Just arrived in U.K.

I have just been notified by Hattons that the Bachmann LMS 4F has arrived in the U.K. and is in stock.  I'll post some photos when mine arrives, unless of course, someone beats me to it.
 
Terry

Dang!  Better get mine ordered then.


 John
I think you jumped the gun a bit Terry, Hatton's will have them this week.  Mine is now pre-ordered.  Slightly annoying is that Hatton's don't list a 21 pin decoder.  I ordered a Lenz Silver from DCC Supplies.  As an aside to those in North America, I checked Tony's Trains who also stock the Lenz decoder.  However USPS shipping is $25!!! - to Canada.:shock:  Shipping from DCC Supplies is 4 pounds - go figure.:roll:Oh, and they deduct VAT.
John

You're are right John.  Their newsletter says they are due to arrive soon.  I must have misunderstood the email to me.  As you were everybody! :oops:
 
Terry

I've just had a look at these on Hattons website, can anyone tell me if these ran north of the border and if so roughly when.

They look very good and I feel a couple coming on shed.  

Toto.

Got a note from Hatton's, they're in now Terry.
Toto, 4Fs were very common on the LMS network being the standard freight loco for many years before the 8F came along.  I believe the Bachmann model depicts a Midland built loco with RH drive (and Deeley tender).  The Hornby model is of an LMS built example with LH drive (paired with the Fowler tender, some of which came from scrapped Austin 7s).  The Hornby model body is made with Airfix tooling from more than 30 years ago and has oversize splashers.  A friend of mine has one and it does run very nicely.
John

I want a chassis from one of these to go under a Wills/SEF SR Q class 0-6-0. I may have to wait a few years for the prices to drop on the second-hand market, though!

Apparently, my 4F is in the post to me.  You have a choice of tenders.  Mine has a Fowler tender. (Mind you, I haven't got a clue as to the differences.)  Can anyone enlighten us as to when, where and why the 4F's ran with different tenders?

 

Terry

My guess, Terry, is that those built before 1923 (ie under MR ownership) had Deeley tenders (class 3835).  LMS built examples had Fowler tenders. It's always possible that there were exceptions.  The Fowler tender version was numbered from 4027.  A batch of 45 of these were even built under Stanier (under protest) in 1937.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Fowler_Class_4F


 My earlier comment about Fowler tenders coming from Austin 7s is probably wrong (that's what you get for believing hearsay), since these were built starting 1929 and not withdrawn until BR days.


 A truly excellent reference for these is:  Loco Profiles 10 and the pictorial supplement.


http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1905184352.php 
http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1905184379.php


 John

Thanks very much John.
 
Terry

The  4F has arrived and a very nice model it is too.  Nice backhead detail. On first look only one minor criticism.  Like the previous 3F, the brakes on the tender do not line up with the wheel treads.  However, the brakes are separate mouldings, unlike the 3F brakes which were part of the tender chassis moulding.  All in all, not bad for £76 which equates to just over a tank of petrol.  Unlike the petrol, the loco will still be with me in a couple of weeks.  Sadly, I can't take any photos, as promised earlier, as I can't find my camera.  She who must be obeyed, proclaimed that we will be having a fitted bedroom installed this week and yours truly has been decorating for the last two weeks.  Hence no modelling, and sleeping alone on an inflatable bed (the wife having grabbed the bed in the spare room).  My model railway shed is full-up with the double-bed and outgoing bedroom furniture so I can't even escape there to get on with the current layout.  Some of us were born to suffer…
 
Terry

Sorry John, but the original tenders allocated to the Midland 4F's were a mixture of Johnson, new or second-hand 3,250, and 3,500 gallon examples which were mostly replaced in later life by Fowler 3,500 gallon of either beaded, non-beaded, flush rivet, or snap-head rivet types some with, some without, tender cabs. A mine-field, it's best to get photo evidence on which ever example you want to model.

As the LNWR 0-8-0's were known as 'Duck-8's' at Bescot, the 4F's were also known as 'Duck-6's', with a tendency to 'waddle' which became more pronounced as their wheel bearings became more worn.:) 
Other good sources of info;-
June 1995 issue of Modelling Railways Illustrated (Vol.2,No.10)
November 2001 issue of Model Rail (No.37)
Locomotives Illustrated Number 31 - Midland 0-6-0's.

If I'd actually read the reference I posted I might have known that, Paul.  Yes, certainly a minefield.

Anyway, got a note from Hatton's today - mine's on its way, should take about a week.

John

Edit - I took the time to review Loco Profiles.  Whew!  A bewildering variety of tenders for this class.  3851, the Bachmann model, was built in Nov 1917 and paired with a MR "Old Standard - flush rivet beaded" tender, according to the book.  By this is meant the altered Deeley/Johnson 3250 gal tender, as best as I can make out.  I count 13 different tender types.  We are also told that 3851 lost its' tail rods in 1934.  Comparing the picture to contemporaneous locos (I couldn't find a pic of 3851), I can't fault the model (although I daresay someone will).  43851 was withdrawn in March 1952. 
 
The first engine in the class, 3835, was built in 1911 and the last MR built example was 4026 in 1922.  The last 4F built was 4606 in March 1941. 

Probably too much information. 

My Bachmann model is numbered 43924.
 
Terry

The Hatton's caption says it is "preserved" condition, whatever that means.  3924 was built in Oct 1920, got its' BR number in Feb 1949 and was withdrawn June 1965.

When built it had the MR 3250 gal tender, same as 3851.  The model has a Fowler 3500 gal tender.  If I'm reading the book correctly that happened in 1951.  I found a picture of 43963 looking exactly like the model (incl tender) except for the filth.

Hope this is helpful.

The internet has its' place when researching things like this but there is still no substitute for books IMO, and for people like Bob Essery et al.

John

Thanks very much John.  As I'm modelling circa 1960ish, the model fits neatly into my plan.
 
Terry 

Glad to help, it's nice to have so much detail in one place.

I think the early 60s are probably the most interesting era - you can run pre nationalisation steam with BR standards and those first generation diesels are very attractive (not to those who had to work on them).  You also had the pre nationalisation infrastructure mostly there too.  All to be swept away in the next few years in the modernisation and rationalisation craze (which, to be fair, had to be done).


 Having had my fling with the 1960s era club layout, I want to return to mid 30s LMS.


 John

My LMS version just arrived in the post.
It looks a nice model.
Also I am looking forward to the 1F 0-6-0 tank loco.
I think its due in October.

I recently bought the 3F 0-6-0 and G2 0-8-0 both excellent models.
Gradually getting a nice new loco stable together.
Now back to track laying so I can run them.

regards,

Derek

Ditto Derek, I have the G2 and even a cobbled up 1F (from a Hornby Jinty body, Crownline kit and Bachmann Jinty chassis), but eagerly awaiting Bachmann's rendition.  Should get my 4F today or tomorrow.
I too, need a layout.:roll:

John

Hi Toto

According to Peter Tatlows Highland locomotives, in April 1944 the LMS Northern Div. had
9 in Perth - 4187/93, 4234/51/98, 4314/17/23/28
and 1 in Inverness - 4258

November 1935 had 5 in Perth North

Hope that helps - excuse provided, if they can get lost as far as Inverness, then that should cover most of the country - ex NBR excluded.

Paul

Found the camera at long last.






Terry