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Petermac
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I did start a thread on the previous forum but, when it went down, all was lost (fortunately !!)

Having studied comments on the forum, I've had to have a slight re-think !! As ever, time, cash and space just won't permit me to build the complete East Coast main line on my workmate !!

The basic station plan - all I've roughly planned up to now - will remain the same - twin tracks, bay platform and a couple of sidings incorporation goods shed, cattle dock and engine facilities with headshunt - the main difference is that the twin tracks will converge into single track once outside the platform area. My main line has now become a branch line !!

As for the name - I just don't have a clue. I had thought of "Dunnow Junction"; "Whishton Petesworth"; "Petesdream Magna" etc.etc.

Ideas would be gratefully received.

Petermac

Robert
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I like Dunnow Junction but Petesworth could be good, combined with something else.

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have u started the layout or still planing. If not or are what stage are u up to?

Petermac
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Just started Ben but planning is well underway - at least for the 2 initial boards - the station area. Not too sure what will happen at each end of these boards but it is designed to be expanded.

You can see the boards on the baseboard thread.

Petermac

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Can you copy your baseboard post with the pictures into here Petermac? This will keep all your layout information in the one place as well as any appropriate postings you make elsewhere, as in your Baseboard topic. Cheers.

Petermac
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OK Bob - if I can find out how to do it !!

I presume I just use copy - paste ?

I'll give it a bash.

Petermac

Petermac
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Here's the latest on my baseboards.

Basically, it's a sort of "open-top" with the trackbed being raised 35mm above the sub frame. The idea behind this is that (at some later stage) I want to run at 2 levels. I can therefore drop 1 track by 35mm whilst raising the other by the same amount giving my clearance in half the usual distance.

There will be 2 boards like this - each 5ft x 2ft 6" covering a station. The layout will extend into open countryside on each side - cuttings, tunnels and bridges spring to mind.

The sub frame (glued and screwed) is 70mm x 22mm, the risers are 10mm ply, the track bed is 10mm chipboard and the former at each end of the boards is 15mm ply for added strength at the board joints. As you can see, the 2nd piece of chipboard has yet to be cut and placed. The trackbed is screwed to the 10mm ply riser and should be self-supporting between the risers so that point motors etc. can be fixed/accessed below without too much difficulty.

Petermac

Petermac
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Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear !!

What did I forget ? I'll have try to get photobucket to do as I think !!!!





Hope this works !!

Petermac

Petermac
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Try again !!!!!!

Petermac

Robert
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That's great, now we can see your progress right from the bare baseboards in this thread. Thanks for taking the trouble.

Petermac
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Pleasure Bob - I'm only a little embarrassed that all you masters on here should have any interest in my humble offerings !! :oops: :oops:

I've surely got a long way to go and a lot of learning to do but, with all the help on here, it'll gradually take shape.

Petermac

Robert
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Sure it will and if we can stop you making some of the mistakes that we made then that's even better.

Petermac
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I've been playing around with some Peco templates and realised that points take up a huge abount of space !!

The result is, my plan won't fit where I wanted it to ! :oops: :oops:

As ultimately, I don't think space weill be a major problem (within reason), I've decided to extend the planned 10ft station section by a further 5ft board. This should allow me to get my "throat" as I want it without having to use either small radius points or too tight radius curves. If possible, I see flowing lines with gentle curves using no less that med. radius pointwork.

Back to the drawing board but not too bad - I've already thought about what to do with the extra space.

I'd do a track plan but just can't get to grips with the CAD freebies - the scale comes out completely wrong and, as my screen isn't 8ft wide - I can't see what happens to the end of the track off screen !!!!

Back soon.

Petermac

Robert
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Have you tried Dave's DRail Petermac. It's the easiest track software I have ever used.

Petermac
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2nd attempt at photos !!

The "basic" framework before adding the risers for the track bed. As you can see, I learn from the forum and there are 3 holes for all the wiring !!
The track bed "datum" is 3.5cm above the framework. As 1 track rises, the other will fall allowing for a track clearance of 7cm in half the normal length.










Hope it works !!

Petermac

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Oh blast - sorry I forgot to re-size !!!!

Petermac

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Can these over-size photos be deleted Mod. then I can re-post at the right size?

:oops: :oops: :oops:

Petermac

phill
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if you look on the thread with the photo's you will see edit in the top right corner, this allows you to re do your thread, so yea click edit and delete and then do what you want to do.
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No need for me to answer that then :!: :!: :roll:
Cheers Phill :!: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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:oops: :oops: sorry Jeff, should of left that to you :oops: :oops:
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Petermac
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Thanks Jeff and Phill - right size now.

Petermac

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Just to show that I am of some use, I've added your text in the correct place and deleted it from the above post, Petermac.

hope it's in the right place :!: :!: :!: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Petermac
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Gwent Rail wrote:Just to show that I am of some use, I've added your text in the correct place and deleted it from the above post, Petermac.

hope it's in the right place :!: :!: :!: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Thanks Jeff - it looks much "tidier" now. :wink: :wink:

Petermac

Petermac
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The Track Plan at last !!

Just a sketch but something like the final effort.






Comments/critical or otherwise would, as always, be gratefully received.

Heaven knows, I need all the help I can get !!!! :wink: :wink: :wink:

Petermac [/img]


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Reference your posting on the Padstow girder bring thread where would you propose placing the girder bridge on your layout plan?

Bryan

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I like the look of all the curved track. Then I noticed the dimensions, wow, very large layout area. You have to duck under somewhere to get inside?

Wayne

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nice size layout,plenty of scope to add extras as and when,
looks like you have a reverse loop,top right corner,or am i
mistaken?
:? :? :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)

Petermac
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Bryan wrote:Reference your posting on the Padstow girder bring thread where would you propose placing the girder bridge on your layout plan?

Bryan


Bryan - the left hand side of the layout is where I propose to put me "bridge" section. The baseboard may be dropped below the normal "datum minus 35mm" here to accomodate either a viaduct or bridge like Padstow. It will be a scenic/river crossing area.

Petermac

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owen69 wrote:nice size layout,plenty of scope to add extras as and when,
looks like you have a reverse loop,top right corner,or am i
mistaken?
:? :? :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)


Owen - I THINK you're right !! :? :? Not too sure. The track from the bay platform (the branchline) climbs a 1 in 45 gradient whilst the doubled mainline falls at the same rate enabling me to cross over somewhere near the tunnel entrance - if my maths are correct !!!

The link from these double mainlines to the branch will, I'm sure, create a reverse loop. I'll have to swat up on the electrics :roll: :roll:

Petermac

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Most of the track has been laid at the right hand station throat as shown.
Some of it is second hand and has been painted before.










As you view the "down the line" shot, the left hand track terminates in the bay platform and the double slip is in the middle of the goods yard with the track off to the right leading to the proposed cattle dock - well away from the platforms !! I'm not too bothered about the missing sleepers etc. in the goods yard as most of this area will be either paved or tarmac for vehicular access so you'll only see the rail tops.

Beyond, on the next board, we start the gradients taking the branch line over the mainlines.

The foreground is where the 2nd station board and remaining goods yard will be. The formers to the left will carry by a high retaining wall with a road and, hopefully, some low relief building along the backscene.

Petermac

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Wayne Williams wrote:I like the look of all the curved track. Then I noticed the dimensions, wow, very large layout area. You have to duck under somewhere to get inside?

Wayne


I propose to have a lifting/removable/hinged section somewhere on the left hand scenic area Wayne although the boards will be fairly high. It's only for me and I do like to view things from near track level.

Regarding dimensions, it is a project designed to see me out !!! and we have a huge unused loft area here with loads of headroom. We're currently waiting to have half the roof renewed (beetles do eat wood here in France and over the last couple of hundred years or so, they've had their feast on our roof timbers !!!), because of this, I still don't have a permanent home for it so I'm building it on a modular basis board by board - just hope it all fits together :roll: :roll: :roll: Hence the shots taken on tressles in the garage - doors closed because it is a filthy wet day. Sorry for the lighting and rather grubby surroundings - hardly professional !!

Petermac

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Petermac

At long last you are revealing all :shock: After months of anticipation we see not only a track plan but the start of a layout. Fantastic another layout begins to take shape on the forum. I like the look of the sweeping nature of your design and, unless I am mistaken, you seem to be using large radius points. Thanks for showing us your efforts, and given the size of this project there's much more to come.

Great stuff :) :)

Bob(K)

phill
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Well done mate, you got some track laid WAHAAAAY. Look forward to more on this.
Phill

Petermac
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Novice & Phill - I'm sure I don't need to remind you what a thrill it is to have some track down !!! It's been a long time and, after reading various threads on this forum, I've changed my mind so many times I struggle to remember which scale I'm working in :roll: :roll: :roll:

It's just fantastic to have made a start and, once I've got another board done (the framework is ready for "topping out") I may just be able to run a loco back and forth - yes guys, "testing" is on the way for Petermac :lol: :lol:

I've tried to use large radius points Novice - I love them and that's one of the reasons I've had to do so much re-planning. I've got the space so why not ? Some will, inevitably, be medium radius but, for the main lines, I hope I can manage everything in large radius. Once I have a proper "home" for it all, I can really get going - with the "Boss's" permission naturally !! Already, she's complaining that I spend all my time in "chat rooms" or playing in the garage but then, we all have our cross to bear and anyway, she's off to Australia to see her son in 10 days time (we're both 2nd time around :wink: :wink: ) so get ready for more postings !!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Petermac

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Great start Petermac, look foward to following developments.
Good luck :!: :!:

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Petermac, let me get this straight, you are building your entire layout in sections in the garage, until your layout room is finished. Once that happens you will move everything into the layout room, assemble it together and play.

[size=9](I wonder if i could do that?)

Are you intending to layout all your track on each section beforehand? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Wayne

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I would think a modular approach would be a very good thing, Wayne.

All my baseboards were built in my garage and just plug together using locating dowels and clips. I can therefore take one (or more) baseboards anywhere in the house that I fancy working on them (in theory, at least). It is adviseable to have adjacent baseboard connected when laying track across the joins because it makes alignment a great deal easier. Lay the track straight across the join, fix it in place, then cut it at the baseboard join.

It also means that I can still turn a board upside down to make fitting point motors and wiring, etc, a whole lot easier.

Perry

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That's right Wayne - exactly as Perry says.

I'd have preferred to do it in-situ but, as this isn't now possible (the roof should have been done BEFORE winter but hey guys, this is France !!), I thought about it and remembered seeing Perry's photos of his boards and the dowel connections, I thought "why not"?

Again, exactly as Perry says, I'll build the 2nd board, connect the 2 together, lay short lengths of track across the joint then cut it before separating the boards again. That's why, in my photos, none of the trackwork runs to the end of the board.


The main problems with this system are alignment (I'm nowhere near as accurate as Perry !!) and actually disguising the joint in the scenery. The next "station" board won't be much of a problem because I plan to cover the joint with a "plug-in" over bridge (running from the front of the board to the backscene). The centre line of this bridge will be exactly over the board joint.

Incidentally, I won't move everything into the loft, connect and play when it's all done !! Once all the boards are complete, I'll move everything into the loft, connect it and TEST

Still struggling to name the layout - if anyone has any ideas ?

Petermac

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Petermac, my carpentry skills also leave a lot to be desired :!:
Also like Perry, I've made everything "semi-portable" (well it's moveable if not truly portable :!: )
I've used locating dowels and bolts (like Perry) but have sourced mine from "Red Dog Fasteners", who advertise regularly in Railway Modeller.
These dowels are easier to fit than Perry's, but would not be as accurate as his without the coach bolts.
With both, I've found them 100% reliable.
They come with full instructions, drill sizes needed and clear diagrammes.
As one less than 100% carpenter to another, I would reccomend them to you.

rector
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I'm now onboard and following with great interest, PM. Good photos and plans 8)

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Jeff - thanks for the encouragement regarding the dowels. The red dog ones are the ones I'm after - just wouldn't dare tackle Perry's type :? :? - unfortunately, they seem to have ceased advertising in RM for now and I couldn't remember their name - thanks for saving me looking it up elsewhere :D . I've got all the back issues from last year so will try to dig out their advert.

Thanks for the compliments Tim - always very, very welcome with me !!!!

More to follow soon but got to do a couple of swimming pool repair jobs this week - weather permitting. Might have to wait until [size=9]shhhhhh! - you know who is in Australia.

Petermac

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Over the last few days, whilst the weather has been so foul, I hid in the garage with my tool box playing trains. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The second board has track down and leads just onto the third board. You may recall I'm building it in modular form until the permanant home is ready so I have to make joints at each end of each board to re-connect later.

The 2nd & 3rd boards (to the right of the station throat) incorporate gradients to get the single line branch up over the doubled main lines. The gradients are approx. 1 in 45 - both up and down so I can get cvlearance in half the linear distance. The first 30 cms or so had a 1 in 90 "transition" gradient. The first board is 5ft long and the 2nd only 4ft at the end of which, I've turned through 90 deg. to lead around the corner.

Here's some photos of the gradients:









Petermac

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At the board joints, I've soldered the rails to brass screws to strengthen the joint.

Sorry about the apparent "spottiness" of the photo - don't know what happened - I think it's maybe filings from cutting through the track after it was soldered up.






Petermac

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After cutting the joints, I ran a coach over the joint to make sure it was a smooth crossing - apparently no problems there !!!

You can also make out the branch above the coach climbing as the mains fall - clearance at this point but took it up/down another 10mm just to make certain !!






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The 2 boards showing the lines diverging as the mains drop and the branch climbs away on the left. The mains will eventually be underneath the branch and lead to the "low level" fiddle at the back of the layout. The branch line will be the "scenic" line with maybe a coutry halt before it enters the "high level" dead-end sidings allowing me to have a "valley" section on the other side of the layout - maybe with a viaduct or Brian's Padstow girder bridge- I LOVE bridges/viaducts !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:






Petermac

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This is the silver lining to the bad weather cloud then Petermac. :wink: That's looking really good and will certainly allow a lot of great scenery.

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Petermac

Impressive woodwork and nice sweeping curves. Great to see your layout taking shape.

Bob(K)

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That's right Bob - every cloud has a train shed under it !!! :lol: :lol:

I'm doubly fortunate in that "the Boss" is in Australia although when I glance at the "list" she's left me to do, if I carry on like this, I can see me living in the garage for keeps.............................now, there's a thought !!! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Petermac

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Looks great Peter, really looking forward to seeing this one grow, good luck with ballasting it all :shock: :lol:

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Good work, Petermac. It's lovely and serpentine and will look terrific with scenery.

Mike

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Peter-really looking forward to seeing your layout develop,looks like it will be a good one :D

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Petermac

I have heard there are extremely high winds in france at the moment the worst on record Your house has survived fine but the only unfortunate casualty was the list you wife left it got blown away in the storm. and you cant remember what was written on it.
Its a shame because you gonna have to stay in the garage now and work on the layout. :D :D :D
cheers Brian.W

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Petermac wrote: I can see me living in the garage for keeps.............................now, there's a thought !!! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Great progress on the layout Petermac, and I certainly understand that thought, but do you have an internet connection in the garage? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wayne :lol:

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If and when you have to live in the garge, just one thought. Where is the main's for the electric, if it's in the garge your ok but if its in the house afraid she will off won mate. So if its in the house, then get it put into the garge :wink:
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Well if ever I need a marriage guidance counsellor it won't be Phill. :shock:

Great progress Petermac - love the curves. :D

Les

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Les wrote:Well if ever I need a marriage guidance counsellor it won't be Phill. :shock: .............

Les


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Petermac

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He has to make a stand. Tut giving him a list whilst she is away on holiday or what ever. Thats not fair, railway week for Pete, not a list. Tell her mate, woman get away with far too much :D :D . Got to go the wife is calling me to do the washing up :oops: :D :D
Phill

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Thanks Guys for all your kind comments - very much appreciated - they help me to keep fired up. It can be a little lonely beavering away on your "tod" in a garage with the wind howling and rain blashing down outside - particularly when I have to make my own coffee whilst the "Boss" relaxes in the sun in Oz. !!!

Wayne & Phill, I've checked out the interent possibilities and mains switch in the garage - neither exist at present but both are possible - just in case !!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Thats it mate, u get cracking putting the mains in there. You need a matress and quilt, fridge for the beer and your ok. :D . Then when she come home you say, right i am off for a week, here is a LIST and i see you later bye. Sneak into the garge :wink: , layout be done and dusted in a week, sorted. :D :D :D
Phill

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Oh boy - I reckon I could sell tickets for this one :lol: :lol:

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phill wrote:He has to make a stand. Tut giving him a list whilst she is away on holiday or what ever. Thats not fair, railway week for Pete, not a list. Tell her mate, woman get away with far too much :D :D . Got to go the wife is calling me to do the washing up :oops: :D :D
Phill


Now I laughed at that one !!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh Phill - how are the mighty fallen !!!! They get us all in the end don't they ? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Les wrote:Oh boy - I reckon I could sell tickets for this one :lol: :lol:

Les


Les, believe you me, it would be a walk-over mate................for her :? :?

I'm a real chicken at heart and boy, does she know it - hence the list. I'll have to hide the railway stuff away, cut down a few trees, bruise a few ribs and break a few windows just to show I've done some work...............although I do rather like Bryan W's "high winds" theory :roll: :roll: . Better get back to wiring up the mains switch in the garage and moving the internet socket !!!! :lol: :lol:

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Oh and Phill - I forgot to ask - what's "washing up" ? I've checked and it's not on the list.

Also, can someone help - the list says "eat salad in fridge". Not only am I too big, it's also too bl...y cold in there !! :lol: :lol:

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Paper cups and plates, Petermac - that's the answer :!: :wink:

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Some nice progree pics, The sweeping curves are a real winner

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Thanks John.

Not much progress of late - been doing a bit of wiring - got 2 boards done and tested but the main "station" board is awaiting deliveries from England so I can wire up the isolated sections (for DC operation) and the point circuits for the motors.

Petermac

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I notice it's almost 9 months since anything was added here :oops::oops::oops:!!!  Such is the extreme pressure we Mod's have to bear !!!!!

Anyway, this week I managed to squeeze in a day modelling - weathered a wagon, built a scarecrow and part built an extension to one of the "track" boards for the layout.

The idea is that these narrow boards (45cms deep) will run along the back of the "track" boards and will have the town built on them.  Once built, I won't need access so the extra depth won't matter.

On the original plan, there wouldn't be enough room to have more than low relief buildings behind the tracks and I wanted to build the odd street scene having been impressed with what others have done.

This first board will have a street climbing slightly from the station area and carrying the edge of the town before leading off into open countryside.

These photos show the construction method and what the back row of shops/houses might look like.  The level part of the cross brace formers will carry the street - there will be the low relief buildings alnog the back, the roadway and then, on the edge of the level bit, full relief houses.  The embankment then drops fairly steeply onto the retaining wall above the tracks.







 









The ply that the houses are sitting on at present is just a scrap piece to put them on - it isn't a premanent fixture !!!!!!  The actual street width (including houses) will run to where the formers fall away - it's 30cms.

 

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Petermac

I have just read your thread from start to finish as I had trouble seeing the pics on my little laptop when i was away, and it is great to see the layout growing. I like your woodwork - looks very professional and it is good to see the beginings of the scenery. keep it coming.

Bob(K)

 

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It's looking really good Peter - soon have the embankment in place and excellent woodwork.

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If you have no name for it yet how about "peterworth magna"?

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I like the sound of that Reg.

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I see it's 6 months since I added anything to this thread :shock::shock::shock:  Such is my hectic life !!

Today - as it's Sunday and Pentecost (the French are Catholics, not me),  I'm not working  (at least not elsewhere) so, having completed a couple of jobs for SHMBO, I decided to move those baseboards I had, up into the attic from the garage where they've laid almost forgotten for those 6 months.

It's not that I'm ready to move up there, it's just that I need to create space in the garage so that I can get machinery in and out more easily.

The first thing I noticed is that wood gets heavier as it ages!!! (:cheers:cheers)   At 5ft x 2ft6ins, they're far too heavy and awkward to shunt around.  I'll have to reduce the size and weight of future boards considerably.  I thought about using ply for the framing rather than softwood and a 10mm chipboard trackbed will also have to be re-thought.

The 2nd thing is that a couple of the joints don't match accurately enough for rolling stock to negotiate the join.  That's obvoiusly down to my careless handling of the boards whilst they were in the garage or inaccurate drilling of bolt holes.  I'm not really too worried because I'd already decided to correct some of the bits I didn't like - too tight curves etc. - so I can use this opportunity to re-lay the offending trackwork, but I'll have to be more careful in future.

Next, I've got some 25kg bags of fine gravel (used for swimming pool filters) so I'm going to see if it looks OK as track ballast.  It's the wrong colour but that's not a problem.  When I've tried it out on my "test" track, I'll post some piccies and solicit your opinions.

Finally - how does the name "MAXMILL TOWN JUNCTION" sound to you?  Could also be "MAXMILTON JUNCTION" or something similar.  It will be a junction, it will have a mill (for what I'm not sure yet),  it will be my layout and it seems to roll off the tongue quite reasonably !!

All in all, a useful excercise as it's pointed out some potential problem areas before I've got too far down the road.

Back to the grindstone now Petermac - you've had a long enough break (either that or change religion !!!)  :cry::cry::cry:

Last edited on Sun May 31st, 2009 11:04 am by Petermac

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Look forward to the pics Peter sounds like it wont be long before your up and running as well.

How about Plonkmill, plonk as in wine and mill as in a working mill, :oops:. No ok yours sound better.

Phill

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I had forgotten you even had a layout! :twisted:  I like the name though

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Layout builder :hmm:hmm:hmm:hmm:hmm

I thought you just made high quality wagons, is there no end to this mans skills :roll:

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Alan wrote: Layout builder :hmm:hmm:hmm:hmm:hmm

I thought you just made high quality wagons, is there no end to this mans skills :roll:


Dont forget wine connoisseur as well :thumbs and someone who is expert in asking the not so normal questions :pedal

Phill

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Alan wrote: Layout builder :hmm:hmm:hmm:hmm:hmm

I thought you just made high quality wagons, is there no end to this mans skills :roll:

Flattery Alan, will get you eveywhere !!!! :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

Still haven't painted the wagons, built the layout, started my module, fitted a decoder, wired up any lighting, dug the garden, etc.etc.................................it's all on the list of "Urgent to do's" !!! I might just go and open a bottle of Bordeaux Superior whilst I schedule it all  :cheers:cheers:cheers:cheers:cheers


Last edited on Sun May 31st, 2009 12:15 pm by Petermac

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Petermac wrote: Alan wrote: Layout builder :hmm:hmm:hmm:hmm:hmm

I thought you just made high quality wagons, is there no end to this mans skills :roll:

Flattery Alan, will get you eveywhere !!!! :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

Still haven't painted the wagons, built the layout, started my module, fitted a decoder, wired up any lighting, dug the garden, etc.etc.................................it's all on the list of "Urgent to do's" !!! I might just go and open a bottle of Bordeaux Superior   :cheers:cheers:cheers:cheers:cheers



 

I'm on my way, I'll bring my own glass :pedal:pedal:pedal

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Petermac,
             I sypathise with your struggling with baseboard joins.I've just spent the afternoon wrestling with the joins on 2 baseboards on Perranporth!!! Not my idea of fun
             Regarding a name for your station....how about Milltown Junction??? It rolls off the tongue a bit easier.Or do you want the Mac/Max bit leaving in?

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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How about  MILLMAX JUNCTION

cheers Brian

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......Or Petermill Junction???
:hmm
Cheers,John.B.

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Doesn't have to be personalised John - "Milltown Junction" sounds about right :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

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is the mill on the junction Peter if so how about PETERMAX MILLJUNCTION.

Phill

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I need Tim's axe !!!

I'm starting again. :twisted::twisted:  The boards are far too heavy and awkward, the track bed is too hefty and most of the trackwork is in the wrong place !!!!  I had wanted a station on a curve (a la York) and, to take my Pullman train, it has to have 6ft platforms.  To get that onto the end of what I've started, I'd need the whole house and Liz has said a firm "NO".

The track plan will stay roughly the same but maybe not quite so ambitious.  I'm going to take more care with planning and track laying this time.  Also, the flux I used when soldering seems to be gently digesting the track itself - not a pretty sight !!  I've learnt a lot since then. :roll::roll:

I plan to use ply for the framework, slightly smaller than before and not quite so heavily engineered - do you think 10mm would be strong enough ?  I'll have to stick with my 2'6" depth but they'll only be 4ft long instead of 5ft.

