GWR/LMS OO Gauge DCC RR&Co

Thanks guys

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Very nice, John.  :thumbs  Just like being there.

I like those pipes.  What are the coppery looking ones?

They are bits of copper tubing that I cut up (badly) many years ago………….probably worth a bob or two now:hmm


Glad you liked the Pannier Dave…….took that shot just for you

Now for something completely different:


BACK TO THE GWR

That should have reduced (refined) the viewing audience somewhat.

 The 0-6-0T pannier is one of the iconic elements in a  GWR layout……. and both I (in Canada) and Dave (in Australia) have  been banging on about it for long enough ……………but once you start wandering into the highways, by-ways and definitely BLTs of the GWR… the iconic loco is Collet's 0-4-2T




(note the the engine driver has been replaced by a computor chip!)

These locos were specifically designed by Collet for working on GWR's numerous branch lines…… and in particular to push and pull Autocoaches





Clearly no GWR Branchline should be without one




And therein lies the problem……..they are lousy runners. They were  introduced by Airfix 30-40 years ago…..taken over by Dapol and then  Hornby……….and in the intervening years, apart from  the motor, nothing has changed……they are still lousy runners. OK in a  straight line but interrupt the power however briefly and that is that

I put a DCC Concepts chip with Stay Alive Capacitor in…….squeezed it into the cab……the fireman had to go as well. There was some improvement but not enough………it still stalled far too frequently.

In the end I took the photographs and then subbed the 14xx for a Pannier and all was well for a while.

Then I discovered that Panniers were not converted to Autocoach working until the days of British Rail!

Now I know that my immediate Canadian audience cannot , assuming they  come into the railway room, tell the difference between a Steam Engine  and a Diesel let alone a 57xx and a 14xx. Nevertheless I worried and worried and eventually, against my better judgement, bought a new Hornby 14xx from the June Release

Out of the box, on my DC test track it ran very well……..nice slow crawl……….but I have seen this movie before.

Fortunately TCS introduced their K series of Keep Alive Onboard chips……………alleged to keep a loco running for 20 seconds after power is cut off.

I had hoped to get the chip into the cab but they are rather bulky …..and there were no crew left to jettison.

 So I decided to permanently couple the loco to the Autocoach and put the chip in the luggage compartment


.
Note the lump of lead in the cab (moving the chip made this possible)

I have tried to conceal the chip with passengers but I am afraid it does still look like something from a science fiction movie.

However…..it runs and runs and runs…just like the Ever Ready bunny……..nothing deters it………….and believe me some of the branch track is pretty bad.

Not sure how much is the new Loco and how much the Keep Alive……….but my money is on the Keep Alive! (no connection)
 
Next time…….it gets even better!

A few years ago I was going to add a Hornby version of the class to my collection,  as I could remember the last ones at Southall shed, but changed my mind when I saw traction tyres, I thought they'd updated from the old Airfix ideas, but no, - yuk - no oil based materials on my rail tops thank you.

John,

How do you intend to wire  the 14xx to the autocoach ?

You may wish to consider  Micro connectors as I did for my 14xx -  it gives you the flexibility to switch locos and carriage rather than having them permanently joined.

This was a shot previously posted on Not North Road - when the leads are painted black they blend in very well.

[user=1151]bike2steam[/user] wrote:

A few years ago I was going to add a Hornby version of the class to my collection,  as I could remember the last ones at Southall shed, but changed my mind when I saw traction tyres, I thought they'd updated from the old Airfix ideas, but no, - yuk - no oil based materials on my rail tops thank you.

hi Paul

i noticed you mentioned Southall shed.i was born and bred in Southall and i know this is a long shot but i'm trying to find out what shunters were used in the early sixties as i can't remember.they were definately diesels though.

apologies to John for hijacking thread.

[user=1033]spurno[/user] wrote:

hi Paul

i noticed you mentioned Southall shed.i was born and bred in Southall and i know this is a long shot but i'm trying to find out what shunters were used in the early sixties as i can't remember.they were definately diesels though.

apologies to John for hijacking thread.

With Old Oak close at hand, anything goes you might say, locos from both depots covered each others operations, if one was short of locos it would call on the other, things became more interesting at the end of '63 with the reallocation of the last 4575 class prairies, and the run down of Old Oak in'64 saw it's remaining fleet at Southall.. But try this;-

http://brdatabase.info/sites.php?page=depots&subpage=locos&id=486

thanks for your help Paul.great site.

