Build quality (or lack of).

Just a moan really, after returning to the hobby to find my
memories of Hornby build quality not as they were!


I've had two locos strip their plastic drive cogs, almost
the instant, that I introduced them to the track.

Of course, I'd modified them prior to running, for the inclusion of a DCC
decoder. This precludes my returning them to my retailer and I must send them
back to Hornby for repair. The first one I sent took a three week turnaround
but was returned nicely repaired. I'm now faced with a repeat performance with
a loco that I had delivered today.

I'll have to set up a DC test track so that I can do a shakedown before fitting DCC!


I can't understand why they insist on using plastic drive
gears! I'm not expecting a long lifespan for these engines.



Are Bachmann engines built the same way?

Hi Ted,
The only comparison I can make between Hornby and Bachmann is that,
Feel the difference in weight between two identical models of loco ?
That has to tell you something, I know who will get my pennies in the future

George

Whilst Bachmann are not totally without their problems, I've always preferred them to Hornby which, very often, seem like "toy trains".  Their choice of plastic colours for their wagons is rather garish.  Their coaches are usually good but expensive now.

The guarantee situation is a big problem for those with DCC only layouts.  How can you run them in before fitting a decoder ?  I think this situation also applies to DCC Ready models where all you need to do is plug and play.  Doing so would also invalidate the guarantee.

You need a fairly large circle of DC track to run them in properly.  Minimum 2nd radius curves and leave them to trundle round for 30 minutes in each direction …….you must be kidding !!!  That's another 6ft square layout ………………:shock::shock:

Having said that, I recently purchased a Bachmann sound fitted Class 25.  The sound is good but the timings are all to cock.  The loco starts to move a good two seconds before the air brakes are released !!!  I understand they had a batch of these with this problem.  Returning stuff from France isn't as easy as "popping down to the local shop". :twisted:

"The train now leaving Peter's Station has left".

I had wanted to help keep an iconic British company going. However, looking at everything I have bought from them,  there is the dreaded "Made in China" stamped underneath, so what's the point?

I searched high and low for one of their train packs "The Last Single Wheeler" and found it for just under £120 delivered.  When I opened it I found the front bogie was detached from the loco, fortunately the screw was still in the box and I was able to sort it.
 For a so called "Special Edition" the level of detail is very poor and as Peter said, very "toy like". The coaches don't even have moulded plastic seats in them! 120 pounds is a significant amount and for it to then strip its gears has left me rather miffed.

Oh well, at least I now have an excuse to try out some Bachmann locos!

As far as their steam loco range is concerned, the Hornby 'super detail' range is the best, the skew-wound 5 pole motor chassis are more efficient, responsive and powerfull than Bachmann, plus the added bonus of tender pick-ups which I have to add to most of my Bachmann locos. To me, on a layout, an excellent chassis is more important than any thing else, although out of the box, Bachmann locos look better, that's not that important as they get weathered anyway ;-). 

 Looking forward to the up, and coming Bachmann Stanier mogul - with tender pick-ups, so as to replace my 3, rather ancient, kit built versions. 

I think that Bachmann build for two markets - us in the UK where only we use the locos and rolling stock that we did or do, and the USA where there is a far wider demand not just for the products, but also the quality.

 Here in the UK you have just a hand full of manufacturers plying for our custom, whereas in America manufacturers are coming out of the woodwork and what they don't cater for, the Japanese will, so Bachmann have to be on their toes and it's much like their O30 Spectrum range where David at Tower Models, the largest importer, once told me that he only gets it on an 'if and when' basis while it's flooding the USA market no sooner than the paint has dried!

So, who gets the best deal, us who buy by the hundreds, or those that buy by the thousands? and when did you last see a  Japanese brass built Pannier tank, or a plastic built Jinty?

Anyway, Hornby are now made in China so what do they know about Ashburton!!!!

Allan.

Both Bachmann & Hornby have been made in China for  quite a few years now and Kader who owns Bachmann ,also bought Sanda Kan, the factory that produced Hornby.

Personally, I don't give Hornby a second look.  Bachmann every time for me. 