Back to the drawing board. :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

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Forget the layout for a while, and enjoy yourself.................................................................................. weather a wagon, you know you want to :cool wink

It must be the weather, your might not be the only layout to bit the dust, or get Tim's axe :twisted:

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Peter

You should be deciding on the location first worry about the baseboards later

Buy liz a box of chocolates a big bottle of wine and give her a cuddle then say well my dearest where its going to go :lol::lol:

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Forget the wine and chocolates - who wears the trousers in your place?  Just walk in, say "Woman, the layout is going there, I will get a miniature York and that's all there is to it."

Then book your cheap flight to Cornwall and come and stay with us until Liz calms down - a year or so should be enough :roll:

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Christrerise wrote: Forget the wine and chocolates - who wears the trousers in your place?  Just walk in, say "Woman, the layout is going there, I will get a miniature York and that's all there is to it."



Brave or fighting talk that ...... depends how fast you can run, duck or weave. :pedal:thud:mutley

Thinking on Bourdeaux ...... bottle of ............ how about "The Vineyard" as a name for the station?

:chicken

 Cheers,

John

 

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Alan wrote: .........................................

It must be the weather, your might not be the only layout to bit the dust, or get Tim's axe :twisted:

Come on Alan - don't hold back !! :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

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I note all you Cornish guys are full of fighting talk down in the toe of Britain - you haven't met Liz yet have you ?  She's not usually as quiet as this -






unless she's had plenty of these -




:cheers:cheers:cheers:cheers:cheers:cheers

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Petermac wrote: Alan wrote: .........................................

It must be the weather, your might not be the only layout to bit the dust, or get Tim's axe :twisted:

Come on Alan - don't hold back !! :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

Lots of discussions at the moment, as soon as a decision has been made we will inform you all :thud:thud

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I was a bit worried when I read Brian's suggestion.  Wine, chocolates - "Where is it going to go?"

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mmmm yes ,well that makes two of us Max!!!!

 

:mutley:mutley:mutley:cool:

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You could always move the railway outdoors into the garden?? :roll: :hmm

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Is that swimming pool with your cat in your garden Peter?

If so empty it put a roof on the top and hey presto you have a layout room.

cheers brian

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Good idea Dave. But the baseboards are so heavy. If Peter makes too many suggestions Liz might move it for him :mutley

Mike

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MikeC wrote: Good idea Dave. But the baseboards are so heavy. If Peter makes too many suggestions Liz might move it for him :mutley

Mike

Or dump me in the pool - it wouldn't be the first time !!!

Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 06:29 pm by Petermac

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Petermac wrote:
I need Tim's axe !!!

No! No! No!

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Petermac wrote:
The boards are far too heavy and awkward, the track bed is too hefty and most of the trackwork is in the wrong place !!!! 

Situation normal, then :lol::lol::lol:

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rector wrote: Petermac wrote:
The boards are far too heavy and awkward, the track bed is too hefty and most of the trackwork is in the wrong place !!!! 

Situation normal, then :lol::lol::lol:


:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

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What ever happened to the layout, reading most of the thread again, reminded me what a good layout this would have been, it's s real shame that Tim's axe fell on yet another good layout !

Have you started another, maybe even just the building of the baseboards ?

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I've just re-read this thread as well Alan and earlier, I was going great guns.  alas, for the reasons stated, it had to change !!

I haven't done much other than build a few of my "girder" frames and some angle pieces to get me around the corners more gently.  I've also spent a fair bit of time thinking about what can be and what can't.

At present, I don't have much spare time - been doing some work on our letting house during "closed season" so it's ready for our first clients in April.

Other than the module and the wagon project, railway modelling has gone a bit quiet.  It will soon fire up again and then I'll continue the saga !!

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Trams and modules have pushed this thread into the far distance but I've finally made a start on some work in the attic to create a railway area.

The water heaters have been moved - they used to be in the middle of the floor against a roof truss before we renewed half the roof to create a clear span.  I have full head height as far back as the beam on which the strip lights are mounted.  I'm currently constructing the stud wall you see which splits the attic in half - there were some rather awkwardly placed timbers prohibiting me from using the full attic so the other half will continue to be used for storage !!!

Access for sheet material is a problem so I had to cut the plasterboard into 2ft panels before I could get it up there.

The available area will be around 30ft x 10ft although I'll need to work around the 2 water heaters and leave access to them along the stud wall.


I still have to complete the studding beyond the 2nd beam and clad below the horizontal tie-beam on the right.  That section will include a door.




The dark area to the right leads into another attic over the oldest part of the house.  That will be semi-sealed off (we still need access from time to time to check for "things that eat wood" - there are termites and capricorn beetles amongst many other timber pests in this part of France.  I haven't yet decided what to do with that dreadful concrete block wall - paint it or plaster it.  It was added after the war when a DIY "expert" decided to raise the level of the old roof.  Oh - the green stuff you can see apparently dripping down is foam sealer used to fill the joints between the bonded insulated panels used to the roof construction.





Progress continues to be slow due to other calls on my time ..................

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It looks like it's going to be a cosy hide away, Peter.  :thumbs

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It will certainly be a hide away Max but, judging from the photos, there's some way to go before it can claim to be "cosy" !!!

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Something to keep you occupied in your free time then Peter !

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Those roof truss,s certainly look as if they have been made to look " old fashioned ".

Did you get a local artisan to do them ?

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If they are morticed, it's the strongest type of joint - and looks it!

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AUSSIETRAINS wrote: Those roof truss,s certainly look as if they have been made to look " old fashioned ".

Did you get a local artisan to do them ?

Yes John - there are some excellent artisans here.  They're not cheap but, once you get them started, they take some beating for quality work.

The new beams are treated pine (redwood I think) but the original ones were a mix of oak and chestnut, as are all the timbers on the other side of the roof behind that stud wall.  We only had half the roof done because the tie beam had cracked.

The joints are also traditional DD - mortice joints pegged with oak pegs - no nails used here !!!!

If you want to see some "interesting" old timberwork, this is part of our gite timbering (an old barn which we converted).  Basically, trees with the bark stripped off and all mortice joints held with oak pegs. Look at the left hand "tree" - they obviously ran out of straight ones.  If the bend had been a couple of inches more, it would have no strength whatsoever.  They were clever carpenters a couple of hundred years ago !!


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:hi

Well that was a well kept secret Peter!. I joined YMR in November 2009 and this is the first mention of your layout since then (apart from a brief interchange with one of your pals in Jan 2010.....I guess I blinked and missed it).

I knew about the trams, the tube, the scale G (?) loco, the warehouse module and, of course, the bulk purchase of screws. I knew nothing of this.....it is (or was :???:) very impressive. I guess I will be obliged to keep checking in here to keep an eye on your progress. Without applying any pressure I would prefer not to wait another two years:lol:

Kind Regards from a rather damp Vancouver:cheers

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Tempting to put a big layout in that gite, Peter.

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Hi Peter, I know you've talked about a layout before, but like John, I think this is the first time I have seen it.  I certainly like the sweeping curves and the gradients give lots of interest.  Please keep us up to date with any progress you make. 

Let's hope it's not another few years before some more pics appear...;-)

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Recognise the 'old gite' sitting on the left! Trust you are well Peter.

Derek

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From your replies, you all seem to think I work slowly ...........................what's a year or two amongst friends :roll::roll:.

If you look closely at the plasterboard joints John, you can see where many of those screws ended up :lol:.  Hopefully, now I'm on the way to buiding a "home" for Maxmill Junction, all the elements you mentioned will soon find a resting place - except of course, the "G" scale Shay.  That will remain for "summer excursions" in the garden.

I too like long sweeping curves together with large radius points Gordon.   I also love the interest created by the different levels - it was your Eastwood Town that inspired me in the first place. :thumbs

As I have the space to use "easy" grades, I thought why not ?  My problem might be allowing access to those two water heaters.  I wouldn't want to have to dismantle the layout to get them out and, as they are B. heavy, I couldn't lift them over it !!   They are both new but only have a life of around 8 to 10 years here but that might be long enough ..........  I will need to get at them to drain them occasionally - particularly if we go away in deep mid winter.

Hi Derek - good to hear from you again and I hope you enjoyed your trip to visit your son this year.   The "letting season" for the gite is now over (we don't bother in winter) so I'm in the process of closing it up until spring.  That's a job and a half !!!  Fortunately, as we've already let most of next summer, the "Autumn Statement" increase in airport departure taxes won't really effect us for another 12 months - after that, who knows ?  Anybody want to buy a converted barn ? :lol::lol::lol:

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Further to the postings on my "Which System" thread, I'll continue on this thread as it's a more appropriate thread.

Having taken on board much of what's been advised, I've had a "doodle" with Anyrail and come up with the following idea.  That's all it is at present - an idea.

I could pinch a small part of the other half of the attic for a return loop giving me a fairly large roundy-roundy whilst still allowing plenty of space for a through station, storaage sidings, Pudding Lane (for which I'll need rear access because that's where all the magic bits are ....).  The branch line will climb up and over the main lines and continue on, via my own Maxmill module, to a "town" terminus served by a tram service.

Unfortunately, there is still a duck-under or lift-up but, to gain access to the rear Pudding Lane, it can't go against the wall.  If I set the baseboards high enough, maybe the duck-under/lift up won't be too much of a problem - it's only to access the storage sidings :roll::roll:

The following is only cobbled together - the route shown is very much simplified and contains no track detail and is only showing a single track - I don't have time to do more at the moment ..................:oops::oops::oops:






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Thats very neat Peter :thumbs.......I did wonder about the other side of the wall.......I guess negotiating the space will require concessions in other areas.......certainly did with me! :lol:

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Looks like a good plan, Peter. I wonder if you can squash it up a bit to give yourself perhaps 18ins along the back accessed from a similar width at the left hand side. Then you can get there when you need to, still without a duck under.

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You're right Geoff - I can move everythnig along a bit so I can pass along all sides except the top.

Whilst driving to Rotary tonight, instead of thinking about the forthcoming meeting, I was mulling over the plan.  Silly me - the tram section will have to go above Pudding Lane - that's where the road is !!!  Also, I'm not really sure why I opted for a return loop through the wall - I could just as easily have swung it around below the right hand water heater - it would make little difference.  However, should I decide to go through the wall, that would be no problem John - SWMBO has the rest of the house !!!  The attic remains my domain - except for the boxes of "used once in a blue moon" storage items.....................pl;us the odd back-up printer etc. should the other 7 break down :roll::roll::roll::roll:.

I'm extremely pushed between now and Easter but I'll try to fill in some of the missing details.  I'll need to buy Anyrail bofore I go any further - I used all the 50 "trial" pieces on this plan............:cheers

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Just a bit more doodling................

This will be "Maxmill Town" station.  A small industrial town terminus served by a branchline from "Maxmill Junction", the larger curved through station through which the mainline trains will pass.

Maxmill Town passenger traffic will be DMU's and 2 coach steam trains.  The upper pair of tracks leading off to the right pass through the Maxmill module before descending towards Maxmill Junction.

Whilst only 1 double sided platform is shown, there will be another single sided platform at the top and posssibly the bottom also.  The spurs are for shunting, coal drops and the local pilot.  In order to release the loco, the coaches have to be uncoupled and shunted into the "outbound" platforms except of course, for the DMU's where the driver has to be shunted.................



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Looks good Peter......just my sort of layout......assuming the squares are 1' (?) you can definitely see the advantages of the space you have.

Are the two longer faces at the top Arrival and Departure? If they are a tentative suggestion.........you may find it an advantage to run a carriage siding off the main arrival track to the right of the top double slip ........that way you can release the incoming loco without blocking the tracks for DMU traffic......just a thought


PS Having read the thread from the beginning (always a good idea) I now know where I had seen the water tanks before:oops::oops:

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A good idea John - like this ?



Incidentally, the squares are 6" - I still have to leave room for the Maxmill module at 6ft long plus a 180 degree return to pick up Maxmill Junction ................:roll::roll::roll:

This section starts around 8ft from the left hand end of the room ..............

John Dew
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I had intended  to suggest fthe other side of the second track but your position is far better. You will find that really useful.
Incidentally even at 6" there is still lots of room.

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I really like the sound of this layout & the loft is something you find in dreams, you are one very lucky person.


Cheers Mike.

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Don't you start Mike - I'm told I'm very lucky every day by SWMBO !!! ................:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I suppose it is a great loft for a layout although, as with most lofts, access isn't absolutely ideal - particularly if I want to shift 8 x 4 sheets of ply etc. ;-)

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I want to include a goods shed and coal drops at Maxmill Town.

The siding at the top will have to be kept free for coach shunting etc. and, for "town planning" purposes, the area at the bottom would be my preferred site bercaue I can "drop" the road level in the station yard to have coal "drops" rather than staithes.

The problem is, how do I get there with the wagons ?

Not a major problem with the drops - I could just pull them out of the station area and reverse over the drops.

The problem is the goods shed.  Locomotives were not, for obvious reasons, permitted to enter a goods shed so the shunting loco would have to be at the left hand end of any wagons entering the shed.  Without using 2 yard locos (a bit extravagant, even for Maxmill), how would I do this or, where else could I place the goods shed so the shunter is at the right end of the wagons ? ...............:hmm:hmm

This is the revised station plan including the new siding:


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Silly me. :brickwall

If I reversed that siding so it is entered from right to left rather than from left to right, and swapped the positions of the drops and the shed, all I'd need would be a long enough headshunt to clear the point leading to the siding .............:roll::roll::roll:

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I got tired of having nothing "fixed" and decided to assemble 3 of my boards - a total of around 12ft - and have a play with what will become "Maxmill Town" station.

I laid out the "Anyrail"  print of the town station to see how it looked.  It surprised me just how big it is - the right hand platform is a tad shy of 6ft long.  The green areas are the platforms which will be covered by a Scalescenes "large overall roof".  "SB" is the signal box site although it's rather too big as shown.  At left are the coal drops and goods shed with the station yard road leading out along the left hand board edge to the high street at the top:




Being relatively satisfied with at least the platform areas, I covered the whole of the station area with 2mm cork.  The platforms will sit on top of the cork to avoid any problems with differing levels.  At the far end, there will be the main station building at right angles to the tracks with the "High Street" scene right at the end of the board.  To the right, a road will lead towards the foreground and eventually to the Maxmill Engineering show module.  Operating will be from the left hand side and the backscene board is still to be purchased and fitted:




I ought to mention that the baseboard surface is 10mm ply and is raised 15cms above the frames. Maxmill Town is a terminus at the end of a branch line from, but higher than, Maxmill Junction.  The tracks will gradually descend towards the foreground to frame level, having passed through the old "Maxmill Engineering" show module, and join the main lines at Maxmill Junction.  This lower level layout will be a complete circuit where I can watch the trains go by.

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I see that you have made a start, Peter. The plan looks good in real life so to speak. I think it will give you great fun in its construction and operation. I am sure you will keep us posted on your progress.

 

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That's an elegant construction style, Peter.  :thumbs  The more I look at it, the more clever it looks.

Tell us about the unclad part of the top.  I must have missed the explanation in the text.

I would have thought that covering the entire framework would give it ultimate lateral stiffness.

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Interesting framework Pete,  not being in the building trade I hadn't seen this type of framework before



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Thanks Max. :cheers

The uncovered part is so the scenics can drop below track level.  It's where the coal drops will be.  You can see the cut-out on the shot with the cork covering where the actual drop will be.  The goods yard track will pass over this "hole" and on into the goods shed.  Coal wagons will stop at the "hole" and either drop the side door or drop the bottom trapdoors, depending on the type of wagon.  In the case of the trapdoors, the coal simply fell through the tracks into the bay below.

The yard road will drop from ground level into the coal yard where the surface is cut away at right angles.  There will be a retaining wall along the edge of the coal yard with the tracks at high level.

The stiffness comes from cross-bracing on the legs Max.  The "top" is screwed to small sction cross battens which in turn, are screwed to the risers.  Sorry, I ought to have taken a photo ........:cry:   I'll do it on the next board.

Dave, I can take no credit for the design of these baseboards.  It's an idea developed by Barry Norman, a well known railway modeller and modelling author.  I call it "girder frame" construction.  It allows you to create scenic work both above and below track level. 

You can read all about it here:   http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=4842&forum_id=5

It's quite a bit more work than conventional "open topped" baseboards but they claim to be stable and are lighter than using softwood size for size.

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Can't wait to see all that, Peter.  :thumbs

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On re-reading Max, you may have missed that the track board is 15cms higher than the framework - it's supported by risers slotted into the hollow parts of the girders.  The photo doesn't show it too well .......:roll:

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I can see them now you point them out.  It's really nice carpentry.

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That's looking good Peter. Some very neat framework there as well.You seem to have a smashing space for a layout there.

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I decided it was too hot outside this afternoon so spent a few hours in the attic with Maxmill Town.

Having now got my 3 double slips, I thought I'd fit them in place. Ignore the gash trackage in the foreground and on the goods siding to the left - that's just some old stuff laid out so I could see what comes next .........:roll:

The idea is that the mainlines arrive on the 2nd and 3rd track from the right.  All platforms can be accessed from these two tracks and stock cleared releasing the locos via the 3 double slips without blocking any on the mainlines.  The main arrivals/departures platforms on the right are in excess of 6ft long to allow some decent length trains (providing they can make it up the gradient from "Maxmill Junction" which will be around 3" lower. :hmm)

Here's the pointwork in place for the station throat:




This higher level shot gives a better idea of how it all connects:



Tracks from the left: (excluding the short bit far left which I forgot to move !! :oops:)

                              1.  Coal drops and good siding
                              2.  Station pilot and siding to clear stock from left hand platforms to release loco.
                              3.  Down Mainline
                              4   Up Mainline
                              5.  Siding to clear stock from right hand platforms to release loco.

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That's all working out well, Peter.  :thumbs

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I'm watching this with great interest keep up the good work

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I've done a little more "messing about" with Maxmill Town.

It was always intended to tack my Cornwall Show module onto the Town part of the layout and to incorporate "Chocolate Pudding Lane" into the lower level "Maxmill Junction" where there will be more flexibility.

Don't ask why, but I started with the "Town" station at the higher level ............:roll::roll:  Probably because I couldn'tt get at the lower level because of all the junk ...sorry, "carefully stored jems collected during our lives", that I have to share the attic with at present.

This is the current state of play: (Please excuse the "jems" lying around) ........:oops::oops:

This shot from the end of the station throat looking towards the "Maxmill Engineering" module.  The twin track will turn through 180 degrees to the right through the archway at the far end and descend towards where the photo was taken:





Looking back from the module towards the terminus "Maxmill Town" station:




Driver's eye view as he exits the tunnel and enters the module:




"Maxmill Engineering" works is situated on the siding to the left.  A small worker's commune was built on the outskirts of Maxmill to accomodate them:




The road leading to the works:


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Hi Peter,

Love the detail work in the embankment walls, that drivers eye view certain looks great to me.

Totally thumbs up work.:doublethumb

Cheers Mike.

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Hey Peter.......you've done this before:lol:

It's coming together nicely, my only criticism......those concrete blocks are a little out of scale:lol:

Phil

Last edited on Mon Aug 20th, 2012 05:40 pm by Phil.c

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Thanks Mike - the "detail" is all down to John Wiffen at Scalescenes.  I just provided the labour and glue ...........:thumbs

I've borrowed half an idea from Geoff (of Mangarth fame) for my "bus" wires.  Having read, and experienced, the difficulties of soldering droppers under the baseboard, Geoff suggested I tried copper tape along a convenient horizontal section of the frames and soldered my droppers to these.

Copper tape isn't particularly cheap so I use 2 short lengths, mounted vertically and centrally on each frame.  These short lengths are linked by lengths of flexible 1.5mm wires from frame to frame and the droppers are simply soldered to the copper tape - easy-peasy. :cool wink

The "panels" will be hidden by removable scenery depending on what the landform ultimately will be.





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Looking good.  :thumbs   Still watching and learning.  :cool:

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Peter, 5 duplicate photos are showing up.

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I have absolutely no idea what happened there :shock::shock::shock:

I did have some difficulty posting the shot - it was in the gallery but didn't appear to transfer to the post.  It sort of "flashed up" then disappeared.  I clicked "Send" and checked the result but the photo wasn't there.  All the rest were done using "Edit" to try to get the shot to print.  It appears they were there but didn't show on my "Preview". :???::???::???:

I wonder if this was the sort of problem Ben Alder was getting so annoyed about.  It has happened to me before but I just put it down to me.

Clean up squad on the way .................:thumbs

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G'day Peter,

Just read your thread and it's good to see/read about its progress. Have you a detailed track plan of the whole layout, apart from the basic diagram shown earlier in the thread ? It would be good to see. As for your copper board bus wires, have you thought about using a 2nd hand length of flexi-track ?

Cheers, Gary.

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I'm really impressed with everything Peter and am looking forward to seeing this develop; very well done.

Ken

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Gary wrote: G'day Peter,

Just read your thread and it's good to see/read about its progress. Have you a detailed track plan of the whole layout, apart from the basic diagram shown earlier in the thread ? It would be good to see. As for your copper board bus wires, have you thought about using a 2nd hand length of flexi-track ?

Cheers, Gary.

Thanks Gary. :cheers

A detailed track plan ?  Yes I have but it's in my head - untill I discover how to take a wscreen shot of my brain, I can't do m,uch about that one. :roll::roll::lol::lol:

I do have a rough idea about where I'm going with it and have been trying to persuade myself to buy Anyrail. If I do, then I'll do the plan.

I'd never thought about using track as the bus - a good idea but with one slight drawback - I find it incredibly difficult to clean old rail enough to do a half-decent solder joint.  The thoughts of constantly trying to get the rails clean enough would tend to put me off.  I even try to use new track rather than re-cycled stuff for the layout for that very reason.  How do you clean yours ?

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Thanks Ken and Phil - you're very kind.  There's still a very long way to go before I can do more than run a loco up and down - albeit around 18ft each way.  Lack of time seems to be a never ending problem.

I'll try to work on a track plan at which point,  it might make more sense to you all ..............:roll:

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mikem64 wrote: Hi Peter,

Love the detail work in the embankment walls, that drivers eye view certain looks great to me.

Totally thumbs up work.:doublethumb

Cheers Mike.


Jusswoteesed! And I love the 'squiggle-in-the-middle', was there a reason or have I missed that bit?

Doug

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Coming from you Doug, that's something - many thanks. :cheers

Regarding the "squiggle", I presume you mean the curve in the trackwork between the "module" and the station area at the far end...........or even the fact that the boards are not in a straight line.:hmm

If it's the track, that's just to get the tracks from the rear where they exit the station to the front where they were on the module.

If it's the frames themselves, access to the railway room will be at the station end from the right.  This "module/station" area will be a peninsular some 3" higher than the lower "Junction" boards.

The "Junction" boards will offer a complete roundy-roundy - running both to the left of the peninsular and along the plasterboard wall to the right.

The extra space offered by the left shift of the far end boards will be for easier access and to walk around the far end to the operating area.  In the foreground, the boards are parallel to the plasterboard wall on the right and will allow (fairly tight) access to the 2ft wall mounted lower level circuit.

The idea is that I can have a couple of trains running round on the low level (whilst I sip my Chateau Laffite) or, whilst these are running, I can also do some independant shunting on the peninsular - should the mood grab me ............:roll:

If I do manage to get a track plan up and running, my ideas will become clearer.

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Thank you, Peter, all clear now....so just another two/three days work then? :)

 

Doug

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Using the different levels is a great idea Peter and I can see dozens of cameos coming out of this layout in the future and I'm really looking forward to that. Also have to say you are much further on than I expected.

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Thanks Bob - I'm much further on than I expected too :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Like Shakespeare's Cassius, I tend to "think a lot" ........................:cheers:cheers

I'm trying to create an illusion of space.  I was inspired by both Rick Gwiwer's and John Dew's layouts and of course, by "Tetley Mills" for the industrial flavour.

The only "crowded" areas (train-wise) will be the two stations - Maxmill Town on the higher level and Maxmill Junction lower down.  The rest will be scenic but with an industrial flavour.  Lots of cameos in the future hopefully ......................:roll::roll:

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Hi Pete,

The way I clean my old track is to wipe the rails down with an automotive thinner to remove paint etc, but choose carefully as some thinners my do nasty things to the plastic chairs. Always test first. If the track has ballast stuck to it, I wash it down with water as majority of the time I use PVA to adhere the ballast. If it will not remove easily I rub a light wire brush over it to remove any excess build-up. Occasionly, this may leave marks on the sleeper surface, but this track could be used in hidden sidings or in yards where ballast covers most of the sleepers and will not be as noticable.

If you find it difficult to clean an area to solder to, use a small wire wheel in a Dremel or similar tool. As this is in regards to the bus wire, it does not matter if some sleepers are removed to clean a/several soldering point/s.

Cheers, Gary. 

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This is where I've placed the turntable.  The track extreme right is the headshunt to clear stock from the platforms thereby releasing the locomotives.  I'll only use 3 of the spurs for loco storage - the extreme left one will be removed.  One problem I've hit is that the rails on the turntable are, I think, Code 80 but my track is all Code 100.  A job for a file unless there's a converter track ......:roll:

It's not an MPD but I might install a single road engine shed for housing the yard shunter.