[user=1151]bike2steam[/user] wrote:

A few years ago I was going to add a Hornby version of the class to my collection,  as I could remember the last ones at Southall shed, but changed my mind when I saw traction tyres, I thought they'd updated from the old Airfix ideas, but no, - yuk - no oil based materials on my rail tops thank you.

I dont disagree with you Paul…………..in my cases one of life's many compromises. You can, I believe, get an ultrascale (?) wheel set but price and justifiable doubts about my skill level put me off.

I did try bullfrog snot but wasnt too happy with the result. But I have however a few of these locos over the years and I am cannibalising a tyre free wheel set


gdaysydney wrote:

John,

How do you intend to wire  the 14xx to the autocoach ?

You may wish to consider  Micro connectors as I did for my 14xx -  it  gives you the flexibility to switch locos and carriage rather than  having them permanently joined.

I remembered your thread Dave and intended to try it and then got going with the soldering iron!!!  They are just hard wired, twisted together and painted black………….sounds dodgy but works ok I have quite a few split chassis tender locos set up that way

To conclude my 14xx saga:

A 14xx and single autocoach is something of a GWR modelling stereotype  but does reflect common practice on the prototype. Less usually seen on  models is the practice of strengthening the single coach at peak times  either with a standard coach…..in which case the loco had to run round  at the terminus or more usually with a second autocoach. In the latter  case the loco could either push and pull the rake of 2 connected  autocoaches or it would be inserted between them…..the fireman would  stay in the loco but the driver would move from one driving compartment  to the other…..

I have a feeling that the GWR generally favoured the former approach but I have always fancied the idea of a loco sandwich:





The plan was to run this on the upper level while the single autocoach  shuttled on the branch below……..but that assumed I could get a  second 14xx to work


Prior to my success with the Keep Alive I had attempted to put  additional pick ups on the coach ……unfortunately I am not very  mechanical and it was singularly unsuccessful so the idea got binned  although the connecting holes drilled in the coach and loco body were a  constant visible reminder.

Recently I chanced on a thread on RMWeb where a guy explained how he  made his pick ups by tightly winding brass wire round a drill bit to  create additional spring.



WARNING…….the next shot is not for the fainthearted……..I make no  pretence at having prototypical underpinnings and I am a qualified  bodger (first class)











But it works

Its repeated on the second bogey and the wires led through the coach  floor (the second coach has no pickups and is coupled in the normal way)



Passengers aren't too comfortable……particularly as I used their legs as pegs for the cable

Note the lump of lead at the far drivers end……….pushing these  coaches regularly over facing points can be problematic but this and  careful speed adjustment has eliminated that problem.

The chip (oops Decoder) is in the luggage compartment again






I have rather over egged the pudding here…….its a recycled Lenz Gold with their version of Keep Alive

Recycled…….because I finally gave up on my Dean Goods 0-6-0…….  another must have for any self respecting GWR layout………but another  ex Dapol Hornby Special……….Tender Drive with traction tyres  galore……a lousy runner and even when it does run it looks so  unrealistic with the tender pushing the loco………I tried everything  to get my Dean to go….to no avail…..finally as a last resort I  bought this gold chip….cost far more than the original price of the  loco…….it did effect some improvement but the chip and capacitor are  so big I had to remove weight from the loco so the wheels had no  traction…….and so on……………….I digress

                                                                                        


Back to the loco sandwich……the chip with the pick ups work  superbly……..and this was an older 14xx which previously didnt run  well at all. Admittedly I stripped it down and cleaned the loco pick ups  and crammed in a load of lead in the cab

Of course my dilemma now…..is it the gold chip or is it the pickups?  Should I put in a cheaper decoder and use the Gold somewhere  else…….should I add pick ups to the Branch Autocoach I wrote about  in the first post??

Decisions decisions……..I guess now they are both working so smoothly  I am reluctant to change anything………although I am, as I said, tempted to swap  the traction tired wheels for a set cannibalised from yet another non  working 14xx

For now though, I can sit back and watch both shuttling back and forth






The Ruabon autotrain heads into Granby over the viaduct while below, on  the branch, the Mold train rattles over the canal bridge on its way to  Cynwydd 


   

John, what you cannot see from the normal viewing angle, cannot cause anyone an heartburn.