Ted, regarding the stripped plastic gears.  I'm sure that you have some protection here under the law. (Presumably Scottish law is similar to English law in respect of Consumer Law).  If the item is not fit for the intended purpose, which clearly the plastic gears are not, you may have some recourse for action.  I doubt if Hornby's warranty conditions userp the law. I guess this will only be of use to you if Hornby actually charged you for the repairs.  If they have you might seek advice from your local Citizens' Advice Bureau with a view to reclaiming your money.

Terry

Aye, but I've scuppered myself by modifying the locos to fit DCC. Hornby are fine about repairing them, at least they were last time, it's just a pain for it to happen again to another new loco.

I agree, that having plastic gears, certainly qualifies them as "not fit for purpose" though!

I could be wrong (often am) but most model locos have plastic or delrin type gears. Have done for yrs.

 I model USA and every loco I have bought for the last 30 yrs have all had plastic type gears.
Athearn, Proto 2000, Bachman etc.

 I have repaired Hornby, Bachman ( GB) for other modelers all with plastic type gears.

 With exception of the pinion gear on the motor.

 Cheers

 Ian

Yes I agree with  Ian, worm gears are normally metal but the gear on axles, etc are normally plastic/delrin.

The old Ringfield motors used plastic gears for all of them.



The early Proto USA outline did have a plastic/delrin  gear on drive axles that split horizontally causing the teeth to open out & give a clicking sound but that soon got fixed with a stronger plastic/delrin mix.

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

The guarantee situation is a big problem for those with DCC only layouts.  How can you run them in before fitting a decoder ?  I think this situation also applies to DCC Ready models where all you need to do is plug and play.  Doing so would also invalidate the guarantee.

You need a fairly large circle of DC track to run them in properly.  Minimum 2nd radius curves and leave them to trundle round for 30 minutes in each direction …….you must be kidding !!!  That's another 6ft square layout ………………:shock::shock:

Having to run locos in on DC before fitting DCC decoder is a myth.

 Run the loco in yes but fit the decoder then run loco in. The motor actually receives DC voltage from the decoder.

 How do you run in a new OEM loco on DC  that is DCC fitted?

 Cheers

  Ian

Petermac- I am sure fitting a decoder via the "plug and Play" method  would not invalidate the guarantee  as the body has to come off anyway to lubricate it as the Instruction sheet indicates - Bachmann sheets tell how to remove the body and even have the method of installing a decoder.
Running in on DC is only a recommendation. And as Ian said, the motor gets DC anyway from the decoder.

I wasn't suggesting running the loco in on DC - only if it arrives as a DC loco. :roll:

i.e. If you buy a DC loco, run it in on DC BEFORE fitting a decoder.  If you buy a DCC loco then of course, you can only run it in on DCC.

What I meant was that "tinkering" with the loco invalidates the guarantee. You may be right Sol in that simply removing the body to plug in a decoder wouldn't effect the guarantee - provided you could get the body off easily ……….;-)  Many of them, for my experience,  can be quite difficult to remove. :???:

The worm gear and axle cog on these two appear to have just melted. The plastic they are made from is that softer stuff, rather than a hard variety.
One engine wasn't dcc ready, so involved a wire cut and re-solder. The other needed a hole cutting in the body as there was no room for the decoder.
So bang goes the warranty, at least with the retailer.

Ted, are you saying the worm gear is plastic as well? What locos are they?



I find it hard to believe you had to cut a hole in the body - Max fitted a Loksound decoder &  speaker into my Hornby Terrier & did not have to cut into the body to fit the decoder



http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=3832&forum_id=52

I empathise with you on the matter of DC on a DCC layout for running in. I over came this issue by buying a cheap DC controller and plugging it in to the track input on place of the DCC supply feed. (Both are on 4mm connectors).

The DCC accessory decoders have their own separate PSU and the reverse loop unit is on an isolation switch. So hey presto a DCC to DC conversion for running in before fitting decoders. Hope this offers a solution;

That's what I used to do - the problem is, you have to take all your chipped locos off the layout …..a bit of a PITA if you have more than a couple or so…….:???:

Peter, why not buy a rolling-road to run-in your locos?  I have a DCC Concepts one which can be used for either DCC or DC.
Terry