Excuse the mess surrounding the layout - Liz hasn't had time to get up there to do any cleaning up yet..............:roll::roll::roll::cheers




The "Maxmill Engineering" works with the loading dock.  Still most of the scenery to attack as yet but I'll get around to it in due course:




The works siding leaving the down line.  Still all the fencing to do - particularly where the houses are.




Another shot looking towards the works from the main lines.


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Looking great, Peter.  :thumbs

Track code changes can be made using metal joiners.  I know, heresy - but needs must.  Flatten one side of a Code 100, slip it on to the Code 100 track and then slip it under the Code 83 and solder it in place.

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Peter, it's so good to see some grunge on your buildings, that green algae at the base and running up the walls adds that touch of realism and is often overlooked, I think in some cases it's a case of, "I don't want to dirty my new buildings" thing :???:

 

Phil

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It's all looking really good Peter - you've obviously been working away for a while without posting much until suddenly we are presented with the fruits of your labours!    I think you're a bit of a dark horse and must have been taking some Epsom salts to have raced away like this!!!!!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

Ken

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Thanks for your kind comments guys - they're very much appreciated here in darkest, deepest rural France ........:thumbs

Thanks also for the tip on joining different code rails Max - the problem here is that the Code 80 (?) is already fixed to the turntable so it's either a case of making a join further back or filing the Code 100 down so it meets at the turntable edge .....:hmm

Phil, if you've noticed the junk lying around the attic, you'll realise "clean" isn't my thing ..................;-)  I'm always impressed by good weathering and agree that, done properly, it adds a lot of realism.  I try to read as much as I can on the subject but don't feel competent enough yet to have a go at some of the more expensive rolling stock.  A Metcalfe house or two is no great loss if I make a pig's ear of it .......

Ken, I assure you, there's been no  "rush".   Other than a bit of time spent very recently on the baseboards and track laying, progress has been pitifully slow.  The "Maxmill Module" bit was half built for the Cornwall show a couple of years ago and has hardly been touched since.  I have basically posted as I've done it - that way, I can benefit from "live" comments and correct any errors you "experts" spot before they become major issues.  Modelling on your own, one can often miss the woods for the trees ............:roll:.  I find it invaluable to have "outside" advice from those who've done it all before.

Now that I've got to this stage, I'm keen to cash in and get on with the rest of it.  I also now have a little more spare time than I've had over the last few years so hopefully, progress will be a little more noticable.

Having said that, you can still send the Epsom Salts - just in case .............:cheers:cheers

Chubber
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MaxSouthOz wrote: Looking great, Peter.  :thumbs

Track code changes can be made using metal joiners.  I know, heresy - but needs must.  Flatten one side of a Code 100, slip it on to the Code 100 track and then slip it under the Code 83 and solder it in place.



....oh, Max, you really are the Ned Kelly of Railway Modelling! A man of Peter's diameter, sorry, calibre, will want these.....Peco SL 113, and at about £6 for a pack of 4 are as nothing to a man of his means......

They are even sold at outlets in third-world regions, see

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/product/37978/SL113_Peco_Transition_Track_for_joining_Code_75_to_Code_100

 

Tee-hee!


Must go, it's raining lightly here and I want to go and run around in it...........starkers!
 

Doug

Last edited on Sat Aug 25th, 2012 12:03 pm by Chubber

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Doofer - he will still have to do some filing when he connects code 75 to 83 using those transistion tracks.

I used Max's method when I had to connect code 100 Peco to Code 83 Tillig turnouts. I found the Peco Code 83 & 75 use the same size joiners ( two different coloured packs though) & lightly file the end of the Code 83 to match the code 75.

Did you get wet from the rain?

Chubber
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 I remember, I used Peco 75 to build the t'table, and if I read correctly, Peter is using Peco 100? Should be O.K.?

 

Doug

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dooferdog wrote:  I remember, I used Peco 75 to build the t'table, and if I read correctly, Peter is using Peco 100? Should be O.K.?

 

Doug

In that case, yes, either transition track SL-113 or joiners SL112

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I've spent a bit of time adding to the baseboards for the lower "Maxmill Junction" circuit.

This is what it looks like tonight:

The high level "Maxmill Town" terminus is on the left.  The higher curved board at the far end will fall to join the lower level somewhere around the right forground where the level is.  On the right, the white foamboard sticking up is the first loop of Chocolate Pudding Lane.





Looking the other way - the site of Chocolate Pudding Lane is clearer in this shot.  The boards will continue aroud the far end then return along the wall on the right in this shot before completing the circuit roughly where the photgrapher is standing.



Excuse the mess - this is still a "building site" :cheers

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I reckon that it's one of the most exciting parts, Peter

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Just caught up with this thread..................what splendid progress! It must be very satisfying to see it all coming together so well.

The baseboard construction looks very robust and well made......I have not seen that method before.

Those Metcalfe workers cottages do look the part, I rather wish I had used the grey option instead of red brick . I loved that little cameo back in July with the tree......promise of things to come!

It may be an optical illusion but it looks kind of narrow at the end......what will the radius be?

Kind Regards

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vg

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The minimum radius at the "stone wall" end will be 4 ft John (where there will be my "much desired" curved station).  At the " concrete block" end where the module sits it's 5ft.

The "main" section with the terminus is a high level spur surrounded, at a lower level, by the "circuit".  The "under construction baseboards" you can see (where Chocolate Pudding Lane is) form one long side of the circuit and the other side will be up against the plasterboard walling which in turn, is around 3ft 6ins away from the spur.  This side will just have storage roads - 3 in each direction some between 6 and 8ft long.

I really must do a track plan so you can see what's going on ..................:roll::roll:


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So it was an optical illusion:oops:  They are generous radii and clearly you will be able to achieve your desire for sweeping curves.

The station platforms on 48" radius will be a challenge though.......Scalescenes or?  Is the intent still to have a Scalescene overall roof on the curve?:cheers

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I may be able to "stretch" the radius for the curved station a little more John but it won't have an overall roof ............that's planned for the "Town" terminus you can see on the spur.  The curved station is what gives the layout it's name - "Maxmill Junction". 

There will be a continuous circuit at the lower level and a "junction" after the tube module up to the higher level where "Maxmill Town" is situated.  If my tape measure is well made, I'll have a gradient of around 1 in 80.  I had hoped to go for 1 in 90 by having the junction before the tube module rather than after it. That won't now be practical because of the need to access the gubbins behind the tube station which would end up hidden under the track bed for the gradient.

It's all a matter of being able to access the bits I need to. I'll have to crawl under the layout to get to the rear of Chocolate Pudding Lane. The electronic wizardry is all at the rear of the module and I'm very tight for headroom under that main roof beam you can see (actually, you can't see it in these last shots but it's big and it's hard and it is almost over the tube site !!!).  Bump caps will be an essential.  Ideally, I'd need to move all the electronics to under the tube module for easier access but, looking at Geoff's maze of wires, I think I'll just risk banging my head ...............  On the other hand, all the actual relays etc. are very neatly built into a box so it may just be a case of using some extensions from all the multi-plugs.  I'll see what Mr Electronics himself says ....... 

I had originally hoped to be able to walk around the back along the "stone" wall end but that's not going to be possible with the curved station there. Maybe I placed the spur a little too close to that stone wall ............:oops::oops::oops:    I'll raise the baseboards after the tube rather than having the trackwork on risers to allow more clearance between the floor and underside of the boards.  The curved station boards will all be solid top.

Bob K
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That's a great looking straight trailing off into the distance, which is going to be a super setting for some long trains. I also like the way you have built in the area where the bridges go over the river, making the railway settle into the terrain.

Bob

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Thanks Bob - coming from you, that's valued praise. :cheers

I reassembled Chocolotate Pudding Lane where it will sit on the layout.  I did have huge problems getting the trains to run through the left hand tunnel but, with the help of diggers, blasting powder and a heavy hammer, all now works well.

This is where it sits in relation to the rest of the layout:




And this shows that troublesome main timber that interferes with my hairstyle whenever I need to access the controls for the tube module  (That's a craft light you can see, not a Martian Fighting Machine from War of the Worlds !!!) :




Thoughts then turned to trams .............

If I move the pavement forward, I have room for a doubled tram track in the centre of the road with space for vehicles either side:




The "Keep Left" sign and lamp post will have to go:




Tram tracks can run much closer together than railway tracks so I can gain more space than shown in this shot:




Turning the corner around the tube station will require a tight curve.  This one is an "Anyrail"  print of an 8" radius curve. My 4 wheel Leeds "Horsfields" should have no trouble negotiating such tight curves although I may have problems with the ex-London Feltham bogie trams.  This was prototypical - when Leeds bought a batch from London, their routes were restricted to those with fairly generous curves.  The tracks will then disappear behind the module and eventually, form a complete circuit taking in "Maxmill Junction" station:




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Ah! I'm with it now.
"Mind the Doors".

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That's the one DD. :thumbs:thumbs

I don't know yet whether to use Peco Code 75 flexitrack or to try the Proto 87 girder rails from the States  -
http://www.proto87.com/easy-street-track-system.html

 
The advantage with the former is the depth.  This would allow me to infill with some kind of plaster and score in the cobblestones. 

The advantage with the latter is that it's more "prototypical" being "girder rail" plus it comes in pre-formed curves.  However, it's not very deep so infilling with plaster might be a problem in that a thin coating would be quite brittle.

Either way, I'll have to "shim up" the buildings and pavements on some thin ply - a) to take the track pins, wiring and traction poles which have to be pretty rigid and b) to preserve the kerbs once the road deck is laid.


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The Proto 87 track looks very good Peter ,i think i would be tempted to go with that and suffer the other adjustments.

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A well known Prot87 modeller uses tiling grout for his road surface. I wouldn't envy you scoring all the cobbles though!

 

Auhagen do some really nice sheets of cobbles that actually join together and are about 1.5mm thick.

http://www.auhagen-shop.de/product_info.php/info/p32838_1-cobblestone-single---br---Accessory-sheet---plastic.html

I have used some for a friends layout I'm helping him build and it is nice stuff.

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Thanks for that Simon.  Unfortunately, the Auhagen sheets are "continental" style cobbles - clam-shell format ...............:roll:

For UK, they will have to be the stone setts.  Whilst they're available in pre-printed form or, by using a "Linka" type mould for casting, the problem with rigid sheets of any type, comes with getting a good fit on corners etc.  Slow and tedius as it is, scoring seems to be the best way from what I've seen / heard.

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Good to see you have made some progress on that layout of yours Peter. Also good to see that the underground module found a permanent home. :thumbs

ps. MIND THE DOORS :Red Card

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I've put in the risers and base for the low level circuit between Pudding Lane and the end wall.




The "Town" terminus level will join the low level circuit at what is "Maxmill Junction" just after the tube module. The link line is the upper curve seen here and the gradient starts at the bit jutting out to the right of this shot (you can probably just about make out the string line).  I need to drop around 2.5 cms and have a length of 320 cms to do it in.  I'm happy with that.




This is what gives the layout it's name - the actual "Maxmill Junction".  As trains exit the tube module (the black face seen here), they will either take the double tracks to the right which will form a complete circuit wrapping around the high level "Town" station, or take the tracks to the left which rise up to the "Town".


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You are moving along very well Peter. Good to see it all taking shape now. You have certainly made a great job of integrating Pudding Lane into the rest of the layout. If that left hand tunnel is proving to be too much of a hassle, you might try replacing it with a slightly larger diameter pipe. The one I used is close to scale for the diameter, but the bend is of course, much too tight.

As an alternative, I wonder if you have enough room to make that end of the underground loop with a larger radius curve and then reduce the bend on the pipe?

Watching with interest. I trust you will invite us all over for a play when you have trains running???

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Thanks Geoff - I'm quite pleased with the way it's all going - although I say it myself. :thumbs

I've sorted that troublesome tunnel. ;-)

From what I could make out, there were 2 problems. 

Firstly, some of the paper lining was coming away - probably some damp from somewhere when it was in storage here.  I stuck that down OK with Evostick (or UHU - don't remember which)

The other problem I think was, as you say, the very tight clearances within the tunnel. 

I think the bottom of the outer archway wasn't sitting down on the base tight enough and the train was catching it half way through the tube. 

I solved that by cutting away the bottom outer pipe and re-attaching it with hot melt higher up the white foamboard edging. The flexi-tube now has the inner face as was but the outer face is cut away almost to where you'd cut the hole to see the signal. 

This has effectively increased the tunnel diameter although it's hardly noticable from the viewing position.  She runs through it perfectly now - at least she did when I last ran it a few days ago ............I've done some more woodwork on the baseboards since then ..........hope I didn't bump anything :roll::roll:

My next challenge with Pudding Lane, should I choose to accept it, is to make up a longer "umbilical" from the "set" to the "box of tricks" so I can bring it to the front of the layout - that beam is starting to hurt .............:???:    Looking at it, there are lots of connections so I may not bother.

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Wow, running that lot will be fun - trams, underground and mainline will be exciting. I have enough trouble with just a double track and a few junctions. I assume the trams and underground will run on an automatic/timer basis. It would be a good project to set up I should think.

Bob

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Yes Bob, I hope both the tube and trams will be semi-automatic.

The underground is already virtually there.  It has an option for "continuous running" where everything just goes round and round although the sound synchronisation doesn't work in "continuous" mode.  You still get all the noises and flashes, but not in time with the train.

Pressing the red bell push on the front of the module sets off the timed automatic sequence.

The station lights come on, the train sets off from the rear of the module, blue lights simulate arcing in the tunnel and the sound of a tube train is heard approaching. There's a fan that blows a (yet to be fitted) bit of tissue paper fixed to the station entrance - just like the draught from the real thing.  Then the train slows to a halt with the associated humming sounds of the electric generators and various indecipherable announcements. 

That infamous "Mind the Doors" echoes through the station, the signal in the tunnel changes from red to green and the train departs - again accompanied by the "rumble" of tube trains in tunnels and blue flashing from the arcing "live" rail.  Although I don't yet have one, a second train would then repeat most of the process on the second platform before the system shuts down to "re-charge" for the next run.

I wish I could say I'm clever to have devised it all but every scrap of credit goes to Geoff R (of Mangarth fame) - the "electronics genius" and builder of the module from whom I bought it.

The trams will not be anything like as clever but, if I can get overhead power collection to work well enough, it's a simple "mechanical" operation (more my scene) to get a tram to stop and then be triggered off again by a second tram bringing up the rear - and so on.  Otherwise, I could perhaps learn about electronic timers and "halt" modules ...........:roll::roll::roll:

The overland will be me .........................:cheers:cheers

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 Otherwise, I could perhaps learn about electronic timers and "halt" modules ...........:roll::roll::roll:


Many moons ago, I wanted a circuit that would gradually dim the lights in my bird room, as some of the canaries and the Chinese Painted Quail would get in a right state if 'sunset' happened abruptly.

After much head scratching and a few 'sploded' power I devised a foolproof method involving a length of catapult elastic,  two small paint-tins for sand, a box with a sliding lid [think big pencil box]an old flat-iron, a brass toggle-type light switch, a sash pulley and a length of knotted cod-line.

Method....

Swap the empty bucket for the full one thus pulling on the switch and raising the shutter on the box wherein lay the 40 Watt bedtime light. Allow the sand to run through the hole in the bucket [filling the empty one on the floor beneath] causing the shutter to slide down, the switch to eventually click off under the weight of the flat iron.....

So? Your railway room is quite high up and I am envisaging Maxmill Tramways Corp controlled by a length of nylon line, rove through several pullies to a weight out of the window together with a series of toggle switches tied to the main line at appropriate points........

I have to go now, as the nurse has told me to take my little yellow pill and drink my nasty medecine......

Doofer[Emmet]Dog

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Petermac wrote: My next challenge with Pudding Lane, should I choose to accept it, is to make up a longer "umbilical" from the "set" to the "box of tricks" so I can bring it to the front of the layout - that beam is starting to hurt .............:???:    Looking at it, there are lots of connections so I may not bother.


Do you just want to move the main control box, Peter?

If so, all you need is an extension lead between the two halves of this connector:-




If you tell me what length you need, I will make one up and send it to you.

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Doug - I'm studying your idea.  I'm sure it must have some merit - if only I was a canary or a painted quail (does it only work on Chinese quail and would knotted haddock line work as well ?)...........:hmm

Geoff, it is just the control box I'd like to move.  If you're serious about making one for me, that would be fantastic. :pathead:pathead

I'll measure it up tomorrow and let you know. :cheers  Do you still have the wiring plan available or should I identify those too ?

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Fascinating.

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Petermac wrote: Geoff, it is just the control box I'd like to move.  If you're serious about making one for me, that would be fantastic.
I'll measure it up tomorrow and let you know.   Do you still have the wiring plan available or should I identify those too ?

Yes, I am serious. I do have the wiring plan still, but it is not really necessary as it is just a one to one connection needed across a pair of matching plugs and sockets. I know that I have used different size and colour wires, but I can make the umbilical universal - a bit like a mains extension lead, but with more wires!

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I completed the woodwork and laid some track on "Maxmill Bank" today - the link between the high level "Town" area and the lower level circuit which incorporates Chocolate Pudding Lane.

The extreme right hand track is fixed as is the right hand "Y" point.  The next left is fixed to within a yard of the "Y" but I need a large diamond crossing before I can join it all up.  The two tracks on the left are just there to see how the curve looks going off to the low level circuit.  The missing sleepers at the joints will be replaced with dummys when I'm happy with everything.




I've had a Class 47 and 6 Pullman coaches up the bank without it even realising it's not level.  The grade is a tad over 1 in 80.  The curves are slightly tighter than I'd hoped and in the odd place, are down to 3ft radius but in the main, it's a 4ft radius on the bank.


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Charging along now, Peter.  :thumbs

Are those spaces between the right of way and the edge of the framework going to be hillsides?

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Yes Max.  The idea is to have a river between the two routes then exiting baseboard left under the left hand route - I have a vision of some low-lying land (the flood plain) with the tracks on bridgework "stilts" then a "proper" bridge over the river.  A wier will create a head of water to drive a corn mill.  Some of the "Bank" tracks will be on the edge of cliff-like terrain with the river in the bottom.

At least that's the plan ...............

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It's going to be spectacular, Peter.
You may have problems finding the right shaped 'diamond' but you can always cut them I suppose.

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Thanks DD.

According to the Peco track design possibilities on the back of their paper templates, this junction is made up of 2 x large "Y" points and a long diamond.  Until I get the diamond, I don't know exactly how it will work out - hence not fixing the second "Y" nor any of the other 3 tracks yet.  As it is, there's only 1 track and 1 "Y" fixed in place.

I suppose I could print off the paper templates and see how it looks (good thinking !!! :roll::roll::roll:).

We'll see .............................:roll::roll:

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The peco templates are reasonably accurite Peter. Remember when I built most of potters before I laid any track ...... ;-)

ps. I herd that a certain pair of A4s from overseas are due to arrive at shildon next week.:cool:

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Boy Peter, that is looking great. Don't suppose you could work in a small waterfall anywhere. :lol:

Wayne

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Wayne Williams wrote: Boy Peter, that is looking great. Don't suppose you could work in a small waterfall anywhere. :lol:

Wayne

Thanks Wayne. :thumbs

I'm waiting for you to do your Niagara before I do mine ..........:roll::roll::roll:;-)

I have an idea to have a rock face at the far end (where the two levels cross) with a waterfall coming down the face at the start of the river. The river would be fairly shallow at that point - a sort of "babbling brook" with lots of stones and boulders in the bed before being backed up by the mill wier :hmm

Perhaps not very prototypical of a UK scene - more in line with your side of the pond - but it might look good.  I'll read your tutorial when you've done yours ...............:cheers 

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Westcoast wrote: The peco templates are reasonably accurite Peter. Remember when I built most of potters before I laid any track ...... ;-)

ps. I herd that a certain pair of A4s from overseas are due to arrive at shildon next week.:cool:

That must be "Dwight D" and "Dominion of"  Dave ........:roll::roll:

Unfortunately, I'm not over until later in the month.  How long are they staying at Shildon ?  Surely they'll also make a visit to York.

With any luck, I might get to see them somewhere ..................:cool wink

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Thats the ones Peter. Im sure I read somewhere they were due to be painted. Also due at shildon next month is restreamlined dutchess of hamalton. :cool:

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http://www.nrm.org.uk/PlanaVisit/Events/mallard75.aspx

 

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Thanks for that link Dave.  It seems there will be something for me to see at both York and Shildon whilst I'm over. :thumbs

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Lots of progress Peter....................you really have achieved your aim of sweeping curves and what a splendid foundation for the scenic work you are planning. The various features you have listed will make a striking counterpoint to the dark satanic mills on the other side.......and that contrast is/was so typical of industrial towns on both sides of the Pennines.

I am guessing you are now committed to insulfrog points. Have you now determined the operating method? Is the motor already in place for the fixed Y?


:cheers

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Thanks for your kind comments John.  I hope the "sweeping curves" don't end up being a little cramped........:roll::roll:

I'm not at all committed to Insulfrog points - in fact, quite the reverse ............from now on !!!  The "Y"'s you see there are "existing stock" as are most of those currently in place.  Future purchases will be Electrofrog.

There are no point motors in place yet but holes are drilled through the baseboards to take them (except where I forgot initially :oops:).

Regarding operating, I'm still leaning towards throwing switches on a facsimilie track plan in the "signal box".  I'll have to get my brain around all the wiring for that. 

I'd like LED's to show the route set as I throw the switches.  I'll also have "section switches" on the plan, similarly showing what's live and what isn't.  This is so that I can, when necessary, and in the short term, run DC locos.  I do plan to chip them all eventually (or sell those I can't) but my bank manager (Liz) keeps telling me to learn to walk before I try running.  Chips (the type I need) are fairly expensive in bulk .......... ...........

The "Great Divide" between Lowry country and Constable country will be along that concrete block wall - probably in the form of the "Standedge" or "Summit" Tunnel under the high moorland.

I remember seeing a US outline layout where he'd made "pictures" all with totally different themes - a bit like our YMR module set-up.  Each "theme" was viewed through a picture frame facia and, to ensure you didn't get confused, only the scene he wanted you to look at was lit - the rest being in near total darkness.  It was extremely effective and gave the modeller the oportunity to model a whole range of diverse scenes without the need to link them visually.

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Hi Peter,

I see you are making good progress with the wood and track work.  Your lamp head does look a spaceship -  another theme maybe :lol:

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gdaysydney wrote: Hi Peter,

I see you are making good progress with the wood and track work.  Your lamp head does look a spaceship -  another theme maybe :lol:

:mutley:mutley:mutley

The transport system, including the tube and trams could possibly serve a developing rocket site ...................or that part of the layout could be a diorama for "Horsham Common" and the martian landings in "War of the Worlds" ...........maybe I should paint the ceiling green :roll::lol::lol::lol:

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Petermac wrote:


I'm not at all committed to Insulfrog points - in fact, quite the reverse ............from now on !!! The "Y"'s you see there are "existing stock" as are most of those currently in place. Future purchases will be Electrofrog. There are no point motors in place yet but holes are drilled through the baseboards to take them (except where I forgot initially :oops:).
:thumbsI phrased the question delicately just in case! I dont believe you will regret the decision for one moment. Wiring the points for polarity switching is a breeze with the new Peco point......no more horrible gashes with a dremel. So with LED indication you will need double switches..............what type of motor/switch have you opted for?


Regarding operating, I'm still leaning towards throwing switches on a facsimilie track plan in the "signal box". I'll have to get my brain around all the wiring for that.
 :thumbsI think with a layout of your size you are absolutely right to go for some form of central control. I imagine you will go for a separate Power Bus for the point motors............and will you need another one for the LEDs? There will be lots of wires but it shouldnt be too complicated particularly if you can get hold of old multicoloured telephone wire or similar
 

I'll also have "section switches" on the plan, similarly showing what's live and what isn't. This is so that I can, when necessary, and in the short term, run DC locos. I do plan to chip them all eventually (or sell those I can't) but my bank manager (Liz) keeps telling me to learn to walk before I try running. Chips (the type I need) are fairly expensive in bulk .......... ...........

I am less certain about this:hmm

I am not sure about the actual technicalities of dual running......switching between DC and AC.......  but the concept does seem fraught with both complexity and potential danger.......DCC locos not set up properly for DC runnning....pouff!:twisted:

I do agree about the cost......it took me 5 years to finish chipping.....in fact I still have to do the last one (a split chassis of course)............I tended to focus on the scenery which takes time but not much money and initially chip just a few locos to operate.



The "Great Divide" between Lowry country and Constable country will be along that concrete block wall - probably in the form of the "Standedge" or "Summit" Tunnel under the high moorland.