As you say "it works"  and that is the important thing.

It looks upside down to me but I know nuffin about railways.

Very interesting read, thanks, John.

An elegant solution, John.  :thumbs

I hesitate to use the expression 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks'….. but these last few posts gainsay that old saw!

Werry interesting, John, well done.


Doug

Looks ok to me too John, is just two wheel pickup ok?

 

Phil

I'm still doing a bit of catching up John, having been in and out of the UK like a boomerang over the last month, and what a lot I've missed !!!

I love that bolster train and, in spite of what you say, I think the empty wagons are very attractive and not a bit "mundane".  With the steel on board, you can almost hear the 3F fireman cursing the shipbuilding industry ………………:lol::lol:  Superb shots and a wonderful story. :thumbs

Knowing the trouble I have with my Panner, I can imagine Collet's offering is a real PITA !!!  It might perform better had it had a fully sprung chassis with all wheel pick-up but then it would have cost a King's ransom.

You are far too modest regarding your MechE skills my friend !! :It's a no no  That autocoach with the additional pick-ups is brilliant.  Whilst I accept it wasn't your idea, it was your execution and it looks great added to which, I really envy you your ability to squeeze decoders into the tiniest of spaces ………..and then wire them up !!! :shock::shock::shock:

Just one thought regarding the pick-ups……………:roll::roll:  From the photo, it looks as if the autocoach wheels are 3 hole discs …….:hmm  The pick-up ends (where they rub on the wheel) are not curved in any way so, if they should displace for any reason when running backwards (or forwards), could the end of the pick-up jam into one of the holes ?  I don't know how rigid the "spring" is but I'd imagine there could be some "bounce". 

But then I presume you've been running them for some time without mishap so I'm seeing danger where there isn't any - yet again ………..:oops::oops::oops:

Thanks for the feedback guys


[user=753]Phil.c[/user] wrote:

Looks ok to me too John, is just two wheel pickup ok?
Phil

There is a pickup on one wheel set of each bogey and of course the pick ups on the loco itself

Petermac wrote:

I'm  still doing a bit of catching up John, having been in and out of the UK  like a boomerang over the last month, and what a lot I've missed !!!

I love that bolster train and, in spite of what you say, I think the  empty wagons are very attractive and not a bit "mundane".  With the  steel on board, you can almost hear the 3F fireman cursing the  shipbuilding industry ………………:lol:

Welcome back Peter!…………..hope you are nearing the end of your commuting. Glad you liked the train…..the 3F is a lovely little loco.

Before I forget, in a previous post, you asked about the "Iron Ore" that I used in the hoppers. Its Woodland Scenics……out of the packet its pretty garish so I toned it down with acrylic washes. Having been looking at some photos recently I think it should be a bit chunkier but its far better than the plastic that came fitted to some of the hoppers

Knowing the trouble I have with my Panner, I can imagine Collet's offering is a real PITA !!!  It might perform better had it had a fully sprung chassis with all wheel pick-up but then it would have cost a King's ransom.  

I have thought of this but its super expensive and I doubt my ability do all the assembly. I will eventually replace the traction tyred wheels with surplus…………….having done all this I reckon its a near certainty Hornby will announce a retooled 14xx and autocoach on Dec 17th:hmm  They must have made a fortune on this loco virtually untouched over 30+ years

Just one thought regarding the pick-ups……………:roll::roll:  From the photo, it looks as if the autocoach wheels are 3 hole discs …….:hmm  The pick-up ends (where they rub on the wheel) are not curved in any way so, if they should displace for any reason when running backwards (or forwards), could the end of the pick-up jam into one of the holes ?  I don't know how rigid the "spring" is but I'd imagine there could be some "bounce".     But then I presume you've been running them for some time without mishap so I'm seeing danger where there isn't any - yet again ………..:oops::oops::oops:  

Good Point………ask me how I know:twisted::twisted::twisted:…………….I had to a certain amount of adjustment…….but touch wood it has shuttled back and forth without mishap…….the wire as a result of the spring is quite rigid but it can be fiddled with to minimise drag

.having done all this I reckon its a near certainty Hornby will announce a retooled 14xx and autocoach on Dec 17th:hmm  They must have made a fortune on this loco virtually untouched over 30+ years  

……I have been waiting for this for a long time. As you suggest,  perhaps half the forum should start building/modding stuff to make of a  train sandwich, and 'Shazzom'!!! Hornby will do a new re-tooled offering  in various liveries and  an alternative 517 Class too.