I think that is a great solution....I am sure  it will look spectacular :thumbs

:cheers:cheers


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............................ So with LED indication you will need double switches..............what type of motor/switch have you opted for?

What do you mean by "double switches" John ?  Do you mean 1 switch for the point and a second for the route ?  I'd hoped it would be possible to wire them so that the route was shown when the point was set but that may be wishful thinking ........:roll::roll:

I'm planning to use tortoise motors although I do have a few old Seep/Peco/H&M type motors floating around which I may make use of.


.....................I imagine you will go for a separate Power Bus for the point motors............and will you need another one for the LEDs? There will be lots of wires but it shouldnt be too complicated particularly if you can get hold of old multicoloured telephone wire or similar

The point motors will have their own bus but again, I'd hoped setting those would also light rthe appropriate LED's :???:  I do have a fair bit of telephone and alarm cable in the garage but wondered about the capacity over long lengths.


I am not sure about the actual technicalities of dual running......switching between DC and AC.......  but the concept does seem fraught with both complexity and potential danger.......DCC locos not set up properly for DC runnning....pouff!:twisted:

This part will be the pain - at least until I've either chipped or sold the DC locos.  I did have a slight "spree" on an auction site a while back, hence the DC locos ...........:cry::cry:    When running on DC, I'll remove ALL DCC locos and, once the session is over, swap them again. 

Even as I write this, I do wonder if I'm creating a lot of work (and expense) for section switches in the short term, and might be better off putting the effort and cash towards chipping those I'd like to run ............................:roll::roll::roll:



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Petermac wrote:




What do you mean by "double switches" John ? Do you mean 1 switch for the point and a second for the route ? I'd hoped it would be possible to wire them so that the route was shown when the point was set but that may be wishful thinking ........:roll::roll: I'm planning to use tortoise motors
:doublethumb Tortoises are to my mind absolutely the right choice................I just wish I had converted to them sooner. You get 8 contacts on a Tortoise.......2 to throw the point and 2 switches each with 3 contacts........so you can throw the point, change the polarity on the frog with one switch and power the route LEDs with the other. The cost is very close to the combined cost of a peco motor and double (DPDT ???? or similar:oops:) switch and far more reliable


although I do have a few old Seep/Peco/H&M type motors floating around which I may make use of.
Based on my own sad experience (I have to spend the afternoon yet again crouched under the baseboard trying to fix a peco switch for a crucial point at the entry to the storage yard).........  I would confine their use to insulfrog points in non strategic areas  and ideally have them surface mounted.

The point motors will have their own bus but again, I'd hoped setting those would also light rthe appropriate LED's :???: I do have a fair bit of telephone and alarm cable in the garage but wondered about the capacity over long lengths.
I think that should work.....but I am no expert. I have used that type of wire over fairly long distances 15' or so without any problems for  individual point switching..............I  wire the common bus using a slightly heavier gauge and tap off it......there is probably a better term for that!


Even as I write this, I do wonder if I'm creating a lot of work (and expense) for section switches in the short term, and might be better off putting the effort and cash towards chipping those I'd like to run ............................:roll::roll::roll:
I know what I would do....................:pedal

:cheers


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OK - here's the latest plan............:thumbs

The Seeps (or whatever they are) will be strategically placed so that, at the flick of a switch, they'll instantly flatten any mosquito brave enough to settle on my control panel or wherever and Tortoises will be used throughout.

I'll make use of the telephone/alarm cable somewhere within the route/point/LED circuitry.  I've probably got 300 metres of the stuff looking for a use.

My DC locos will be temporarily "laid up" until I get around to chipping them (including the DCC Ready Std.Class 4 that only arrived on Saturday from Cornwall ...).  The layout will be totally DCC.  Having "played" a bit last evening with a couple of DC locos (the 4-6-2's to check curves and grades) on a DCC layout (admittedly without section switches), I know which is more fun ...............:thumbs:thumbs

Thanks for the kick in the right direction John. :cheers

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Petermac wrote:
Thanks for the kick in the right direction John. :cheers


No point in you discovering square wheels dont work as well! Glad you found it useful:cheers

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I made this suggestion for someone on here a while ago in regard to wiring LEDs to show point direction settings with electrofrogs:-







One resistor at each point with one end connected to the frog. One wire from the other end of the resistor to the control panel. Two LEDs on the control panel showing each direction of the point, with one end connected to the DCC bus as shown. Two diodes each between the other side of each LED and the single wire from the frog. These diodes are just to protect the LEDs from the AC waveform of the DCC bus. It doesn't matter which way round the LEDs are connected.

When the frog is connected by the point motor switch to the red side of the DCC bus, the LED connected to the black side will light up. When the frog is connected to the black side of the DCC bus, the LED connected to the red side will light up.

Very cheap, and very effective, and does not drain very much from the DCC bus.

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That's exactly what I'm trying to do Geoff  - I'll study your drawings and hopefully, get my head around what's happening there.

As you probably know, electronics is not my thing but, once I've digested and understood the circuits, it will come to me ........:???:

Added to that, I've just this minute walked in from a neighbours where we'd opened a rather nice bottle of so I'm not totally complus-mentus at this moment.................................................................:cheers:cheers

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What a great idea Geoff must remember that one. :thumbs

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Petermac wrote: Added to that, I've just this minute walked in from a neighbours where we'd opened a rather nice bottle of so I'm not totally complus-mentus at this moment.................................................................:cheers:cheers

Come on, don't leave us in suspense. What was the nice bottle of ...? Must have been really good. :lol:

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Perhaps he cant remember.......................:mutley


Moving right along.........Peter is using Tortoises to power his points so wouldnt he use one of the tortoise switches for the switchboard LEDs?


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John Dew wrote:

Moving right along.........Peter is using Tortoises to power his points so wouldnt he use one of the tortoise switches for the switchboard LEDs?



Yes, a good point John - Tortoise/Cobalt for both frog switching & panel indication & if using LED in series with Tortoise operating wiring, in-built switches are not needed - see attached on Page 2

Attachment: man-tortoise.pdf (Downloaded 6 times)

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Hi Peter,

Sol beat me to it - (sort of) - but I unless you've already purchased the Tortoise motors I would strongly recommend that you consider the Cobalt motors from DCC Concepts. http://www.dccconcepts.com/index_files/Cobalt_turnout_motor.htm They are, IMHO, much neater than the tortoise motors and there's a price advantage to boot.

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Hi Trevor

Your comment has my brain cramping.  I read somewhere that the Cobalts have struck a problem.

I can't remember the details (oldtimers).  :oops:       . . . but it will come to me - eventually.    :shock:

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Good morning all - I'm awake again now ................................:cheers:cheers:cheers

The RLW that did the damage was a bottle (or two) of 2009 (a good year) of Chateau Brillette Bordeaux red - and very good it was too !!!

I'm slightly more able to see what's going on in your diagram Geoff but, as John said, I had understood that there would be a spare switch available on the Tortoises which I could use for the route LED's.  Is this correct ..............?

Trevor, I too had heard that Cobalt had encountered some (reliability ?) problems - I'm not sure if they've resolved them but, whilst I haven't yet purchased the motors (too many other demands on resources at present), because I haven't heard of any problems with the Tortoise, that's the one I'm going for.

I'm not "into" electronics so reliability from a tried and tested unit it vitally important to me.  As with computers, if I switch it on and it works, that's great, if it doesn't, I'm totally stumped ..............:cry::cry::cry:  It's just the way my brain works (if at all !!) - I have to be able to "see" something, not "imagine" it.  I've said before, I'm mechanically minded, not electrically ............:oops::oops:

My current priority with the layout is to complete the lower level "circuit" - at least with a single track - so that I can let locos run around to bed them in and also, to test decoder adjustments properly by allowing them to attain their full speed.  At present, it's a matter of running them from end to end - albeit a run of around 50ft....

To that end, I'm awaiting delivery of the long crossing for the "Junction" and have around 40ft of further baseboards to construct to close the circle.

This hobby does tend to eat up money - I'm now thinking I need one of those extremely expensive track cleaning wagons - I'm getting a little tired of "leaves on the rails" bringing things to a halt during the dusty "building phase" of Maxmill Junction :hmm.

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Hi Peter,

There was, apparently, a bad batch of Cobalts about a year ago but AFAIK that was fully resolved at the time.

This is a link to the topic on another forum which may be what you are referring to. http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?s=51216c750e9b590b6ee81daad9f082ec&showtopic=19342

I would not normally post a link to another forum but, in this case, I hope it can be permitted as it seems the best way to resolve this particular issue.

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Trevor , thanks, I was looking for that myself & we have no hang-ups in posting links to other forums for specific info.

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Thanks very much for your input Trevor.

In cases like this, it's never a problem to post links to another forum - it save a huge amount of typing to say nothing of any misprints that might cause copyright or other "mis-representation" issues.

It made interesting reading and I do accept that the problem, once spotted, was jumped on immediately.

One really shouldn't write off any product because of a small manufacturing error - particularly given the distance involved between manufacturing plant and end seller. 

We all know that the Chinese are perfectly capable of manufacturing goods at both ends of the quality spectrum.  It's one of the risks we take in seeking cheap labour.  I have certainly had both highs and lows as a result of using their manufacturing plants in the past ............:roll::roll::roll:

Having to return stuff from here is both expensive and a PITA in terms of lost time.  I usually just settle for what arrives and either repair or bin as necessary.  The postage costs involved just aren't worth the hassle.  That's why I tend to shy away from anything with a "history".

The actual size of the motor isn't particularly important.  The 2 large "Y" points that form "Maxmill Junction" itself,  are the only 2 points with anything underneath the boards - in that case, Geoff's tube module and the Y's miss the underpassing tube track so there won't be a problem.

Without checking, I'm not sure what price advantage there is but it might be interesting to do a poll on who uses Cobalts as opposed to Tortoises and why .................:roll::roll::roll:

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Thanks, Trevor.  :thumbs  I couldn't remember for the life of me where I read it.  :???:

I use Tortoise exclusively as I got a heap of them cheaply when Sol stripped them out of his layout.  I mount them on their side using a double pivot which makes them sit higher under the board and adds extra leverage.

However, they are very noisy and the internal DPDT switches on a couple of them are starting to give trouble in the form of connectivity issues.

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With reference to Trevor's post about Cobalt motors, I've just had a look at prices of both these and the Tortiose.

Am I missing something ? :shock:

Gaugemarter are offering the Cobalt (currently out of stock) at £26.95 for a single unit but I can buy the Tortoise for only £14.29.

I realise the bulk packs will be cheaper for both but why should the Cobalt appear to be nearly twice the price of the Tortoise ?.........:hmm:hmm:hmm

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Hi Peter,

I think the large price differential is caused by comparing apples with pears. The Cobalt being advertised by Gaugemaster & Bromsmods comes with a built-in DCC decoder. If you go to the DCC Concepts web site the basic Cobalt is A$25.95 which converts to approx £16 each. The £ cost has, unfortunately, been affected by recent exchange rate movements as they actually worked out cheaper than Tortoises when I last looked.

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Thanks Trevor - I thought there had to be something wrong ..............:oops::oops::oops:

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John Dew wrote: Peter is using Tortoises to power his points so wouldnt he use one of the tortoise switches for the switchboard LEDs?

Yes, no problem, and as Sol says, it may be possible to wire them in series with the point motor as another alternative. One advantage of the approach I have shown is that it only requires a single wire from each point. If using a switch, at least two wires would be necessary.

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Geoff R wrote: John Dew wrote: Peter is using Tortoises to power his points so wouldnt he use one of the tortoise switches for the switchboard LEDs?

Yes, no problem, and as Sol says, it may be possible to wire them in series with the point motor as another alternative. One advantage of the approach I have shown is that it only requires a single wire from each point. If using a switch, at least two wires would be necessary.


I'm all for saving wires :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs  I'll go for the simplest method - I'm still trying to discover the meaning of the word "relay" :cry:  When I was a lad, it meant passing the rolled up newspaper to the next guy on the running track .............:roll::roll:

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I think there is a comparison between Tortoise and Cobalt on the Circuitron Site. They manufacture the Tortoise so it is a little less than impartial:lol: but it makes interesting reading.

DCC Concepts lost a lot of customers as a result of that faulty batch and in some cases their response wasnt that good. Chris from Kernow said that when first launched they sold out completely but subsequently sales dropped off and if I recall that they were now about 4 to 1 in favour of Tortoise

Max is right about the noise in that they make prolonged zzzzzz as the motor moves across......personally I find it rather re assuring:lol: and much more prototypical than the peco pistol crack.

You had a thread about track cleaner some time ago Peter which model are you thinking of? Its likely to be my next major purchase:cheers

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It's the CMX machine I was thinking of John.  It seems to have an excellent write-up (and a price to match) .............:roll::roll:

I've already discovered that, "clean track" to DC is not quite the same as "clean track" is to DCC :cry::cry::cry:

Given that Maxmill covers a large area, hand cleaning the track would become as chore in time.  With that wagon, I could clean it whilst I tested my locos ............:roll::roll::roll::lol::lol::lol:

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The Beauty of Geoff R's solution is that it shows which direction the actual point blades are pointing and not just that the switch on the point motor has worked:shock:.

Expensive sound equiped loco's don't take too kindly to running through a point that is set against them:roll:. They don't bounce too well:oops:.

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How do you know that Simon ? ............:roll::roll::roll::lol::lol:

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I've realised today that I'm building a far more prototypical layout than originally planned..............:pathead:pathead:pathead

The plan was to run "what I like, where I like"

Having sorted out the decoder problems with my Hornby A3 "Ladas"  - at least Geoff (R) and John (Dew) sorted them by "distance control" - I have discovered that she is too long (by just less than a pair of wheels) for the turntable at "Maxmill Town".............:twisted::sad:

The V2 "Durham Light Infantry" fits beautifully but the A3 (and therefore perhaps all the Pacific locomotives) is too long.

From now on, the branch leading to "Maxmill Town" terminus, will be restricted to locomotives no longer than the V2.

Effectively, there will be a weight restriction on that route. :thumbs

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As you say Peter, very prototypical. There were many stations on the East Coast without large enough tables, hence the common sight of light engines travelling to the nearest 70ft table to be turned.

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I've spent a few hours this afternoon soldering droppers on "Maxmill Bank".  In spite of using metal joiners on this section, I followed advice from many on here and did the belt and braces bit with a pair of droppers to each length of rail.  I wish I'd made the layout smaller - it's not my favourite job !!!..........................:???::???::???:

I hope my long crossing will arrive tomorrow then I can start laying the low level circle (once the necessary boards are built).  Once that's in place, I can sit and watch the trains go by ...............:cheers

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I just dropped by to your railway thread Peter.
Wow you have been busy and its no small railway you are building either!
I love the discourse on electrical thingy,s a subject I tend to find rather like understanding the finer points of quantum mechanic,s.
Best of luck with this adventure.

Derek

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Peter you sly old dog, ;-). I came across your layout thread. I never knew you built this and boy what a size, its huge. Tremendous work mate.

It is especially good the way you have introduced the modules to each other. The scenery is top notch, all those years of asking questions how ever daft has paid off mate. Well done.

Look forward to more progress.

Phill

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Good heavens, is it 5 months since I last added to this thread .................:shock::shock:

I'll update things tonight - provided my plans for the next 2 hours run smoothly ..................:roll::roll::roll:

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Thanks Phill, that's kind of you but go easy on the compliments ............... (just send some money instead :roll::roll:)

I hope you're coping with things at present. :cheers

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Just seeing your layout has made my day. I recall the many times you goit so confused :mutley, we sed to take the mick, :thumbs but bless you :pathead look what you achieved. Proof to all wana be modelers, look, listen and ask as many daft questions you want.

Phill

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I've done a bit more track laying and planning since the last update.

This shot shows the, now completed, "Maxmill Junction", where the branch to the terminus station (down the centre of the room and on the left in this shot) leaves the lower circuit to climb the 1 in 80 (ish:roll:) gradient of "Maxmill Bank" (the twin right hand tracks).  The low level circuit (the left hand tracks) will ultimately form a lower level circuit around the outside of the available space and incorporate a curved through station and the main storage roads.

The end of the tube module (Chocolate Pudding Lane) can be seen bottom right above the twin railway tracks.




This is the same place but looking the other way.  The terminus station is on the right.  The curved through station will be tight up against the random stone wall at the far end.  "Pudding Lane" tube module is the black structure under the "mind your head" timber beam.




This is the site of the curved station.  The narrow duck-under where the white chair is on the left is for easy(er) access to the back of the layout.  The idea is for the station to take 6 or 7 coach Pullman trains on a 5ft radius curved platform but I think that may be slightly wishful thinking ..............



The baseboards for the curved station being fitted.  The "sonar" device on the wall is supposed to deter rodents in the winter.  We do have 3 cats but they're far too fat and too keen on lying in front of the fire watching TV.  On the left of the shot is the end of the central "tongue" with the terminus station.  There is room to walk between the boards but you can't hold a dance in there ............





This is the start of the storage roads.  Two "through mains" down the middle with 3 roads on either side.  The shortest storage road will be over 6ft long so there should be plenty of space.  There will also be a kick-back siding top left accessed via a double slip so shunting can take place without blocking the main lines.



And that's just about as far as I've got.  I've been soldering droppers and am currently awaiting deliveries of materials so that I can fit some of the Tortoise motors.

You'll note everything is very tidy - I do like a tidy workplace ............:shock::shock::shock::mutley:mutley

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 You'll note everything is very tidy - I do like a tidy workplace ............:shock::shock::shock::mutley:mutley

Peter we never expected anything less:mutley 

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Petermac wrote: You'll note everything is very tidy - I do like a tidy workplace ............:shock::shock::shock::mutley:mutley


That is very tidy compared to my railway room:shock::shock:. The progress looks good.

I can't actually get around it at the moment. It is full of boxes whcih remain unpacked as of 2yrs:cry::roll:.

This site has spurred me on to design a new layout though so some progress may be made soon-ish. But don't hold your breath:roll:.

Simon

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Thanks for the update Peter, The railway is coming on a treat.
I must say I am very impressed by your open plan baseboards and intricate woodwork. Beats my dining room table top approach by a mile.
Talking of cat,s and rodents my boss likes to bring in the odd mouse so we can play together! At least I think that,s her feline plan. The ancient Romans would have approved her arena approach.

regards,

Derek

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It's an age since I added anything to this thread - too busy scattering stuff around the rest of the forum ...............:oops::oops::oops:  I really ought to try to keep everything to do with the layout in this one thread.

I haven't had the time (or the inclination) to do much modelling this spring.  "Catchy" weather has made it a very difficult time for us poor ex-Pats down here but I have recently been fitting some Tortoise point motors controlled by a Lenz LS150 accessory decoder.

There are 6 motors in this location controlling the entrance/exit to my storage roads.  All 6 motors are mounted on a "lift out" panel so that I could work on them from above.  The board is just flipped upside down and back again depending on what I'm doing.  Once everything is fitted and tested, it will be screwed down.

I had intended to keep all my wiring neat but seemed to run out of space with this "DCC is only 2 wires thing" !!! :roll:.  I have a book with all the colour codes noted so if anything goes wrong, I'll know how to sort it.  So, if anything goes wrong, I'll know how to sort it, so, if anything goes wrong, I'll know how to sort it, so if ..................................................:lol::lol:

Here's the underside of the panel with 5 of the motors fitted, wired and tested.  The hole lower right is where the 6th motor goes but I pinched it's point to use elsewhere so need to buy another one :???::





I did come up with what I thought was a neat idea for centering the Peco points before fitting the motors.  My dropper wire is nearly a perfect fit to center the points.  A piece on each side of the closure rails, held in place with masking tape whilst the motor control wire was fed through the hole in the tie bar whilst piercing the masking tape as it went through.  It can be used if working under the baseboard too although I don't look forward to fitting motors from underneath .............:shock::shock:

Here's what it looks like:


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That first picture will eventually make a very good coloured sweater if the electrics don't work, Peter.
Good to see progress.

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that is a really good idea to center the points i will steal that idea.

are you using dcc if so do you modify the peco points for the dcc?

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jimmy styles wrote: that is a really good idea to center the points i will steal that idea.

are you using dcc if so do you modify the peco points for the dcc?

Be my guest Jimmy re the centering method - it does work and it is very simple !!

The layout is DCC and yes, I do modify the points - they're Electro frog and DCC controlled via the Lenz accessory decoder. 

I remove the little wire link between the frog rails and main rails underneath.   I add a link between the outer and closure rails using the wire that then becomes my dropper to the DCC bus.  I think this method is recommended by Peco on their instruction leaflet enclosed with the points.

I'll take some photos next time I do one so those who haven't done it before can see how easy it is.

This of course, is only for "Electrofrog" points ......................:roll:

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ddolfelin wrote: That first picture will eventually make a very good coloured sweater if the electrics don't work,............................
:mutley:mutley:mutley  In which case, perhaps I should re-name it "Brandreth Junction" - problem is, it's all in short lengths .............:cheers

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Hi Peter

You look to be progressing well :thumbs

I read through from the beginning yesterday, then got side-tracked into Trams which took me into yesterday evening.

I did stick one piece of plastic to a piece of wood on my layout though!

Another large layout for me to be envious of ................. ho, hum.


Ed

(P.S. Please tell me you tidied up especially to take the pictures)

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Ed wrote: ........................................................then got side-tracked into Trams which took me into yesterday evening.

I did stick one piece of plastic to a piece of wood on my layout though!

............................................


(P.S. Please tell me you tidied up especially to take the pictures)

Been there, done that and got 2 tee shirts Ed ..................that's why this layout has been 300 years in the making and I still can't drive a train around it. :cheers:cheers

I did tidy up for the latest couple of photos - I didn't want the whole world seeing my dirty washing.  As some of the earlier photos will confirm, I work in a total mess but I usually know which lump of timber my screwdriver is hiding under ......"usually" being the operative word.;-)

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Petermac wrote: .......that's why this layout has been 300 years in the making and I still can't drive a train around it. :cheers:cheers



Does that mean we will see Romans and horse drawn carts on the layout...?? :lol::lol:

On another note, those baseboards and sub frames do look good ! :thumbs

Cheers, Gary.

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I've been attempting to find the time to complete the remaining stud wall in my part of the attic so that I can then fill in the missing link on the first full circuit of track. 

It's all a bit like pushing the track out in the early days of the railways.  You have to build the bridges before you can cross the river ........:roll::roll:

I had around 2 metres of stud walling to finish in a very awkward corner around a hot water cylinder, half of which was to include a doorway.   Here's the "skeleton" with the door in place awaiting the plasterboard :





From the inside, plasterboard now in place but the joints still to seal.  As it's only an attic "space", I'm not doing much in the way of "decoration" up there beyond a bit of tarting up on that bad corner  :oops::oops::



The "missing link" before the circuit can be completed, is the section between the baseboard where the level is and that you can see just above the "island unit" with the light blue backdrop - only about 2 metres but I'll have to incorporate a lift-up flap or some other means of allowing access through the door from the rest of the attic (which also houses the access to the attic from the house .....)


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Hi Peter

I have stumbled over your layout having seen the wonderful shots on the Scalescenes station roof thread. I had somehow missed developments. I have to say it does look superb, and until I saw these recent pictures I had no idea that the layout was so extensive, or indeed advanced in its development. I have been reading all your projects with interest but now I can see the whole thing coming together. It looks impressive and I look forward to more.

Bob

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Thanks for your very kind comments Bob. :cheers

It's a slow job - I don't seem to get much time for modelling - however hard I try, something "more important" (according to the Memsahib)  always seems to crop up !!!

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A short "rough shot" video of the climb from "Maxmill Junction" to the terminus "Maxmill Town".  That's the station I'm currently  building the large roof for.  Also, since this vid. was shot, I've added the platforms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwYuRseI3ps&feature=youtu.be

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Another video - starting at the same place as the previous one (which is in fact, the junction from which the layout takes it's name), and just at one entrance to the tube module tunnel. 

This time, we head off on the lower level main line circuit (the previous video went off to the right up "Maxmill Bank" to the "Town" station.)  Still no scenery, just the bare tracks but it does give an idea of the layout in full.

The truck mounted camera (a Hero 3) clobbered a waiting blood and custard train near the end - sorry about that - and is too wide to go through the tunnel under "Chocolate Pudding Lane" tube module so stops there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqvlI0BQ3Ow&feature=youtu.be

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Looking Great Peter,
Even under the domestic whip you are making great progress.
These large railway builds are not for the impatient types!
Thanks for shareing.
Derek.

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Great videos Peter........I had a definite sense of deja vu being transported around the layout which I saw in the flesh last September...............very nostalgic!

Loved the sound ......you must stop tempting me.....................was that the Pannier?

I like the idea of a wagon mounted camera.......when you have time could you post a few photos and details......I am definitely tempted here!

Cheers

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Here's the camera I used for the videos - A "Go-Pro Hero 3".

It's one of those clever sports cameras.  I usually wear it when I'm ski jumping or sky diving .......................:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:




I took it out of the case and sat it on a truck chassis.  It's too wide and, to get it balanced, it's not sitting centrally on the truck.  Cornering at speed is certainly a no-no !!  :lol::lol:  I've also recently acquired a key-ring "spy camera" which is much happier on a "OO" Gauge wagon and passes through Chocolate Pudding Lane tunnel with ease.   On the down side, it needs far more light than the Hero and resolution is not as good by a long way.  I'll check to see if I've uploaded a video taken with that for comparison.

Her's the "Hero" mounted on the truck chassis:


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I enjoyed the vids, Peter.  I can see progress on the layout - even if you can't.  :lol:

I'm impressed with the track laying.  Very smooth.  :thumbs

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Hi Peter,

Just watched the videos, really good. You have a broad selection of loco's there. The area's where you have progressed to the scenics look excellent and your carpentry skills in creating these open baseboards are very good indeed.

Absolutely jealous of the space you have there, looks massive.

Cheers for now

Toto

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MaxSouthOz wrote: ......................  I can see progress on the layout - even if you can't.  :lol:

.....................................

Phew - that's a relief Max. :thumbs:thumbs

I've spent half of today chained to a craft knife but there's almost nothing to show for it.  I often wish I'd opted for a "plank" ...:roll::roll:

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Petermac wrote:
I've spent half of today chained to a craft knife but there's almost nothing to show for it.  I often wish I'd opted for a "plank" ...:roll::roll:

Oh good......a second arch......2 down 12(?) to go!:lol:

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Great video Peter, thanks for sharing. I see that you like the UP as well...?? ;-)

Cheers, Gary.

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John Dew wrote: Petermac wrote:
I've spent half of today chained to a craft knife but there's almost nothing to show for it.  I often wish I'd opted for a "plank" ...:roll::roll:

Oh good......a second arch......2 down 12(?) to go!:lol:


:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley  Almost John.............:thumbs

The UP stuff was for another idea I had Gary - currently on the back burner until I get Maxmill AND the trams done .................:roll::roll::roll:

I do like US outline though and, compared with UK outline, it's often cheap as chips. :cheers

Sorry Toto - I didn't answer your post.  :oops::oops:  The layout is roughly 30ft x 10ft and it's surprising how that space gets swallowed up in "OO" Gauge. :shock:  Unfortunately, "N" is just too small for me but a great gauge if you can see it.  I also wish some bright spark would bring back "TT" or 3mm - it would be ideal for people like me - short of space and blind as a bat. :thumbs:thumbs

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Hi Peter,

I'm the same, could not even contemplate N gauge. In saying that, even if I could I still prefer OO ( space aside ) as it's just a bit more to look at for your buck.

Anyway onwards and upwards. :pedal

Cheers

Toto

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Totally agree with you about TT/3mm Peter. :thumbs

One of my primary school friends (blimey, that's going back a bit), had a smallish Triang layout with a Castle class and I think a Jinty, few coaches etc, but I was jealous of how much more you could get in the same space compared to my OO gauge.

Getting back to Maxmill Junction, great videos :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

The track looks a bit near the edge of the baseboards up the incline. Seem to remember you were deciding on what scenery was going between Maxmill bank and the lower level, but can't remember what your plan was for the other side.


Ed

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Nothing wrong with N scale,my eyes are bad and i manage.You just need stronger glasses.:mutley

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The area between the lower level tracks and the bank will be industrial Ed - mill buildings and factories etc.  The bank edge will have low relief structures to act as both a "fence" to stop stock falling off and to hide the trains climbing the bank - i.e. the mills will be taller than the banking.  At the rear of the bank, I'll just fir a piece of MDF or hardboard as a guard fence.

Ground Zero in the industrial area will be below the main lines and I propose to have some trams running somewhere in there to serve the mills etc.........:roll::roll:  My aim is to make it a dark, dingy area a bit like John Dew's canal-side area on his wonderful Granby layout - this sort of thing: 

 

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Hi Peter
Finally found the thread. Glad to see it is taking so long. It makes me feel less of a tortoise.
Exceptional stuff but only one minor problem............................ about these trams.......:mutley:mutley:mutley.

Keep up the good work
Jim

Last edited on Tue Apr 8th, 2014 08:54 am by The Bankie

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Petermac you dark old horse,all this time you have strung me along ,that is some layoput and well put together too,
:pathead:thumbs;-):cool:

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Peter, it's the dingy holes that make a layout ;-)

Phil

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Glad to see the video, gives some sense of size of the layout.

Don't forget to leave room for a mill, 22x30" to include the stream, or 15x30" for the building and wheel pit...

Doug

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Thanks for the positive comments guys. :thumbs

Progress is pitifully slow I'm afraid - lots of ideas but too little in the way of spare time ...........:cry::cry:

There's plenty of room for big mills in there Doug - the area between "Maxmill Bank" and the main lines.  It's also where all those "dirty holes" will go Phil - together with a proposed tram circuit although I've discovered a slight problem with clearance for the tram overheads under the railway tracks - a lack of "forward planning" I fear .......;-)

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A Class 105 DMU on a local service passes the engineering works en route for Maxmill Town as a pannier awaits clearance in the engineering siding having delivered further supplies




Shortly afterwards, a Std Class 4 gives a warning blast on her whistle to alert the dustcart waiting at the level crossing - temporarily a dangerous place since the gates were taken away for refurbishment (if you believe that, you'll believe anything .......:oops::oops::oops:)




Gresley V2  "Durham School", the largest loco able to use the turntable at Maxmill Town, gathers pace as she crosses Maxmill Beck heading south with a London bound train.
 

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Nice pictures Peter. They remind me that I took up this hobby because I wanted to play trains. My layout has been buried under crap for weeks. I'm very envious.

Last edited on Tue Apr 8th, 2014 11:17 am by Wizmacnz

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Must agree nice pictures :thumbs

Thought you'd show us the Derby Lightweight with the Hattons decoder Peter, or have you stuck a Lenz silver in it now.

Ed

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Superb stuff. Slow going...well I know the feeling. You have a couple of hours of spsre time, you start ballasting and weathering 6 inches of track and in a blink your two hours are gone. That is the way to go though as finish is what makes a superb layout. Again well done.

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Thanks Henry. :thumbs

At this time of year, I get very little spare time so it takes even longer to make any headway.  As you so rightly say, a couple of hours disappears in the time it takes just to get up into the attic and remember what I was half way through doing last time I was up there...............:cry::cry:

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I can't believe it's 6 months since I added to this thread although in modelling terms, I do very little, if anything, during the summer months - far too busy elsewhere ................:cry::cry::cry:

Since I knew I was going to acquire Dooferdog's fantastic "Bear's End Mill"  (http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=12796&forum_id=21),  my mind has been working overtime to think of the best place to site it on Maxmill Junction Railway.

I decided it would fill in the corner between the block wall and the "Maxmill Engineering" module - something like this:



The road section beyond the mill, sits above the front arched bridge and is quite a bit higher than the main mill baseboard so hopefully, the differences in level will allow the outer circuit main line tracks you can see close to the block wall to pass underneath.

Connection from engineering works to mill would be made by removing the stone walling at the end of this siding, creating a cutting with a hump backed overbridge and linking up to the left hand track of the mill module (the right hand one is a siding).  The cork covered board carrying the curved tracks to the right will be trimmed back closer to the tracks and the whole mill module will move closer to the block wall.  Hopefully, that will allow the mill to move over to the right sufficiently for the tracks to line up: 




The stone wall is just embossed card and the landform is plaster cloth on top of chicken mesh so chopping it out was no problem:





The idea is that, instead of this siding serving just the engineering works, it will continue on, through the cutting, to the mill beyond.  Once the baseboards are fixed, I'll need to revisit the landforms to avoid that "toy train" tunnel effect at this point.  Hopefully, there will be enough space between the engineering works and the mill to blend the hill in a little:


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Hi Petermac,

It looks good. You won a watch inheriting the mill and I think it has gone to a very worthy home. Making the transition between the scenes will keep you out of trouble for a while.:mutley

Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

Cheers

Toto

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toto wrote: Hi Petermac,

  ......................................Making the transition between the scenes will keep you out of trouble for a while.:mutley....................


It certainly will Toto ..........:roll::roll:

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I think you better stop in your tracks Peter, it simply won't fit into your scene. You better send it to me...:mutley:mutley

Honestly though, it will look great once fully bedded in. Keep us posted on the installation.

Cheers, Gary.

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I got the axe out tonight and made a start on the necessary alterations to make room for "Bear's End Mill".


This is the end of the storage tracks which I have started to dismantle to make a tighter curve and move the bridge closer to that pesky hot water tank.  Some points have already been removed and track lifted:




My first attempt at overwriting using "Faststone Image Viewer".  The red cross-hatch area is where the main mill module will go and the green line shows where the new track line will be compared to the old route.  The hill section which fits behind and higher than the main mill, allows me an 8 inch clearance between the block wall and mill module and allows sufficient headroom to route the tracks under the hill in a tunnel:




This board is 6 inches wide and, once up on it's risers, will carry the new trackwork under the mill hill section:




The old removable bridge section has been dismantled, as have all the points and track at the end of the storage roads.  The new bridging section will also have to be semi-removable to allow for future access to the water tank. It will mean a slightly tighter curve but, as it's on a non-scenic part of the layout, that's not really a major problem :


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Hi Petermac,

Looks like you have your work cut out there but it will be worth it to get everything fitting in.

Good stuff though

Toto

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ah.... the axe... the axe.... 

At least only sparingly applied.... 

... and well worth the effort to fit in Bear's end.

Good to see some work on Maxmill Peter.

cheers

Marty

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Faststone, hmmm, that looks useful, quite the techie eh?

Good luck,

Doug.

(Off to the Menin Gate today, more of Shelaghs ancestry stuff...)

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Thanks for mentioning Faststone Peter,i always wondered how people did that.

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Doug pointed me in the Faststone direction Alan - if I can make something of it, you surely can. :thumbs

Not sure "enjoy" is the right word for a trip to the Menin Gate Doug but have a safe journey.  Presumably, you'll be there in time for the daily "Last Post"- 8pm I think but, whilst I've visited the gate itself several times, I've never been there for a whole evening - my boat leaves Zeebrugge at 7pm.  My best to Shelagh.

I'll be up there again myself Thursday week on my way to UK via Zeebrugge and usually spend an hour or two wandering around the Ypres area - very poignant, the more so this year.

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:)Looking good Peter.I see you are also a fully paid up member of the axe club ;-).

Doofs Mill will settle in nicely in its new home and give you lots of creative fun on the base board front.

Have a good trip.

Derek.

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Thanks Derek. :thumbs

There's a double advantage with the mill - not only is it a fantastic model but it is also something "in situ" for me to study in detail to work out how he does these things.

Looking at the internet is all well and good but if you don't have a terminal in your attic, it's a bit difficult to pop down to check the detail on something you're trying to blend in.

I haven't been here much myself recently - pressures of "other things" but it's good to see you back on here yourself - take care. :cheers

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In keeping with the policy of acquiring other people's work, the Maxmill Junction Railway board of Directors are delighted to announce that, whilst the Chairman was over in UK last week, he managed to add some further property to the Company portfolio.

The station buildings from Bradford Wheregate were seeking a new home - perhaps in warmer climes - and I was there to oblige:




Mojo, whilst obviously sorry to see it go, assured me he was happy with the destination.

Many thanks Pat - watch this space for my ideas for it's new site.

You can see more of this fantastic layout and building here:  http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=1861&forum_id=21&highlight=bradford+wheregate


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:):)I am glad you rescued that great building Peter. Its a beauty and I am sure Mojo is glad to see it preserved.

It must have been a job carting it back to France or did you get SWMBO to act as porter.    :mutley.

Cheers,

Derek.

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I remember admiring that very much first time around, with all the peeps and vehicles it seemed you could almost hear it!

Good job you have a big shoe-horn, too.

Doug

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Wow.... another great save Peter.

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What an amazing guy you are Peter. Over the last few years you have acquired three of the models that I have most admired......I dont know how you do it but any day now I expect I will see parts of Penhayle Bay

Many Congratulations.........and at least here I have an appropriate emoticon :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Last edited on Wed Nov 19th, 2014 03:27 am by John Dew

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Please pass my congratulations on to the Maxmill Junction Railway board of Directors, for another excellent acquisition.

(Glad to see you're still recycling Peter)


Ed



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You can imagine my delight when Mojo asked if I wanted it .............:hmm:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb:doublethumb

As you say John, 3 of the "greats" have found their way to Maxmill - if you're reading this Rick, Penhayle, or parts of it, would fit in very well ..............:lol::lol::lol:

I may have to rename the layout to something akin to "Other People's Work" .................or, as you suggest Ed, "South West France Recycling" ...............:roll::roll::roll:

I haven't been in the attic since I got home but have a very good idea where it will be installed.  I just need to check some measurements (or alter the attic to incorporate it .......;-))


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Thanks for arranging the preservation and listed building orders, Peter. I hope they fit readily into their new (warmer) home.
 

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I had a little spare time this evening so popped into the attic to see if my idea for the placement of Bradford Wheregate would work out and fortunately, it will fit like a glove. :thumbs

It will form the road level station complex for the below ground through station and fits snugly in the corner I'd hoped it would.

Here it is - temporarily "mocked up" to give an idea of future developments:



The "urban" area in the foreground is Maxmill Town terminus at the end of the central "tongue" and "Bradford Wheregate" is on the outer circuit.


The idea is that trains will disappear (on the right) beneath the station forecourt and reappear in a wall lined cutting (front left) well below ground level.  There will be 2 curved platform faces for the main part, approximately 6ft long and, within the lined cutting will be two further faces each with a dead-end terminal track for the local services (DMU or 2 coach suburban steam train) up to Maxmill Town:



Road access will be along the stone wall you can just see to the left and will connect to the "Chocolate Pudding Lane" tube module which is about 6ft behind the photographer. Ideally, there will be a tram service between the two.  There is also room to take the road off into "the rest of the world" to the right to offer slightly more realism.  I had hoped to have room to fit in a tram turnaround off to the right but, even allowing for the tight radii trams can negotiate, I doubt there is enough space.

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Hi Petermac,

That looks like a substantial building. You certainly would not gave rattled that together. Very impressive. The whole area looks like it will be effective on the multiple levels.
Keep the pictures coming as it develops please,

Toto

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Hi Peter

You are right......... the site for the new acquisition looks perfect but I think it also presents some challenges.

I worry that it may dominate the scene below which, I sense, was originally planned to be the centrepiece of the layout. As shown it will be difficult to meld in the low relief High Street buildings for instance.

I think it could be done very effectively ( I am reminded of Tetley Mills) but it may involve repositioning some of the minor players.

Will the board be cut away in some fashion to give a glimpse of the platforms serving Wheregate? Not easy but I think it is important to establish a visual connection between the building and its railway.

I do hope this doesnt appear to be negative and by all means ignore it.......but its better to think about these issues early on 

Last edited on Wed Nov 26th, 2014 04:22 am by John Dew

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Looking good Peter. :thumbs

Terry

Last edited on Wed Nov 26th, 2014 09:19 am by col.stephens

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I can take no credit for this building other than transporting it from Tyneside to France ................Mojo is the guy who takes the bow. :thumbs

I think I need to post some kind of track plan John.  This station is in a different place and on a different level to Maxmill Town so each will be "self supporting" units.  The platforms at "Wheregate" will be visible after emerging from the "tunnel" beneath the buildings/roadways in a cutting.  I rather like the idea of them disappearing underground - one might wonder "what's under there ?" .............:roll:

The photo was taken to include a part of the "Town" station area so you could see where it fits in to the overall plan of things.  The problem is, I can see it in it's entirety but you can't. :cry:

I'm not much good at track planning on paper but I'll see if I can post a simplified version "a la tube map" rather than the masterpieces I'm used to seeing from other contributors.............. watch this space ...........;-)


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Really pleased it fits the bill, Peter. I'm missing it already.

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You could build another one Pat - I can't !!! :lol::lol::lol:

If I can transform my visions into reality, it will look absolutely fantastic.  :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

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I think I need to post some kind of track plan John.  This station is in a different place and on a different level to Maxmill Town so each will be "self supporting" units.  The platforms at "Wheregate" will be visible after emerging from the "tunnel" beneath the buildings/roadways in a cutting.  I rather like the idea of them disappearing underground - one might wonder "what's under there ?" .............:roll:

The photo was taken to include a part of the "Town" station area so you could see where it fits in to the overall plan of things.  The problem is, I can see it in it's entirety but you can't. :cry:

I'm not much good at track planning on paper but I'll see if I can post a simplified version "a la tube map" rather than the masterpieces I'm used to seeing from other contributors.............. watch this space ...........;-)




My apologies Peter.......I really should know better than to make off the cuff comments based on my hazy recollection of a very brief visit..........at least I told you to ignore it:lol:  .........a map will help though

Kind Regards

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“Bear’s End Mill” is now installed in  it’s permanent site on Maxmill Junction Railway.
This view from Maxmill Engineering module shows the driver’s eye approach.



 
This shot shows the site in relation to the engineering module.  Most of the hill, pale green/brown and just beyond the corrugated covered loading dock, will have to be bulldozed out of the way to make the contours more sensible but I have some idea of what I’ll do.
 

The separate unit forming the hill and road tunnel beyond the actual mill buildings is only wedged in there for this shot and will be lifted out of the way so the ply back scene can be painted.



 

I think it fits almost perfectly and has made a superb corner unit.  The low level circuit can be seen running under the road whilst the high level tracks to the terminus station can be seen curving away to the right in the foreground before descending Maxmill Bank to join the main circuit at a double junction from where the layout takes it’s name.


 

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Huzzah!!

Doug

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I like the way you've built up the topography, Peter. On my next layout I must move away from flat boards. Look forward to viewing your progress.
  

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:):)Lovely scene Peter,Maxmill Junction is certainly going high end in the railway stakes.

Different levels also add a huge amount to the scenics and operating potential.

Have a great festive season with Liz.

Cheers,

Derek.

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Thanks all. :thumbs

I like the "raised bed" type of open topped baseboards because it allows both above and below track level scenery.  I wish I'd lifted the tracks even higher - they're only about 3 inches above the framework - because it would have allowed me to have a good bridge/viaduct somewhere.  However, it does offer more latitude in landscaping than flat boards.

i'm assuming by "Maxmill being at the high end in the railway stakes", you're referring to the altitude of the raised trackbeds Derek. :roll::roll:  It's certainly a very long way from "high end" in modelling terms - you only need to compare my own work to the examples on here of Doug and Pat's work to see how far I still have to go before it's anything to shout about.

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Petermac wrote: I can take no credit for this building other than transporting it from Tyneside to France ................Mojo is the guy who takes the bow. :thumbs


 I thought that station building looked familiar Peter. I certainly looks good where it is but it is difficult to imagine how all the various parts fit together to make the whole so a track plan would be good.

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Just found a clip (several months old and poor You Tube quality ) of a DMU pushing my camera truck around the layout.  Done before the new acquisitions of "Bear's End Mill" and "Bradford Wheregate".

It does a low level outer circuit then climbs Maxmill Bank up to the high level terminus station.

Excuse the "junk" around the sides - Maxmill is still very much "work in progress" ............

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCqFBuPQW-o&feature=youtu.be

I'll post up a schematic track plan shortly Trevor. :thumbs

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I've been playing around some more with my keyring camera and a video editing programme (Arcsoft Showbiz) that I have on the laptop.

I copied several versions back from the editing programme to the computer to see what format offered the best reproduction.  AVI & WMV files were dreadful - a distortion of the near forground and constant "shimmer".  MOV offered the best reproduction but I couldn't get the sound to copy on the edit ............   This uploaded one is a DV file and, cinematographer aside, offers a watchable upload.

Having watched the originals, the edits, the copy back and now the You Tube uploaded versions, it's amazing how much changes in the "digital transfer" operations - even allowing for the fact that the keyring camera lens is probably only a piece of perspex  ..................:roll::roll:

The following clip (which took almost 3 years to upload to Youtube ..........) shows the layout arrangement - particularly in relation to Mojo's "Bradford Wheregate" station buildings, Dooferdog's "Bear's End Mill" and Geoff R's "Chocolate Pudding Lane" tube module.  Hopefully, it will avoid the necessity of doing a plan for Trevor (Chinahand) ;-)

The difference between the low level circuit and the high level terminus is about 3.5 inches (very roughly 8.5 cms).

The DMU reverses out of the fiddle yard then completes 1 and a half circuits of the main line before exiting right,  up Maxmill bank,  passing Bear's End Mill and Maxmill Engineering on the way to the terminus station.

You'll see how the planned position of the "Bradford Wheregate" station buildings will stand above the tracks of the subterranean platforms at the future  "Maxmill Wheregate" station.

Shortly after "Wheregate", trains pass through the tunnel beneath the "Chocolate Pudding Lane" tube module at the end of which, is the double junction from where the layout takes it's name.

Straight on to complete the circular route (so I can watch the trains go by) or swing right to climb the Maxmill bank gradient before passing "Bear's End Mill", "Maxmill Engineering" and then on to the terminus at "Maxmill Town".

Future plans include linking "Wheregate" station area with "Pudding Lane" by a street level tram route.

Excuse all the assorted "junk" around the layout - this wasn't designed as a screen test .........................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kmPb9pRpJM

p.s. Does anyone know how to upload to You Tube in less that a lifetime ...........?

Chinahand
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That's a nice little video Peter and it's put the various pictures you've posted into context with the whole layout. 

One thing I would suggest though is that you reset the date on your video camera. I know it's 2015 now but I seem to have missed the whole of Spring and Summer if it's 24th September already. :hmm

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Hi Peter

Nice video, enjoyed that :thumbs

Shows the layout of the layout very well.



Ed


PS The upload speed is all down to your internet connection/service provider, although I believe some file types upload at different speeds.



 

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Chinahand wrote: ........................................................

One thing I would suggest though is that you reset the date on your video camera. I know it's 2015 now but I seem to have missed the whole of Spring and Summer if it's 24th September already. :hmm

:mutley:mutley  To reset the timecode Trevor, I'd have to find out how to do that and, as you probably know, I don't do "instructions".


Joking aside, the very poor instruction leaflet that came with the £15 camera makes absolutely no reference to settings beyond "stop" "start", "video" or "still" ....................:hmm:hmm

If it's on the memory card, then I could probably reset that. :roll:  I'll look into it before winter comes around again ................ :cheers

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Great video Peter.My first real experience of sound.You've got me thinking now.Sound in N scale.:hmm

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Hi Peter, I too was very impressed with the sound. I may have missed it somewhere in your thread, but what chip was it? I have several DMU's that I now feel should make a bit of a noise.

I couldn't help noticing the platform canopy as you come into the station. I knew I should have provided instructions. They go up in the air on on pole things.

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:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley  The station canopies are just there to see how far down the platform they'll come after the large overall roof, and to see if they're wide enough for my two faced platform Peter.  In fact, as you'll have seen, they're not quite wide enough being maybe 5mm narrower than the platform itself.  Another cm in width would have made them perect. :???:  Still, I'll live with that - afterall, I won't be one of the passengers getting wet !! :cool wink

The chip in this DMU is, I think, a Howes chip.  It does take a bit of "proper driving" to get the sounded locos right - not just a question of pressing buttons.  You'll have noticed I got it wrong as it drew to a halt in the station.  Revving the guts out of the poor engine as it inched it's way past the kettle ............:oops::oops::oops:  It did finally notch down as it came to a halt but I was worried ............

The next DMU I do will be one of Paul Chetter's Digitrains offerings.  I've got one of his in a Std. Class 3 - cleverly fitted by Max - and I'm over the moon with it.  In fact, loco purchases have virtually ground to a halt as what "stock" funds I have, are channelled into sound chips rather than more "wheels".

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Great video Peter.

Nice decent run for the trains. The Mill looks great sitting in the corner and the approach view from the camera is fantastic. :thumbs 

I'm looking foward to more scenics on the layout. ;-)

Cheers, Gary.

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Nice to see how it's all coming along, Peter. Now have a better idea about what you're up to.
  

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Another cm in width would have made them perect.

I would have made you some 1cm wider if you'd asked. The standard ones are just coincidentally the same width as the platforms on my layout :mutley

I think I will be spending the next year or so improving my rolling stock. The demolition of my Bidley Layout starts next week and I think a new railway room is at least a year away. I'll be watching your progress with vicarious interest.

Last edited on Fri Jan 2nd, 2015 08:09 am by Wizmacnz

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It's some time sincve I added anything to this thread but I haven't been totalliy idle since January.

I've recently bought a Class 08 "Gronk" from Paul Chetter with his sound project and a fantastic "stay alive" on board.