And then, the  marmalade I made this year will set in the jars in the cellar,

Bisto  will stop walking mud and grass into the house for me to cop the blame,  

the bottle of Glen Cheapo on my sideboard will turn into Bowmore  20-year-old and all this hair will stop growing in my ears

 an, an,  and……I'll manage to get myself off of the 'Tom Champagne' Reader's  Digest Prize draw offer mailing list…..

Still, there is always 2014…….

Poop poop,

Doug

Mr Champagne is still bugging you too is he Doug ? ……………:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

"All I want for Christmas is ……………………………………." :roll::roll::roll:

As always….thanks for the comments guys

I have been building  and posting about Granby III for 5 years  now….

I am now approaching the beginning of the end………..please forgive  the following somewhat self indulgent retrospective……although some  of you guys have been with me for virtually the entire journey


December 2008

Baseboard supports:

 

It has never been as tidy since……………I go to enormous lengths now to avoid shots of the carpet!


December 2009

Lower level  Cynwyd Branch and Storage Yards completed……getting prepared for the canal and duck under




December 2010



Canal…… Viaduct and Satanic Mills






December 2011

Mainline Station and overall roof






December 2012

Goods Warehouse Top Left…………(Bottom right Storage yard TT and Sub Shed May 2011)




Not much space left!







The site of GWR Shed #64 (CNYD)  Croes  Newydd……………………..the real Croes Newydd was sited adjacent  to to Wrexham but I doubt if there will be much resemblance!





This shot shows one of the many issues I have to  sort………….ensuring clearance of the lower level coal lines as  they climb (on the window cill) to join the upper level main line.

More to come……………..now for a quick snifter of Glen Cheapo (love it Doug) to follow the Beaujolais Nouveau which, now the hype of yesteryear has disappeared, was rather pleasant:cheers
 

John, is it the approaching ..... of the beginning of the end.... or the end of the beginning quest:

I think its definitely the beginning of the end in terms of major construction……..there is a famous picture in Canada called the "The last spike" commemorating the completion of the trans continental railroad………..well my last spike moment is approaching………a few weeks from now and there will be no track to be laid.

I see I passed 20,000 hits with the last post which must be something of a milestone:thumbs



Now for something different…………..WHERE IS GRANBY?

From time to time I get asked this. As with most modellers I like to  imagine that the trains arriving at and departing from Granby have come  from, or are going to real locations……….that there is a purpose  for their journey. 10am Birkenhead Woodside to London Paddington sounds  so much better than a roundy roundy passenger train.

I have always worked with an approximate location……. Wrexham in  North Wales……. but as the layout grew and the trains I can run  multiplied I have to confess I got somewhat confused…….destinations  kept changing and some routes were more than a little unrealistic.

Clearly some form of plan with fixed parameters was required. I have  always admired John Flann's "Little Hintock" layout, not least because  it features a quite delightful little sketch map of the area. John Flann was formerly of this parish and I believe his layout is still viewable……if not he has a thread on RMWeb

A few posts back I was muttering about this and John very kindly offered  to do a sketch map of Granby for me…………..there then followed a  delightful exchange of emails with my near neighbour……about 2000  miles to the East. Two elderly gentlemen earnestly debating  whether the line from Bidston Dock was operated by the CLC/LNER (it was)  or whether the GWR had a direct line from Chester to Warrington ( it  did).

It was actually a lot of fun delving through our respective reference  books and very interesting to learn how complex and intricate the  railway network actually was just after WWII.

As a result of our research, Granby remains on the edge of what was left  of the North Wales Coalfield but somehow incorporates some of the  characteristics of both Chester (to the north) and Ruabon (to the  south). The most obvious departures from real life is the GWR/LMS Joint  line from Chester through Granby to Shrewsbury and major liberties with  stations on the old Cambrian Ruabon-Barmouth line and its fictional  branch connection

So here is the result……….
  



  Hope this helps those of you following the thread to work out where the trains are heading


Many many thanks to John for taking so much time on my behalf and producing such a believable plan.