I had my doubts about uploading this video to YouTube..............

It's taken with an old Sony Handycam which requires loads of light.  I'd tested for the best placement of a 150watt halogen flood and a second LED floodlight  - then "pow", the halogen tube blew.  Of course, I didn't have a spare so, my appologies for the poor quality of the lighting and cameraman, to say nothing of how boring the end result has turned out to be, but here's the "gronk" in action.

I'm still a total novice regarding "driving" this loco but there are so many "driving options" and sounds programmed into it, that it's quite bewildering.  I forgot to do the coupling up clash, the hook up of the couplings and the taking up of the slack sounds, to name but 3 .........

Things I did remember were the hand priming of the motor before start-up and the wheel squeal.  You can't really hear the windscreen wipers ...............

Oh yes, please bear in mind that the track had not been specifically cleaned and the point where the siding joins the main line near the houses, is an insulfrog point ..............believe me, this "stay alive" is totally magic  :cheers:cheers:cheers

Of course, it goes without saying that my thanks go to Paul who has, I'm sure you'll agree, done a superb job of the project.
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qtSKGgYK5U&feature=youtu.be

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That's a very impressive bit of kit now Peter. Maybe one day I'll look at getting sound into some of my N Gauge locos.

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That is some great sound coming from the O8. Paul has done a fantastic job. I keep hearing these impressive sounds fom various locos and think to myself, 'one day...' Maybe I need to get intouch with Paul about sound for my 08.. ;-)

Cheers, Gary.

 

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Petermac wrote: I had my doubts about uploading this video to YouTube..............


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qtSKGgYK5U&feature=youtu.be

Glad you did Peter, brilliant, enjoyed watching :thumbs


Ed

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Very impressive, Paul does an excellent job!:)
Hoping to send my A4 to him soon!

Cheers
Ron

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I,ve just enjoyed watching your video Pauls work is fantastic! I was talking to Paul at the Mansfield exhibition and he demonstrated the stay alive function on a little 0-4-0 diesel shunter by setting it of running -with sound- lifting it of the track and it carried on running along his demo, stand table!! if he hadn,t stopped it, it would have carried itself off the end of the table!!, love it.  :).
Pete.

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Hi Peter,

I must admit, that was fantastic. You don't give yourself enough credit when it comes to the driving . It was nice to see. As for the sound, I think I will be having a word with Mr Chetter.

I wouldn't mind one of my 08's kitted out and I'd like to hear what he could do with a class 22 and 25.

If you have any more diesel sounds ....... Get them up please. Thanks for taking the time to post that

Cheers

Toto

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Hi Peter

The video was a very impressive demonstration of the Zimo chip.........both sound and running. An 0-6-0 crawling at that speed over insulfrog points was astonishing. I have googled CS68 without success to try and find the manufacturer of the "stay alive" capacitor. I will be very interestd to hear what Paul uses on your Pannier (and I definitely look forward to the video of that!)

There was some discussion on RMWeb about using TCS keep alive capacitors with Zimo decoders and Zimo have their own brand which they call energy support (or similar). I have used and like the TCS capacitors but I am very dubious about squeezing one into a pannier.

Another aspect of the video I enjoyed was to see the continued development of the links between the different modules......its really coming together:thumbs

:cheers

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Many thanks John - methinks, having watched it again myself, you're being far too kind.  It really is a dreadful video :oops::oops::oops:.    When I get the pannier back, I'll try a different camera !!!!

The "SC 68" is manufactured by Zimo - it costs £22 ex Digitrains and it's tiny.  Paul says he thinks he can get one on the cab floor.  Painted matt black, you wouldn't see it.

I've never used the TCS version but have used the DCC Concepts one.  My grouse with theirs is that, when it cuts in, the loco seems to take a leap foward.  There's absolutely no noticable cut in point with this one - it's just completely smooth.  Paul was true to his word when he said you wouldn't know if power was coming from the rails or the cap.  If the pannier performs nearly as well, I'll be over the moon.

I've spent what bit of spare time I've had recently, fitting point motors to the points on the station board.  A mix of SEEPs and Peco surface mounted.  The former because I had them in stock and the latter because I forgot to drill holes for the control wires when I laid the double slips.  I've still got another unused LS150 so the next batch of points will make use of that.  Having wired up 15 SEEP/Peco motors, I'm inclined to agree that Tortoise are much easier on both time and wire !!!  I used cheap mini SPDT switches which I also had in stock so the switches were no great expense but I've certainly eaten up some wire !!!

I'm still pondering the gap between Doug's mill and my "Engineering" module (where you saw the cornflake packet strips).  If I want to keep the bridge over the main line, I need to blend in the landform from track level to track + 3" in a fairly short space.  I'm not sure how that would look.  It may be that I remove the bridge, hill and retaining walls although I don't really want to if I can find a way around it.

After that, my plan is to continue going right from the mill towards my "industrial valley" which butts up to the tube module...........then there's the "Wheregate Station" area and tram circuit to look at .....................:roll::roll::roll:;-)

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Petermac wrote: Many thanks John - methinks, having watched it again myself, you're being far too kind.  It really is a dreadful video :oops::oops::oops:.    When I get the pannier back, I'll try a different camera !!!!

Well I truly enjoyed it......the only suggestion I would have is a health warning for the hard of hearing:lol:

Your trailer specially mentioned the hand priming at the start.......but for the first minute I could hear nothing.....I cranked up the laptop sound, changed the hearing aid batteries...........and then.......finally.....shot out of my chair.......the dogs (equally elderly but less hard of hearing) were not, I am afraid, impressed:lol::lol:



The "SC 68" is manufactured by Zimo - it costs £22 ex Digitrains and it's tiny. Paul says he thinks he can get one on the cab floor. Painted matt black, you wouldn't see it. I've never used the TCS version but have used the DCC Concepts one. My grouse with theirs is that, when it cuts in, the loco seems to take a leap foward. There's absolutely no noticable cut in point with this one - it's just completely smooth. Paul was true to his word when he said you wouldn't know if power was coming from the rails or the cap. If the pannier performs nearly as well, I'll be over the moon.
Thats exactly the experience I had with the DCC Concepts Stay Alive......I am afraid I cannot recommend them

I assume the S68s have to be attached to a Zimo decoder? I am really looking forward to seeing your Pannier


I'm still pondering the gap between Doug's mill and my "Engineering" module (where you saw the cornflake packet strips). If I want to keep the bridge over the main line, I need to blend in the landform from track level to track + 3" in a fairly short space. I'm not sure how that would look. It may be that I remove the bridge, hill and retaining walls although I don't really want to if I can find a way around it.
I thought it had lots of potential. I was thinking of a cutting blasted out of the rock.....a bit like the entry into Liverpool Lime Street......smoke blackened damp shiny rock ....mossy ledges..... built in walls at the base with a refuge or two.........:thumbs



After that, my plan is to continue going right from the mill towards my "industrial valley" which butts up to the tube module...........then there's the "Wheregate Station" area and tram circuit to look at .....................:roll::roll::roll:;-)
Its the the tram circuit with RR&Co that I am eagerly anticipating

:cheers:cheers

Last edited on Tue Mar 17th, 2015 01:59 am by John Dew

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Brilliant video Peter,you underestimate your ability.The sound is fantastic and you have got me thinking.I've got a couple of 08's but where everything would go in N scale defeats me at the moment.

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toto wrote: As for the sound, I think I will be having a word with Mr Chetter.

I wouldn't mind one of my 08's kitted out and I'd like to hear what he could do with a class 22 and 25.





As it happens, I'm loading my new ProtoDrive Class 25 to a pair of N gauge Farish 'Rats' just now.

N gauge locos with 'working brakes', who'd have thought it?

I'll ty to post a video as soon as I can get to it.

Anyone can 'have a word with' me, just PM me to join my ZIMO News Group for all the latest developments.

Kind regards,

Paul

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If you had visited my demo stand at the East Anglian show last weekend, I could have shown you how.

Kind regards,

Paul

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ZIMO decoders have been widely regarded for many years as having the best motor control available. Many of the standard ZIMO features were added to ESU Loksound decoders when they launched the V4.0.

I think the decoder has a greater bearing on the way the stay alive capacitor works than the capacitor itself (provided the latter meets all the required criteria). I have used the DCC Concepts stay alive with ZIMO decoders without problem. In fact, next month's Hornby Magazine, issue 95, shows how I one fitted to a Hornby J94, along with sound, smoke, firebox flicker and working loco lamps.

The TCS decoders use a pack of Super Capacitors as their stay alive solution. I make DIY versions of these, shown in past issues of Hornby Magazine, for less than £10, which allows the loco to do this: View them, or skip to, the end to see the stay alive capacity. Both use my own DIY supercap solution.

In 00

https://youtu.be/l7W_Q6b-lwc

and in 0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA25MG9LLAo

The particular type fitted to Peter's model is a ZIMO SC68. Performance is between that of the DCC Concepts unit and the TCS pack.

The advantage is in its compact and flat format, allowing fitment where other types simple would not go.

ZIMO has a unique way to avoid parking on a dead or dirty peice of track, so that re-starts are always possible.

Kind regards,

Paul

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Is it really 12 months since I added anything to this thread .......................:oops::oops::oops:

I have had lots of problems with this junction.




It is made up of 2 x Peco insulfrog large Y points and an insulfrog diamond crossing.
Problems have mainly been due to shorting on the diamond frogs and the picture shows some rough looking “extra” insulation on the frogs using nail varnish.  This temporarily stopped the shorts but gradually wore off with track cleaning and any short wheelbase, or slow moving locos simply stalled there. 

It will be replaced by these:



 2 x large Y electrofrog points and an electrofrog diamond – all in Code 75 Finsecale (simply because I had the diamond in stock so opted to use it).  As the rest of the layout is Code 100, obviously I’ll have to use some Code 100 to Code 75 adapter rails manufactured by Peco to connect the junction to the rest of the layout.

The junction will be controlled by the following:



 A Mega Points Multipanel Processor (top left) which drives
 A Mega Points Servo Controller (top right)
 Actuation of the points is via the white mini servos (centre) and frog polarity is changed by the micro switches (also actuated by the servo arm)
 
Frog polarity on the diamond crossing will be via a Tam Valley dual Frog Juicer  ( centre bottom)
 
The reason I opted for the servos on the points rather than using a hexfrog juicer for the whole junction is that I’d read that you need a short rail break between one frog and the next using a juicer otherwise, should the polarity need changing on the 2nd frog,  it may also change the polarity on the first one whilst the loco is still on it.  Adding a rail break, however short, on this junction would have thrown the geometry way out.

Marty
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Wow...that will keep you entertained for a while Peter. I think you've made the right choice going for electro frog and servos.

Hope it's not to much of a beast to get operational.

Marty

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I've just been "DCC modifying" the Peco electrofrog points as per normal by snipping the link wire across the rail gap and bonding the stock and switch rails in the gap provided.

Has anyone used these "new" electrofrog points ?

"Snipping" the tiny wire link (as per the Peco instructions) is wishful thinking .............:roll::roll:  On the older version, they sat in a small cutaway and it was easy to get small snippers at them or, on occasion, to simply "ping" them off with a small screwdriver blade.

These new ones sit down in a deep gulley only slightly wider than the wire itself and I found it impossible to snip them in situ, having to carefully prise them from side to side to break one of the spot solder points then pull the off with pliers.  Who in heavens name, designed these darned things ..................:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

This is the trench in which they sit (I've removed the wire itself) :
 


This probably shows the depth of the trench better.  The "wobbly edge" was caused by prising with a small screwdriver to break one spotweld :


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Sounds daft, but I did mine with some nail scissors :roll:


Ed



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It's been some time since I posted on this thread - actually, some time since I posted much at all !!!

We have been trying to sell our house here in France and finally, we have found a buyer so are moving to our other house - the one we used to let.

Having decided to sell, work, understandably, ground to a halt on Maxmill and, beyond a bit of messing about, nothing was done.

It is now time to dismantle and store - currently, there is nowhere suitable for a layout in the new house.  The plan is to erect some kind of dedicated "model railway" building.  Not sure what this will be yet and it might end up as being just a garage type building.  Whatever, a "railway room" is a priority requirement - naturally only after Liz has got her "priorities" sorted !!

For those who remember Maxmill, this area used to be the terminus station :

Before:



After:





The various "modules" - Chocolate Pudding Lane tube station, Maxmill engineering and Doug's fabulous Bear's End mill, together with Mojo's wonderful "Bradford Wheregate" station buildings will be carefully preserved for incorporation in the new layout.

We move mid January so next spring will see the first green shoots of "Maxmill Mk 2".
 
 

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Good luck with the move Peter, don't expect January is exactly the best time of year to move house.

Look forward to Maxmill Mk 2 next year.


Ed



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Thanks Ed.

We're only moving 10 miles so it won't be too arduous plus, we don't usually get the sort of weather down here that UK could expect in January.

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Petermac wrote: Thanks Ed.

We're only moving 10 miles so it won't be too arduous plus, we don't usually get the sort of weather down here that UK could expect in January.

Thank goodness for that, must still be cold though.


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New beginnings, eh Peter?

Good Luck with it all.  :cheers

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Huzzah!

Glad you have sold at last, it does wear you down, doesn't it? It took us a month short of three years, but have now removed from Basingstoke to Ivybridge, Devon, been in 4 weeks.

Best wishes to the lovely Liz, bon courage, mon ami!

Doug [Learnin' Janner]

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Good luck with the move Peter. Sweeten Liz with her favourite treats or is it a new kitchen! 

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MaxSouthOz wrote: New beginnings, eh Peter?

Good Luck with it all.  :cheers

Thanks Max - I think in fact, it's just the end of the last "beginning" .................. ;-)

We decided we'd had enough of running 2 houses, particularly as the letting house tied us up all summer.  I think by the time you're in your mid 70's, you can say you've done your bit for the tax man.

We'll be able to take things slightly easier and probably grab a summer holiday in Europe.  Up to now, for decent weather in winter, we've had to go head a long way south.

As soon as we're settled in, the new version of Maxmill will start to evolve.  Unlike the last one, an element of planning will feature in the next......................but I have learnt a lot over the last few years :hmm

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Chubber wrote: Huzzah!

Glad you have sold at last, it does wear you down, doesn't it? It took us a month short of three years, but have now removed from Basingstoke to Ivybridge, Devon, been in 4 weeks.

Best wishes to the lovely Liz, bon courage, mon ami!

Doug [Learnin' Janner]

Thanks Doug.

Probably as with you, after months of time wasters, the buyer came out of the blue like a whirlwind.

I hope Devon is living up to expectations for both of you - isn't that heading back to your youth, or was it Shelagh's ?

Liz is currently just out of hospital having had a back operation so is effectively "out of commission" for 3 months !!!  Talk about timing !!!  She is however, in good spirits and enjoys watching me do all the chores.  She cheerfully presents me with her "list" each evening ................... :roll: :roll:


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Super D wrote: Good luck with the move Peter. Sweeten Liz with her favourite treats or is it a new kitchen! 

Thanks Derek.

Given the option, I'd go with a bag of her favourite treats and to blazes with the kitchen.  Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be given that option.............. :cry:

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Good Morning Peter
Congratulations. We are so pleased for you both after what must have been a very frustrating time. We have been through that a few times. Apart from all the other stuff ripping up a layout on which one has spent so much time is particularly galling. So glad you have been able to save those iconic items like Doug's mill and the Tube station

I do hope it will not be too long before Maxmill II arises like a Phoenix from the ashes. I know that your new train room will enjoy a far better view than mine!

Doreen and I send our best wishes to Liz for a speedy convalescence

Kindest regards to you both


John



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Super D wrote: Good luck with the move Peter. Sweeten Liz with her favourite treats or is it a new kitchen! 

A new kitchen.  :roll:

That's why I'm not getting any modelling done.



I've got this far.  Still waiting for the doors and drawer fronts to come back from being epoxy painted.  Also, the splash back men came the other day, but they had made it the wrong size!  Back to the shop.  :twisted:

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Peter, with the move to improve your retirement,  :mutley

will your internet improve as well?

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Good to hear you and the bride will be taking life a little easier Peter, yet still enjoying a part of the world you enjoy. It's always sad though to see such a large established layout taken down, yet the next recreation will provide much fullfilment and a chance to do so many little things a bit differently! As Doug said so well, 'bon courage mon ami'.

Our busy letting season has finished and with winter preparation almost done, modelling can now occupy much more time as I trust your own plans for the new railway room takes shape.

Best,

Bill

 

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A bit late to the game but: On your ‘cutting the point link wires’ I use a old thin nail I have hanging around the toolbox! Not the most elligant method but works non the less!

Last edited on Mon Nov 6th, 2017 10:07 pm by TeaselBay

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 Hi Peter, That's the first posts in Maxmill Junction repaired. There were only 18 Images missing, 17 of which have been recovered.     Now about that Image in post 90 that is missing. . .  how much did you say the negative of you by the pool in nothing but a Pink Flamingo water Ring would be worth ?????     :mutley




Cheers
    Matt                                                                                                             ✔        Barchester            

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We finally moved on January 12th - we've tried to squeeze a fully furnished house with outbuildings, attic and basement into a fully furnished house with no outbuildings, attic or basement ..................and it shows !!!

At one time, those members of long standing will confirm that I used to be infamous for my collection of "screws".  I think it will now be "cardboard boxes" !!  We seem to have thousands and there's something we "need" in each one.  The problem is, we can't remember which !!

We can't do much in the way of "sorting" just yet either - we're having a new heating system installed starting on Monday next.

I have had an "off the cuff" guestimate for rebuilding the old ruined prune drying shed that I'd earmarked for "Maxmill Central".  At €30,000 to €35,000, I'm thinking we may not need any prunes afterall.......................................................

To add insult to injury, I've got the worst cold anyone anywhere in the world has ever had .........................

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At least you've made the move at last Peter.Hope you get better soon so you can start on all those jobs and Maxmill 2.

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Hi Peter
Hope you feel better soon. I am sure that you are both glad that, at least the move is now complete. I do sympathise with the " what's in that box" syndrome. We went through that when we downsized 11 years ago. I am still not convinced we have opened all the boxes yet!:roll:

Best wishes

John



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Sol wrote: Peter, with the move to improve your retirement,  :mutley

will your internet improve as well?

My retirement is, according to Liz, on hold for now Sol ......................but yes, the good news is, after lots of to-ing and fro-ing and telephone calls to Orange, we now have our Livebox connected and running.  Just tested the speed and we have 17.5 mega.  An improvement on our old 1.9 on a good day,  so I'm a happy bunny. :doublethumb

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Thanks for the "get well soon" wishes guys - I'm certain this cold of mine needs further expert examination.  It really is the worst cold known to man and my survival thus far is testament to my inner strength.  I've offered to assist Beechams, Vicks, Boots and all the other cold rememdy manufacturers and am just awaiting the financial scramble to secure exclusive access to my disease .......................

John, having been here, you'll understand what I mean about being surrounded by boxes - 2 furnished houses into one is difficult !! 

We are awaiting builders and plumbers so it will be some time yet before we can start to find homes for the content of those boxes, or even, a new home for Maxmill but we are both very pleased to be where we now are.

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There is development ......................................

Those of you who have been following my efforts to create a new train room, might recall that I have been having the devil's own job trying to find a suitable home in a partially ruined outbuilding we have here.

It has no roof and only 31/2 walls.  The walls are built from large, heavy sandstone blocks - they are 40cm thick, 40 cm high and longer than both their height and width.  Way too heavy to lift without mechanical help.

I had thought I'd got someone to put a roof on the thing and I'd concrete it and rebuild the ailing wall.  However, he let me down and took on other work !!  It happens in France - regularly !!!

The potential costs were looking horrendous, to say nothing of the effort involved but hey, nothing's too much for the LNER ........................

Then, out of the blue, this was advertised on a local sales site "Preowned in Aquitaine" :





A 6 metre x 2.3 metre portable office unit - complete with heating and air conditioning and just a mere 35 odd miles away from me.

Guess what was inside:











It's all controlled by one of these :



With 2 walk-about hand throttles:




After some discussion, we arrived at a price suitable to both of us.

It has to be craned out of his site and come over a wheat field at this end so I'm willing the sunshine on to ripen the crop and hopefully, harvest will allow it to arrive sometime in July.

It's not the type of layout I had planned but I'm sure I'll learn to love it.

A video follows when I find out how to upload one !!!


.


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:doublethumb
Brilliant......well done.......I am so pleased for you!

Just by chance we will be in SW France in early August! I will send you a PM later

Congratulations and best wishes

John

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Oh that looks exciting! I look forwards to seeing he videos!

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John Dew wrote:..............................................

Just by chance we will be in SW France in early August! I will send you a PM later

..................................................

I'll look forward to your PM John - sounds promising .......................... :hmm

Oh, and many thanks for the congratulations. :cheers

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Here's a video of the layout taken by the current owner.  I'm not buying any of the rolling stock but many of the buildings are included in the purchase.

OK, let's see if this works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFsQN8NZvbM&feature=youtu.be


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Worked perfectly! Not a bad size is it!!!

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That will keep you busy updating it Peter.

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Oh my!  What are the chances?  That is a fantastic space, to have a railway as well is just a super bonus!  And such potential - keep it and modernise, change it module by module, or have a play and then set about a total refit.  I am very envious, but also excited at what we will see you do.

You could create a gorgeous Southern run to the coast...…..

Warm regards

Michael

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I,m more than green with envy.
A fantastic find Peter.

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Scooooore!!

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What a result Peter,that looks a fantastic project to take on.I thought when I started reading the post that it was just a cabin to transfer Maxmill to.Looking forward to further developments/

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Well done Peter. :thumbs  My wife has a 7' x 5' shed if it is any good to you.  If you could crane it over to France, I'll make sure she is in it!


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Thats great news Peter, plenty to get your teeth into, adapting, improving the areas your not happy with  but also gets you up and running fast !
:thumbs

Cheers

Matt

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You Jammy git Peter.
Thats a great find and im sure you really chuffed.

Now with all that work already done there no excuse why you cant convert to full computer control now as you have gained loads of spare time .

Did he throw the rollling stock in with the sale Peter i noticed a blue pullman there.

Your Lenz will plug in and work fine on that


Brian

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Wow Peter, what a result and well done with such a fantastic find. I've missed all this news till now, as I've been mad busy with the gites and gardens these past two days, with more guests arriving this evening. 

Did you say it's air conditioned to boot? That certainly opens up summer modelling and running. It's 31deg in the shade here today, another 10 degrees for those mad enough to do stuff in direct sun for too long, so no playing trains in the Western Loire for a while now, although I'm not complaining.

I bet you'll be getting impatient for it to arrive soon. Have you any outline plans yet?

I'm so happy for you after the issues with your roofer. We're still waiting for ours.

Best,

Bill


Last edited on Sat Jun 1st, 2019 06:01 pm by Longchap

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And the winner Isssssss :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Oh! Happy days to come, I hope.

Very Best wishes,
Douglas

[P.s. I recognise the Bricomarche carpet runner, I've still got some in our caravan!

Last edited on Sun Jun 2nd, 2019 07:09 am by Chubber

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Many thanks for all your kind comments guys.  :cheers

There is certainly something to get my teeth into on there.  All the points are dead frog so that will have to change and there are only 2 motorised so yet more work there.

From memory - I've only seen it once and there was a lot to take in - I think most of the trackwork relies on fishplates for continuity.  The bus is copper tape - as recommended by ZTC - mounted on the facia and there didn't seem to be too many soldered connections ................

Once I've learnt my way around it, both physically and electrically, I'll be in a position to start the upgrades and/or modifications etc.

I'm busy laying some concrete foundations for it at present ....................................

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Those of you who have been following this thread will know I've been eagerly awaiting harvest before I could think about any moves with the "office" unit.

Well today, this apeared :



The 2 concrete slabs in the foreground are where the unit will sit and the rest is my view from the train room.  John Dew, who has been here, will probably work out exactly where it is on the property.

Fingers crossed, next week will see the concrete hidden.................  It's all in the hands of the crane man now.

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Hopefully and English craneman and not a French one Peter the French one may be waiting for next years harvest.

How many miles does the unit have to travel?


Brian

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Now thats a nice view to have from a train room  :thumbs  good that things are finally happening Peter, you will soon have a new Oasis to take yourself off to  :doublethumb
Cheers

Matt

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Hi Peter

What a great find, have fun getting to grips with it and I hope it fits your needs, it certainly is a good retirement project.

Jim

Last edited on Thu Jul 11th, 2019 03:04 pm by aberdare

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Briperran wrote: Hopefully and English craneman and not a French one Peter the French one may be waiting for next years harvest.

How many miles does the unit have to travel?


Brian

Alas no Brian, he's French.  I've got everything crossed that he'll come good.

At the pick up end, it has to be craned over a building then travel around 45 miles to me.  Because we have a low roof walkway between the house and garage, the only access is across that stubble field - our property starts where the grass starts.  He'll park somewhere near that ping pong table (which ill be moved !) then the HIAB on the truck will just pop it onto the concrete "sleepers".  It's a skid mounted unit rather than jack points so I only needed the 2 slabs - around 8" to 12" of steel reinforced concrete so should carry it easily enough.

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You have absolutely no faith Mr Webb ..................................... :It's a no no

Unit being loaded up this afternoon and delivered here Monday - "au plus tard" - at the latest !!

Result :doublethumb :doublethumb :doublethumb

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A great find Peter, I think a good vacuuming of the track etc to give it an initial clean up for a start and then modify to your own taste, it could turn out to be a "great" layout!

Plenty of light there too for photographs.

Good luck with the move!

Last edited on Fri Jul 12th, 2019 02:44 am by Phil.c

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No piddling little Tonka Toy for Petermac - this is what I call a crane !!!

Weighs in at 42 tonnes, lifts up to 50 tonnes and has a 50 metre long boom when fully extended........................



A short video (very short) of the lift will appear when I have time to cobble it together ..................and more importantly, to upload it !!

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Hell Peter a Frenchman doing a job within a few days his wine cellar must be nearly empty.


that crane will have no trouble whatsoever with your layout room. Your pads are absolutely fine to support it. It better to have airflow underneath it to deter rot occurring.

I assuming you have already checked there is room for a wine fridge under the baseboards.



Brian

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That is certainly a crane and a half!  Looking forward to seeing what you do with layout....

Michael

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As long as it doesn't happen like this !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibckwjckBjI

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To lose one crane may be regarded as misfortune, to lose two looks like carelessness!

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A beautiful setting for a trainroom Peter.I am truly envious, I look forward to seeing what you do with it.

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Thanks for sall the good wishes guys.

I'm quite excited now - it arrives at 7am on Monday - an early start immediately after a late night celebrating Bastille Day tomorrow !!!

Liz is slightly less excited - she sees her "list" slipping into second place - and it's still 4 pages long !!!  If she has her way, I'll be losing some weight because she's demanding a meal per job ticked off...............................

If the "job" was changing a light bulb, no problem but it's things like "decorate spare bedroom", "re-stone drive" and other 10 minute jobs ...............

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They just don't seem to realise Peter what is more important.....I can't understand it :)

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If I were you Peter, I'd put my foot down.  If you were me, however, you would do as my wife tells me!

Michael

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Headmaster wrote: If I were you Peter, I'd put my foot down.  If you were me, however, you would do as my wife tells me!

Michael

I think it's the same the world over Michael.  I can see Liz will be writing a timetable for the train room.

0800 to 2000 : Jobs for Liz

2000 to 2030 :  Supper

2030 to 2300 :  Conversations (or browsing fashion pages on Google etc. etc.) with Liz

2300 to whenever - Play trains ..................if I dare !!!


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The Eagle has landed:







7.15 this morning - absolutely as promised - he trundled across the wheat stubble and in under an hour, he was on his way again.

Maybe as one would expect, there was some transport damage to the layout, mainly caused by the backscenes on one side coming adrift and bouncing around on the platforms.  Result - some broken coloured light and semaphore signals and a couple of tall yard lights snapped off.  Nothing too serious, it just means I've a little more work to do before I can see if trains will run.

The next problem is finding what I need immediately amongst the piles of stored "railway boxes" scattered around the house and garage !!!

I nearly forgot - my first job was to run an extension cable to the unit and try out the mains electrics.  The air-con is fantastic !!!

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Pleased for you Peter you now have a man cave.

Ignore the list Liz has spend some time doing things for yourself you have waited a long time for this so you deserve a great deal of man cave time.


Brian

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Great news Peter and super performance from our trusty French brethren.

Now the fun starts and as you say, finding some stock and equipment will be just the first of many happy occurrences.

Let me know if you're short of stock and I'll see if I can divert some panniers down to assist!

Very best,

Bill

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:Happy   :cheers

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Longchap wrote: Great news Peter and super performance from our trusty French brethren.

Now the fun starts and as you say, finding some stock and equipment will be just the first of many happy occurrences.

Let me know if you're short of stock and I'll see if I can divert some panniers down to assist!

Very best,

Bill

Believe it or not Bill, I did a trial run using my Pannier this afternoon.  It has a huge stay-alive fitted and, with all the points being insulfrog, I wanted something that wasn't going to stall everywhere.

In the event, I need not have bothered - there's a short somewhere !!  I've probably connected the wrong plug to the controller - there are several "track feed plugs" ..................!!!!

I did however, discover that the turntable works perfectly - Fleischmann DCC I think .............

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Briperran wrote: Pleased for you Peter you now have a man cave.

Ignore the list Liz has spend some time doing things for yourself you have waited a long time for this so you deserve a great deal of man cave time.


Brian

Liz has just crossed you off our Christmas Card list Brian - no idea why ................. :mutley :mutley :cheers

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You have a pannier, how cool is that! I have to admit that my last loco purchase was a Bachmann Fowler 1F open cab in LMS black. I've been admiring this loco for some time so when a new example turned up at a bargain price in Ace Models on my last UK trip, resistance was futile!

Hopefully a good shakedown of the electrics will see everything else working better as well as the TT.

Looking forward to progress and your future plans as they develop.

Bill

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Peter if you have your Lenz 100 wired up to it there may be a way of discovering where the short is.

I had the lenz 100 system and i often used this little trick to find shorts with that system.

It must be very quiet am i hope you have good hearing.

Press the reset button and listen very carefully often where the short is gives off a faint buzz this can save many hours of hunting.


Brian

Last edited on Mon Jul 15th, 2019 03:39 pm by Briperran

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Thanks Brian - I note your method demands good hearing.  I spent half my life listening to the gentle purr of tractor engines, the soothing sound of pigs squealing or cows mooing and the high pitched whine of cereal milling whilst the other half was spent in the pyrotechnics industry and you ask if I have good hearing !!!  :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

In fact, I'm not actually sure it's a short.  I think it's more to do with what I've connected to what on the controller.

I'm trying his ZTC system as that's what was installed.  There are several plugs, the main controller, 2 hand held controllers,  2 boosters and a couple of transformers.  I suspect I've connected the wrong plug to the wrong bit - I'm trying it without the boosters initially.  Obviously it worked before asll the hardware was disconnected so presumably, it's just a question of connecting it as it was before.  Unfortunately, I didn't disconnect it and he didn't make any notes ..............................


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Hi Peter
Congratulations..........I am so glad everything went relatively smoothly.

Sorry I havent been in contact sooner......this holiday making is very tiring! Plus the pubs have been delightful but wifi speed could hardly be described as fast.

Today is Tuesday so we must be in Hoylake.....later today we head off to Rochdale to stay three nights with Doreen’s sister.......its quite near the Acadia Model Shop so if you need anything urgently now is your chance......just let me know and I will bring it with me along with the much travelled slips and tortoises.

Good luck with the power fault finding

See you both soon......I do hope Liz hasnt prepared a list for me!

Best wishes

John

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No John, its Peter who has transferred most of HIS list to your list,  how long are you visiting for ?  :mutley

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Hurry up and get there John

While you are there Liz wont be able to administer the order of the frying pan on Peters head.

He can spend loads of time in the man cave.

Brian

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I'm enjoying all this!!

D

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Briperran wrote: Hurry up and get there John

While you are there Liz wont be able to administer the order of the frying pan on Peters head.

He can spend loads of time in the man cave.

Brian

:mutley :mutley

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John Dew wrote: Hi Peter
Congratulations..........I am so glad everything went relatively smoothly.

................................................................................................................................

Good luck with the power fault finding

......................................I do hope Liz hasnt prepared a list for me!


Many thanks John.

In spite of my excitement, I've hardly looked at the unit since it arrived !!  "Other pressures" have taken a severe toll on my spare time although, surprisingly, on this occasion, it hasn't been "Liz's List".

Regarding your list John, I'm using your visit as my get-out clause so you don't need to worry - at least, I don't think you need to ...............................

On closer inspection, it would seem the transit damage could be slightly more than at first glance but still not terminal.

My first, and most urgent task, is to fit some temporary screening to the outside of the windows - Meteo France are warning us to expect 41C here on Tuesday/Wednesday of next week !!!

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I know track rubbers are not recommended but given the state of some of the track in my new “shed”, I think I’m going to have to resort to one initially.
 
There has been some “Rubber Press” on what is good and what is bad so which type do you use and why ?
 

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Hi Peter
I use Peco........I have had them for over ten years.....they seem to come in two varieties hard and soft although I dont recall having a choice when I ordered them.......the hard are super hard and I use them very rarely.

Rubbing alcohol ( or similar) is also useful.

I have found the best way to maintain clean track is regular running.

No plastic wheels or traction tyres.

Have you got the wiring issue sorted?

Regards

John

In Passeau on the Danube where it is very hot!

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One Peco and one Hornby Peter, but I do try not to use them.

Think the Peco one is better and doesn't scratch the track so much, but it could be my imagination.

Depending on what the original owner used to clean the track, it may not be worth worrying about.

Don't suppose there is anyway you could get your CMX round.


Ed

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Wow - thanks for the express replies John and Ed .... :thumbs

Peco seems it may be the favourite although I have read an argument from DCC Concepts that they are too harsh.

It could be sales talk from DCC C but they claim their aluminium oxide is a kinder abrasive .......................

I have run the CMX round a few times Ed - pushed it by hand actually because the heavy loco I pull it with is buried in an inaccessible box somewhere (synonym for "I can't find it" !!!)

Liz and I drove back from our house in North Cyprus way back in the late 80's or early 90's John.  We spent a wonderful night in a very smart hotel in Passau having stayed in a few dubious establishments in Turkey and Hungary en route.  Liz said she didn't care what it cost - she just need some luxury and pampering !!

It's hot here too - forecast says up to 43C today but to be honest, I don't think it will make it.

I can report some electrical success in that I have power to most of the layout although I think the dead frog points have created some "sections".  I have also been in touch with the previous owner and ascertained how he had connected the 2nd booster.  I'm about to try that out when hopefully, I'll have full control.

I'm loving the air-con - it makes fault finding such a pleasure ............... :mutley :mutley :mutley

Enjoy the rest of your cruise John - I am slighlty envious ...........................

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I use a Roco track rubber, IMO far better than Peco after painting and ballasting . Then a smear of Wahl Oil ( no good for traction tyres though), lasts for about 12 months followed by a good rub down then a dose of oil again. On the D&S, it gets run for at least 5 hours a month over two operating sessions.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/27013.aspx

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Thanks Sol.

I wonder what Roco use as their abrasive .............. :hmm  Are their rubbers physically bigger than Peco ?  From experience, Peco tend to groove very quickly making them difficult to handle.

Wahl oil ???  Is that the stuff they use for sheep clippers ?  I wonder what the European equivalent would be..................  Also, I think it was Max who had a funny turn when you mentioned it ................ :lol: :lol:

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Just been online looking for Wahl oil and yes, it is available throughout Europe.

Being designed for hair clippers, I wouldn't really know too much about it - my need is more for a polish !! :lol:

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All track rubbers are abrasive and leave scratches for dirt and muck to gather. They also reduce traction (by around 15%). For most it doesn't matter, those with inclines or gradients with curves might be affected. 

All track I have examined at x100 magnification has longitudinal scratches from the extrusion process. Track rubbers are equivalent to around #350-#400 paper.

800 w/d followed by 1000 and then 2000 w/d. Clean every once in a while afterwards with IPA, meths or white spirit. Use a track rubber or 400 w/d to start with if really bad.

Nigel

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Singer sewing machine oil does the job of Wahl oil, never seems to go sticky, have used it on clock mechanisms. Dense enough not to fly off worm gear drives, too.

D

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Thanks Doug.

Have you used it as a track treatment - I'm wondering if it's particularly conductive.  Fortunately, I don't have any traction tyred locos so ruining the rubber isn't a factor.

Amazon France sell Wahl oil but there is a local Singer agent who probably stocks their oil.

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I have used it on Peco point mechanisms and on OO9 track which I subsequently used without problems...If you do get some it won't be wasted, I'm sure.

Doug

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Yesterday Liz and I had the pleasure of entertaining John and Doreen Dew - the last time we met was in 2013.

Mr & Mrs Dew are nearing the end of their European tour and we were honoured that they made the 6 hour round trip to visit us from their current location near Toulouse.

As you'll know, I'm a massive fan of John's Granby layout so, to have it's creator here casting his well trained eye over my new acquisition was something of a moment for me !!!

Here we are discussing what plans Beeching 2 may have for the development of the yet-to-be-named layout:




I think the engine shed area just managed to get away with it ...................




This area will definitely be redeveloped - a fiddle yard replacing much of the foreground with a second "scenic" level above being a very real possibility:



Hopefully, Doug's mill will sit in the right front corner (out of shot), the Bradford Wheregate station building will become the high level entrance to the main station just beyond my left elbow, the Maxmill Engineering module will be on the new high level on the left, but Chocolate Pudding Lane tube module is proving more difficult to incorporate due to the radius of the "wings".............................

As I said, I have yet to name the layout - Maxmill II doesn't flow somehow - Liz wants "Kings Cross" - she says I think I'm King and I'm always cross !!!

Watch this space and thanks a million for your invaluable input John, to say nothing of giving me a day of your holiday.

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Hi Peter,

As another great fan of Granby, I'm so very happy that you and John and the respective brides, managed to get together for a long overdue tete a tete. No doubt you shared some of your more secret layout ideas with John and a plan is afoot to enjoy when the cooler months return.

Continued good fortune with the layout (and no, I'm not just a little jealous with the clime) and have great fun.

Best,

Bill

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Great to see a few shots of the internals of your new aquisition. There looks loads of scope for tailoring it to you requirements. John has helped me at various points as I am building my layout so it is great you managed to get together - pity he wasn't heading further south on this trip. Subject to other commitments it'll be time to get your sleeves rolled up soon and get cracking. I would offer to come and give you a hand but will only be passing by on my way to England in early September and on my way back later in the month.

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Good to see you guys getting out the blueprints for the new construction, I thing you're in good hands there Peter with John, he's done a bit before you know :)

I look forward to future developements!

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You guys are flattering me again. I gained so much knowledge from YMR when I first started....its very gratifying to know that I have been able to return a little.
It was great to see Peter and Liz again after all these years. I enjoyed discussing how we could modify the layout to accommodate both Peters operational requirements and the his remarkable collection of buildings into an existing layout.

Its undoubtedly more challenging than working from a clean sheet. The previous owner had covered almost every square inch of baseboard with track, stations and loco sheds/coaling bays etc. Peter’s approach of relaying part of the left hand side and relocating at least one station to the upper level will enable trains to run on more realistic journeys and provide a 6 road storage yard.

It was all great fun....I just wish we had more time then we could have found a home for the tube module and I might, perhaps, have finally persuaded Peter to relocate the turntable:lol:

Best wishes to all from a very warm Cahuzac sur Vere.

 John

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John - for "flattery", read "envy" .....................oh and yes, you are of course right about the turntable being in the wrong place but, as you saw, there are very few other options without rebuilding the bits I actually want to keep ............

My initial efforts have been spent trying to get trains to run - filthy track, several eras of wiring, all still in place although naturally, not connected (except to the track and underside of the baseboards, a broken solder joint (spotted by John of course  :oops:), and an as yet, unresolved short when trying the Lenz controller.  Whatsit's law says it runs fine with the ZTC !!

The first replanning hurdle will be to gain sufficient height on the branch line to clear the main line in the space available whilst keeping to a sensible grade.  After that initial climb, I need to continue the gradient to achieve around 6" clearance over the fiddle/storage yards, but I think I have plenty of length for that.

My technical drawing is about as good as my painting but I'll try to prepare a plan so you can see what I hope to achieve.




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My God - what fantastic legs!! :lol: :lol:

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Glad the move was a success Peter, plenty to get your teeth into !
Cross ?  You ??  I dont believe a word of it  :mutley

So the name is easy, instead of Maxmill II  How about Kingsmill Junction  and somewhere on the Junction you can have a level crossing,  So KINGsmill CROSSing   :thumbs

Cheers

Matt


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Looking forwards to seeing how you get on with your as yet unnamed layout! :-)

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Hi Petermac.   I have just found this thread.. is this an old one ? or have you been keeping it under wraps? And I do hope that I haven’t put my size 11’s in it. Best wishes Kevin 

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Not keeping it under wraps at all Kevin.  It's been dormant since we moved 18 months ago and is now stirring into life again - albeit a different life .........................

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Hi Petermac Thank you for your reply. I suppose it is a matter of priorities , but it will be great today see it in action one day.Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Tue Aug 27th, 2019 06:28 pm by Passed Driver

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An update on the situation with my "Railway Cabin".

Because of "summer guests", I haven't spent much time in my hutch since it arrived.  Most of what time I have had has been spent cleaning filthy track, trying (as yet, unsuccessfully) to get locomotives to run everywhere and learning what goes where whilst trying to decide what to do with it all - basically, "road testing" I suppose.

The results of all this testing has highlighted several problem areas.

No 1.  The builder has, for me, committed the cardinal sin of taking a board, or several boards, and filling them with trackwork.  The result is there is no "countryside" anywhere and therefore, no "raison d'etre" for the railway.  Individually, each area has it's merits and could make some interesting dioramas but, put it all together and it becomes over crowded and rather pointless as a layout.  That is the reason I discussed some major alterations with John Dew when he visited.

No 2.  There would appear to be several bits of steel track scattered around.  That can rust, and, in places, has done so.  Any steel track will have to be replaced.

No 3.  There is one particular point which constantly shorts out when set for the turnout.  It's in a fairly critical position but, as I plan to replace most, if not all the dead frog points with live frog, the problem will hopefully go away.

No 4.  One crossover (on the mainline) is not flat and locos often lose electrical contact on one or other of the points forming the crossover - even when keeping to the "road".  Again, as the points will be changed, this problem should disappear.

No 5.   I suspect as a result of bouncing about on the back of a lorry during transit, there is a significant "hump" in one section - enough to occasionally uncouple a Kadee coupling and, even if everything stays coupled, trains look as if they're riding a big-dipper.  That part of the baseboard will have to be sorted out.

No 6.  Some of the 4 corners of the roundy-roundy double track are over tight.  I doubt an 8 coupled loco would get around one corner - I couldn't get a 2-6-4 Fairburn to go around without derailing the pony truck.  Some extra weight on the truck might have helped but I'd rather they all went round without "outside interference".

All in all, there is some fairly major work to do before I'd be happy with the way it operates as is.  As it happens, we (John and I) had already decided that half the existing layout would be re-built - fortunately, the half with the dodgy baseboard joint.

I did try to draw a schematic diagram of the existing half but I'm so bad at computer drawing that it looked rather like a nest of spiders in a food processor so I have a series of photos showing the over crowded half which will be redeveloped.



This first shot is the south-east corner of my "hutch".  The small loco yard and coaling facility on the right will be retained.  Lower left leads off to the maze of tracks.




The aforementioned loco yard and coaling facility is bottom centre.  You'll be able to follow the various tracks leading towards top left.  If you remember this unit is only 20ft long, you can see there is a station every few feet !!!



Moving slightly further down - the shed centre right is the same one as in the centre of the previous shot.  Here you can see the complex trackwork, much of which seems there simply to cover a vacant bit of baseboard.  There is barely room for two points between the halt and top station although the main lines do bypass the terminus top left.  The joint between the grey and brown boards, at the stub end of the platform, is where the "hump" is.  A keen eye will see where the trackwork is proud of the ballast.




The north-east corner of the "hutch" and the terminus station.  The halt in the previous photo is just out of shot bottom right !   The too tight roundy-roundy curves are extreme top centre going round the far end of the station and over the lift-up across the doorway.


With the exception of the loco yard and coaling facility, the whole of this side of the "hutch", i.e. most of what you see on these 4 photos, will be stripped out and turned into a "storage yard" - 6 long roads, 3 up and 3 down, with mid point cross-overs so any "half length" trains can access the main through route from any on the storage roads.

The unit is 2.3 metres wide so the curve at the end will, if at all possible, be relaid to give a steady 36" radius curve.  The other (southern) end curve doesn't seem too bad.

Phase 2, still in the planning stages, will create a second level, ideally 6" above this board (to allow manual access if/when necessary) which will be my "countryside" served by a branchline.

The old Maxmill was almost twice the size of this unit therefore, with some regret, I will have to forget dreaming of solving the problems of the world over a cup of coffee whilst watching my long East Coast mainline express trains zipping by.  It's down to earth with a bump I'm afraid although looking at posts of more compact layouts I'm amazed at just what can be achieved - and probably in a much more realistic timescale !!!

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Hi Peter

Not much to do then.......you should have trains running by Christmas!  :mutley :pedal



"Phase 2, still in the planning stages, will create a second level, ideally 6" above this board (to allow manual access if/when necessary) which will be my "countryside" served by a branchline."


This reminded me that I promised to check the incline on Granby for you. The vertical rise from the lower level branch line to the main is 3 1/4". The track is predominantly straight with a 48" +- radius curve at each end. Total length is 115". This gives a ratio of 35:1. The generally accepted minimum for an entirely straight incline is 40:1.........so I am pushing the limits a bit......and I must admit the incline can look a bit unrealistic.

From a branch perspective though it works.....a two carriage train hauled by a pannier (naturally :lol:) copes perfectly well at at a scale 25 mph. From time to time a couple of tankers are added as tail traffic....again no problem.

The 22 wagon coal train hauled by a 56xx 0-6-2T struggles but that isnt an issue because one of my RR&Co party pieces is the addition of a banker and as in the prototype that little shove from the rear makes all the difference!

Back to Maxmill........based on my data, to achieve 6" clearance you will need a predominantly straight incline somewhere between 17 and 20 feet long. This may not be possible but there all manner of work arounds to achieve the aim of a lower level storage yard/main line and a scenic upper level branch. However, because of all the compromises that will have to be made, the two levels are inextricably linked........ (well that was the plan anyway! :lol:)

It makes sense to split the project into phases but I think that you should have a very clear design for the upper level before starting work on the lower level.

I will try and post a photo of the fearsome Cynwyd bank later

Cheers

John 



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Thanks John - that really is some incline !!

You'll probably remember where my incline was going to start - near the south east corner just past the coaling shed ramp.

I reckon I have around 12 or 13ft before I hit the north-east corner curve, at which point, it will level out to negotiate the doorway end.  I then planned to continue to climb the full length of the opposite (west) wall - in fact, subtracting space for the end curves, probably around 16ft.

Originally, I had concerns about lifting the grade high enough in that first 13ft to clear the underlying main line but, as I mentioned in my update, I think the mains will be further away from the outside once a 3ft radius is employed across the ends of the unit so they shouldn't be in the same place.

That gives me a straight climb of 12ft plus 16ft - 28ft, maybe more, plus a level bit inbetween.  This would allow a gradient of a fraction less than 1 in 55.  I had hoped for 1 in 60 or less but the only way I could do that would be to continue climbing round the curves and across the ends.  I've always understood that grades on curves are death !!

As you say, for a branch line, I wouldn't be using 10 coach trains.  In fact, as you know, I do have a pannier so I'm saved .................. :lol: :lol:

Additionally, I may get away with slightly less than 6" between the 2 levels. I just need to decide on how I mount any under-board electrics on the top level - point motors, occupancy detectors (if I decide to fit them in preparation for..............) etc.

I also have a cunning plan in that a large section of the upper level will be a removable scenic panel thus allowing easy access to the roads below should the need arise - much as your row of houses hides your storage roads.........................  The railway bit would be closer to the wall.


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Hi Petermac.    The builder? Is that not you?  I remember the steel rails and the new idea c/o Hornby of magnadhesion , I do not know if that is the correct spelling. But it was very handy for such gradients, and if one could purchase such a Loco today.    Best wishes Kevin 

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Kevin,  Magnahesion - now called Powerbase     https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/advertisement-powerbase-2013/

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That sounds very promising Peter :thumbsI should have known that you would have everything under control :oops: :oops:.

Occupancy detectors should not present a clearance issue. When you install them you basically insert the decoder between the DCC bus and the dropper feed to the track. They can be placed in an accessible location rather than immediately under the upper level track.

Point motors are another matter........its not just clearance its also accessibility. As Granby matures (ie gets old and decrepit like its owner) I seem to spend a lot of time replacing duff Peco motors and or polarity switches. Tortoises are ultra reliable but then of course you will have a clearance problem. Fortunately with the upper level being a sleepy branch there shouldnt be too many turnouts. If you cant get clear accessibilty I would be inclined to go for surface mounting. Conventional peco motors with switches can be concealed under lineside buildings.........even Tortoises can be surface mounted and concealed......there is one on the shed at Granby.

Concealing sections of the storage yard with an upper level scenic lift off is a great idea and will enable you to achieve that countryside look you are seeking. As you know I have them on both sides of the layout at Granby........when I am just running trains into and out of the storage sidings there is rarely an issue. The problems arise when I am coupling or uncoupling in the storage sidings. Whether automatically or manually it is an operation that needs visual supervision.......there is nothing more mortifying than a loco leaving its carriages behind and departing on a schedule on its own or perhaps worse a "light engine" departing for the shed still hauling its coaches! You may recall I had to remodel one of the screens because of this and in the case of the low level storage sidings I abandoned loco exchanges some years ago. In summary if the sidings are to be used for storage and not fiddling it will work perfectly :thumbs

Best wishes

John
   

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Hi Ron.  Thank you for your reply. When I tried that idea, it was very useful for my small layout of the time.Best wishes Kevin 

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Hi Ron. Yet another reply. I had considered using Powerbase. If only for the sake of my DC Pugs, but it would mean ripping up the track and starting again, I have gone through enough layout changes and new track, I now have three Planks, and with the results that I have seen online with DCC and small Locos especially the Pugs and Terriers which I have in abundance , I think that DCC is a better way to proceed. I considered doing it myself and got nowhere. Best wishes Kevin 

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Passed Driver wrote: Hi Petermac.    The builder? Is that not you? ......................................................................

Sorry Kevin - I missed this question..................

The answer is no, I'm not the builder, at least, not of this latest layout.

I built the previous "Maxmill Junction" layout in the attic of our previous home.  When we sold, it was dismantled and is currently "in store" in boxes.

I bought this "portacabin" complete with layout, locally.  I am now in the planning stages of a big re-design process.

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Hi Petermac  . Thank you for your reply. That does sound like a stroke of luck. As long as it fits into the grand scheme of things.  Best wishes Kevin 

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I am having second thoughts about my plans for the "hutch" .....................

I really enjoyed developing Maxmill Junction and had a vision for the future.  Then, as so often happens, everything came to an abrupt halt when we sold the house.

I now find myself with a new "train shed", in many ways, far better than an attic and yet, I still yearn for the old Maxmill Junction - why ?  I'm pretty sure it's because I had space.  The old attic had almost twice the useable space of my "hutch" - nearly 2 metres wider and 4 metres longer.  I'm struggling to visualise a smaller version of Maxmill.

I think that's the key - I can't visualise a smaller version of Maxmill.  Maxmill was what it was because it had the space.  I no longer have that space.

My idea of a second level for the "countryside" served by a branchline simply isn't going to work.  "Countryside" suggests open space, indeed, it demands it otherwise it becomes a toy train set.

So, let's forget what I had and look around at what impresses me elsewhere.

There was an excellent countryside layout on the circuit several years ago - "Chiltern Green" I think it was called.  I think that fired my enthusiasm for "countryside" at the time.  After that, I'm a "dark satanic mills" lover.  I'm inspired by the likes of Tetley Mills, John's Granby and Mojo's Wakefield Wheregate - the grimey industrial layouts - every one a masterpiece in observation and scenic perfection.  The real thing in miniature.  I know, because I remember it all so well.

Such layouts thrive on tight spaces with interesting little nooks and crannies down in dark, damp corners where swinging a cat is a luxury. Tall oppressive Victorian buildings blocking out any chance of sunlight ever reaching the stone setts on the narrow alleys and roadways several stories below.  Quite unlike the colourful but ugly glass and steel monsters of today.  About as far from "countryside" as one can get.

Mr Lowry - here we come - I'm on fire !!!!


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I knew not that the road to Damascus was so close! Hearty congratulations on finding the light Peter, so stoke the furnace with Monsiuer Lowry at your side and do what pleases you!

Does one assume plenty of dark satanic mills will be in evidence? Maxmills might seem an appropriate working title then!

Bon courage and well done.

Bill

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Hi Petermac. So is it going to be “ Matchstalk men and Matchstalk cats and dogs ? Or dark satanic mills? I had been thinking about the backscene and tromp l’oeil effect l or 3D but I am no artist . Good luck with whichever plan you choose . Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Thu Aug 29th, 2019 05:07 am by Passed Driver

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Peter
Some years ago Iain Rice produced a Wild Swan publication on Urban Modelling.  Although he is a small layout builder some of his ideas were quite large. 

I think the book contains a number of good layouts but more importantly, a host of inspirational ideas for the urban and beautiful. If you can get hold of a copy it would be a good investment

Barry

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I have a copy of that very book Barry - kindly given to me by John Dew (who appears to be my guide and mentor .......whether he likes it or not  :roll:). 

It's a masterpiece and will certainly serve as an excellent reference work.

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Petermac wrote: I have a copy of that very book Barry - kindly given to me by John Dew (who appears to be my guide and mentor .......whether he likes it or not  :roll:). 

It's a masterpiece and will certainly serve as an excellent reference work.

More like an over enthusiastic supporter perhaps?:lol:

The book was sent when you were thinking of a plank but there are all manner of ideas you can apply to a larger canvas

I think you have made the right call, particularly if you are still retaining large sections of the old layout...too me it looked pretty industrial.

If you still yearn for the countryside there is always the outdoor extension option we briefly discussed. You certainly have both the space and a perfect backdrop


 :pedal

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John Dew wrote: ...................................................................

If you still yearn for the countryside there is always the outdoor extension option we briefly discussed. You certainly have both the space and a perfect backdrop


 :pedal

Get thee behind me Satan ...................... :Red Card :mutley :mutley :mutley

I must say John, I could have some spectacular trestle bridges - maybe I should think US outline for an outdoor extension .......................................... :hmm

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:mutley :mutley

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A link 'tween hutch and house perhaps?

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Iain Rice also did the companion book - "Mainlines in Modest Spaces" which I have and as usual with Rices' work - very good IMHO.

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Longchap wrote: I knew not that the road to Damascus was so close! Hearty congratulations on finding the light Peter, so stoke the furnace with Monsiuer Lowry at your side and do what pleases you!

Does one assume plenty of dark satanic mills will be in evidence? Maxmills might seem an appropriate working title then!

Bon courage and well done.

Bill

Dropping the  "Junction" from the old layout name might be the perfect answer Bill.  Matt (Barchester) had suggested something along the lines of Kingsmill Crossing - pop back a few posts to see where that came from - but I think a simple "Maxmills" may be more apt.

Dark satanic mills ?  You bet - big ones and lots of them !!  Lancashire had it's cotton mills and Yorkshire, it's woolen mills - another "Wars of the Roses" but, even though I'm a demi Yorkshireman, and with the exception of the magnificent Salt's Mill in Saltaire, I always thought the cotton mills more impressive.  That's the image I hope to create .....................  More a road to Hades than Damascus .......... :mutley

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John Dew wrote:.........................................................................
If you still yearn for the countryside ...........................................................................

Having looked again at Tetley's Mills, I note that it is much smaller than the videos would suggest and one side of the layout depicts the open Pennines above Huddersfield or similar Yorkshire town.  That could be my "countryside" ...................... :hmm

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I've been trying to spend time in my train shed but I keep getting hauled off to do "other jobs" which, I am assured, need to be done before winter ........................easy, quick jobs like "repoint the pool surround" !!

The trouble is, I know Liz is right - I just don't want to do it !!!!

I have been playing around with the lift-up in the doorway to see if I can get an easier curve without too much rebuilding. Currently, there is a sort of "flat topped" curve across the doorway which has created 2 very sharp corners - certainly less than a 24" radius on the right hand side and not too far off that on the left hand side.  I'm aiming for a steady 3ft radius curve.

These are the 2 tight corners - left: 



And right:




This is what I'm aiming for - the proposed curve is seen in pencil if you look carefully ............ The track shown is the inner main line.  Still to be added is the outer main plus, further out, the gradient rising to the upper level.  Track centers on the main 55mm apart followed by a decent gap between the outer main and single line gradient which will allow for some scenic work to blend it all together - possibly a canal or similar with the outer gradient up on a curved viaduct :  :




An easy (3ft radius) curve off to the left requiring some slight re-alignment of the main lines :




And similarly to the right - the old terminus station and corner coal mine have been removed.  The main lines will lead into the new fiddle yard - probably using a fan of curved points:




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Much better Peter and a lot more realistic especially when coaches go around!

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Yes indeed Phil - much better all round.  Some longer wheelbase locos were struggling on that right hand curve.

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Totally agree........so much better :thumbs .

I guess you now have more space for fixed (or rarely moved) scenery on the upper level without fouling the fiddle yard below?

Have you decided how the upper level will cross the doorway? 

Hope the re-pointing doesnt take too long :lol:

Best wishes

John

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Sorry John - I didn't answer your question about how I was going to get the upper level across the doorway.

Having found the requisite photos, I can now give you my answer.

Whilst I do have the odd original thought from time to time, I'm a true master at plagiarism so I plan to "borrow" some ideas from a couple of layouts that really inspire me.

My idea is to have a dropped lift-up section to incorporate a canal.  A low level bridge will carry the lower level mains whilst the upper level will be on a lift-out curved viaduct.

The late Dave Shakespeare had a masterpiece on his Tetley Mills:




An another master modeller who constantly inspires, John Dew, cemented the idea with his Granby III canal.  On mine, the bridges will be reversed with the tall viaduct in the background and probably a plate girder bridge at the lower level. 



I can't ask poor Dave if he minds but I hope you don't mind my using your ideas John........................it isn't the first time and it almost certainly won't be the last !!  :cheers

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Brilliant.......obviously I approve:thumbs
The photo of building the canal at Granby sure takes me back!

Cheers

John

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Maxmill had the pleasure of a fleeting visit from Bill (Longchap) and his wife today although rather stupidly, I didn't take any photographs to record the event.

He did however, see a much depleted and rather forlorn looking layout of which the whole Beeching family would have been proud.

Most of the left hand side of the layout has now been stripped out in preparation for a rebuild.  It has revealed that much of the trackwork turns out to be Code 75 with Code 100 slipced in here and there for no apparent reason.

The problem is that most of the electrofrog points lifted from Maxmill I are Code 100 !!!

Additionally, some parts of the baseboard will either have to be strengthened and refixed or replaced on that side.  Not only is there that annoying "hump" to correct, one central board seems to have quite a pronounced sag.  Fortunately, I did retain a heap of baseboards from Maxmill I so, other than the extra effort involved, it's no real problem.

With John and Bill having visited, that now makes 3 members who know roughly what I'm talking about in my ramblings ..................

Great to meet up with you and Letsie Bill - hope you have a safe journey home. :cheers

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Hi Peter,

Safely home a couple of hours ago from our holiday thanks and just had a light lunch in the local resto where we'll return later with our house / cat / clients' sitting friends before they depart back to Normandy tomorrow, to look after their own house and cats.

A huge thank you Peter and Liz both, for such a warm and rewarding visit, not to mention an unexpected lunch. You have a beautiful home to enjoy life from and Prudence is a most friendly meeter and greeter.

For all Maxmill followers, Peter's mobile self contained layout has provided a wonderfully interesting conversion project to entertain both himself and us all. Despite some challengers, it's all doable and Peter is eager and more than able to overcome a few challenges and the result will be a joy.

The high level branch and hidden storage roads is an elegant solution in providing more prototypical working and I was so impressed to not only see, but also hear a GWR pannier on the layout. Just some green paint needed!

Seeing the commencement of the work Peter, is giving me the itch to start clearing out my railway room location and I'll report sooner rather than later, now our Brexit fuelled holiday cottage season is almost over and I have some time to get to progress the project.

Looking forward to further progress Peter and in seeing you and Liz again.

Very best,

Bill

Last edited on Thu Sep 12th, 2019 05:28 pm by Longchap

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Thanks for your kind words Bill - perhaps I ought to add that Prudence is a dog - for those who had other ideas of what our "meeter and greeter" might be ........................... :hmm

I managed to spend a few hours with Maxmill today - Liz was out to lunch so the mice could play .................

First job was to remove the old lift-up in preparation for a new one: 




Then, most of the trackwork on the "Beeching boards" was lifted - well soaked in water with a drop or two of washing up liquid softened most of the ballast although a fair bit of the cork trackbed refused to budge.

A narrow piece of baseboard along the front edge was removed so I could gain access to the main board to find out why there was that annoying "hump" in the middle.  The lifted board sat above the 4 screw mounting block seen middle right.





This was the culprit - a bearer has pulled through the surface panel allowing the board to drop.  This shot was taken after removing the weight of the front board (a 1" x 6" chunk of solid timber :???:).




The track was cleaned up with a stiff brush whilst the ballast was still "mushy".  A real mix of track - Peco Code 100 and Code 75, Hornby flexi and Hornby set track (rusty steel !!!).




And a pile of deadfrog points, most of which will be "moved on" as I'm determined to replace everything with electrofrog (well, almost determined .............. :roll: :roll:)






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Plenty to get your teeth into Peter !  I would definately consider replacing those boards with ones from Maxmill as you have stripped the old ones anyway ?  At least then you know its your OWN dodgy work your dealing with, not someone else's !                    :mutley 

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I removed the problematic baseboard yesterday together with the corner piece (which, it turned out, was only supported by the main board).




I was very surprised to find that none of it (the layout) was actually fastened to anything !!  That would explain the unexpected level of transit damage.  What legs there are, are simply loose fitting "props" and nothing is fixed to either the floor or walls.  Maybe he'd planned to strip it out and sell the office unit separately ............................

The removed board was a traditional frame with chipboard top: 




I had originally thought a quick soak with "wet" water would loosen the roadbed and ballast but I think he must have used araldite or Cyano to glue it all down - it was well and truly stuck !!  I even tried boiling water - not too much because I didn't want to risk ruining the chipboard, but that had little, if any, effect:




At one stage, I even considered binning it and starting all over again.  Finally, I used an old 1" wood chisel as a scraper, a bit at a time, followed by sanding with a coarse sanding belt and eventually ended up with a pretty "clean" board which will be topped with "clic"  flooring underlay panels rather than the traditional cork.




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A work of art there Peter...

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I've often been called an "artist" Sol - just not sure what type of artist ..................................... :mutley :mutley

I'm much happier with it now - it was sure a mess before. :thumbs

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Petermac wrote:   Finally, I used an old 1" wood chisel as a scraper, a bit at a time, followed by sanding with a coarse sanding belt and eventually ended up with a pretty "clean" board

A bit of fine gentle modelling then Peter :lol:


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Sounds hard work that ! I would have tried unscrewing the top and turn it over. . . Then burnt it and started again  :thumbs
Or pored self levelling comp all over it :hmm

Keep up the good work, glad to see your managing to dodge domestic duties for some light wrecking work  :doublethumb

Cheers

Matt

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Hi Petermac.  Nothing wrong with that. Quite a nice job in fact. I am surprised about your comments on the layout not not being fastened down to anything. Nice legs, on the trestles that is. Best wishes Kevin 

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Ed wrote: Petermac wrote:   Finally, I used an old 1" wood chisel as a scraper, a bit at a time, followed by sanding with a coarse sanding belt and eventually ended up with a pretty "clean" board

A bit of fine gentle modelling then Peter :lol:


Ed

Yes indeed Ed - as a child, I wanted to become a brain surgeon.  I ended up in fireworks - close eh ?..........................

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:mutley :mutley :mutley

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Barchester wrote: Sounds hard work that ! I would have tried unscrewing the top and turn it over. . . Then burnt it and started again  :thumbs
Or pored self levelling comp all over it :hmm    Now why didn't I think of that Matt ...........


Keep up the good work, glad to see your managing to dodge domestic duties for some light wrecking work  :doublethumb

Cheers

Matt

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Passed Driver wrote: .................................................................... Nice legs, on the trestles that is. Best wishes Kevin 

I had to look again Kevin - didn't think I'd been in the shot .............. :cheers

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Nothing like a clean sweep Peter! I am convinced it was the right approach. You will be able to set up things so much more efficiently now.......well laid track with accessible electrics. :thumbs

Looking at that pile of surplus points reminded me of our house move 12 years ago. I soaked mine overnight in a tub of (initially)  warm water and a good dose of washing up liquid. The ballast all fell away and after a good rinse the points were fine and ready for re-use.

Cheers

John

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Having cleaned up the baseboard, I decided to add a "skeleton" to one side to bring it all back to the correct width, rather than replace the original heavy solid plank of wood which was sagging badly anyway.

This "skeleton" serves a dual purpose - firstly, as I've already said, it returns the board to the required width and secondly, it will carry the risers for the gradient taking the branch up to the higher level along the wall of the unit..




The next job was to cover the board with "clic floor" underlay for the roadbed.  This is the product I used - 5mm thick and cheap as chips.  It cuts quite easily with a craft knife although you do need plenty of new blades !! :




And less than 10 minutes later, it was all covered.  Fixed down using ordinary staples - a good, smooth, sound absorbing surface.  If it lasts, I'll be delighted :




Next job is to build a framework for it to sit on.  Once that's done, and I find a way to fix it to the walls and floor  without drilling holes (maybe "No More Nails" will stick to formica .....), I plan to lay the track and do the wiring with it flipped up on edge then, once completed, I'll lay it down, fix it to the carrying frame and make the rail and electrical connections at each end.  A sort of "modular" approach to avoid backache and other hazards working under a 3ft high baseboard when your bones don't bend anymore ..............

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Well done Peter.

ATB
Shaun.

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Hi Petermac  .It is good to see that you are getting on with your plans, but, in post 482 is that a past layout, or part of the new one? In earlier posts we saw the partly stripped baseboard and the solving of the doorway tight radius problem. I can hardly wait to see what comes next . Best wishes Kevin 

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Hi Peter

From my experience, No More Nails et al will only create a good bond with porous surfaces - although they will stick non-porous surfaces, the bond is not as strong.  That means you might have to screw a batten to the inside wall of the cabin and the sit the baseboard on top of it.  That way, you are not crawling under the baseboard trying to fix it to the wall.

Barry

Last edited on Fri Sep 20th, 2019 05:16 pm by Barry Miltenburg

Petermac
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Passed Driver wrote: ................................................in post 482 is that a past layout, or part of the new one? .................................................

Do you mean the bit of a layout you can see under the panel in this photo Kevin ? :



If so, it's part of the new layout.  The layout is inside a 20ft portable office unit.  I have removed the main board on the left hand side of the unit - the tracks etc. seen in the above photo are part of the right hand side of the unit and will be retained.

Petermac
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Thanks Barry - I trawled through loads of different mastic glues in the local DIY store today and, as you say, it appears most, if not all, require both surfaces to be porous.

I had imagined that would probably be the case - common sense suggests any glue has got to have something to grip onto, however slight it might be.

I will build a free standing sub frame and just use glue as a sort of resistance against the wall.  I'm not sure the unit has much in the way of resale value, or when and if that might need to be realised, but something tells me holes in the walls or floor wouldn't do much in the way of increasing that value .............................. :roll:.

It stood rigid for several years without being fixed to the unit and, if I hadn't bumped it about on the back of a lorry, would probably still be as good as new.  It was the ride that did most of the damage ..............

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Hi Peter. Not sure if you have BigMat in France but I tend to use some stuff called Masilla Poliuretano (Sellado y Pegado cola e veda). It's there own brand and I first saw it being used by the people putting on our sandwich panel roof for edgings etc so it must stand the heat and general weather. I wouldn't neccessarily trust it for a total bond to a side wall but it would certainly give you movement "resistance".

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Hi Petermac.  Thank you for your reply. I like your term” 20 foot portable office unit “, by the way do you own a pante’chnicon ? Or is that 20 foot made up smaller parts? Best wishes Kevin 

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Peter

Evo Stik  Sticks like Sh*t   (That is what its called)    that grabs virtually anything porous or not


Brian

Barry Miltenburg
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For the "full monty" as it were, there is a youtuber called The Ultimate Handyman who, a couple of yearsago, did a series of grab and stress tests with a whole range of these grab adhesives. As a result we use Nemesis which is very good. I am sure these things are sold under different names in different countries
Barry

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Hi Petemac, 

If I am following this correctly (no guarantee :lol:) this is about fixing the frame to the floor and walls without screwing/bolting. I was going to suggest contact adhesive where both sides are coated, left to dry, and then contact! Then the other neuron kicked in, and permanent adhesive might not be a good idea. If you simply want to keep them in place (with connections between the boards and frames of the "modules") then heavy duty silicon sealant/caulking ( "marine" grade) might be better. Strong enough to keep things in place, but a bit of flexilibility and easy enough to separate if necessary.


Nigel


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The existing layout is at a very awkward height for an old man .............................it's 3ft high.

That height makes it impossible for me to sensibly work underneath for any length of time.  Lying down isn't an option, kneeling quickly cripples me and I don't have a gnome readily to hand.

After some consideration, and only for this removed section, I decided the least difficult solution was to build a lower sub frame and mount the proper baseboards on risers.  The theory is, I can still store materials in boxes underneath the sub frame and all the "electrics" will be mounted on "panels" on the subframe top, using it as a sort of "table" under the main boards.  Soldering and other electrical work can then be done "on the flat" whilst I'm perched on a low stool.

The main boards will be carried on 6" risers above this framework :





I'm hoping I've left enough clearance between the heater and the baseboard at this end.  You can see the different levels between the higher main board (at the far end) and this sub frame - plenty for point motors, manual access and any soldering requirements etc. (at least, I hope so !!!)





This is the area where I wanted to "fix"  the frame to the unit wall.  Thanks to everyone who came up with suggestions - all taken on board and I did find  mastic which said it would stick to "plastic".  Not sure what Formica is but I don't think it's "poly" anything, which, understandably, seems to be a no-no for these mastic glues.  Whilst the frames are free standing, quite robust and steady, I still usedthe mastic type glue to "stick" it all to the wall for extra stability.  I have no idea how strong the bond is but I think it will do for my purposes :




AUSSIETRAINS
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Why didn,t you just make the legs longer Peter, or am I missing something ?

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Yes John - I think you are missing the idea of the subframe.

The layout is 3ft off the ground.  At that height, I find it very difficult to work underneath a baseboard - it's not high enough to sit under, too high to lie under and kneeling is hard on everything.

Additionally, working under a baseboard suggests looking up to whatever one is doing, with the attendant solder burns etc. etc.  I'm hoping with the subframe, I can treat is as a sort of low table, bringing all the wires down from the main board above, to panels fixed to the "table" and make all my connections "on the flat" as it were.

Hopefully, when I get that far, all will be revealed.  Of course, there's always the other chance that it simply won't work the way I'm hoping....................... :cool wink

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Peter it SOUNDS like a great idea !  Watching and waiting  :hmm 
Cheers

Matt

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Why not make them on sliders or drawer runners? Then you can pull it out. Or make the top boards on hinges so you can prop them up. You will need flexible wiring for the droppers. Great idea. Putting the wiring on the underneath of the top board is actually not sensible if you think about it. I may borrow the idea even though my next layout is around 46" high. 

 Nigel

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Hi Petermac.   50 odd years ago I built a 6’x 4’ Layout “ hinged on a shelf “ , the layout folded up against the wall.The idea of the shelf is to allow scenery when access is required for wiring. The layout can be raised, any manageable length and be as wide as necessary. Just an idea. Best wishes Kevin 

Last edited on Mon Sep 23rd, 2019 06:05 am by Passed Driver

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Continuation ....................

I placed, but didn't fix, the top deck on it's risers above the sub frames ready to take the storage/fiddle yard.  The open top part along the wall side will take the risers for the gradient up to the upper level.  Coincidentally, it will also allow the heat to escape from the electric convector heater near the door (bottom left off shot)  The reason I didn't fix the top deck is that I intend to flip it up onto it's edge once the tracks are in place to fit the point motors.  It will then be fastened to it's  cross beam bearers :




Shown here are the risers and space between the 2 levels (the hefty bit of timber plank is just "resting" - it doesn't belong !!)  Have you got the thinking behind it now John ?  (Aussietrains) :




Finally, a mock up of how I intend to mount all the electrics and do any soldering.  The sub frame will have a ply "plank" surface onto which all the necessary "gubbins" will be mounted.  Droppers will come down from the tracks above and be soldered to lengths of copper tape which in turn, will be attached to the main power bus.  I can easily access this area sitting on a low stool - much better than trying to work under the baseboard :



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Peter I take it the piece of wood we see sitting flat.. In front of the riser is NOT  the piece that will have electrics on ?
Will the electrics be on a plywood base behind that  piece ?. . . My concern is if the electrics WERE on that front plank they would be vulnerable as it would be a convenient dumping place for tools, biscuits, cups of tea etc. But if you were to turn that front piece into an L shaped shelf, and leave it loose, with the electrics behind on their own shelf , It would protect the electrics, give you somewhere for your cuppa and be easily moved if you need to do some electrickery 

:thumbs  liking the idea though ! 

Cheers

Matt

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Got it Pete, your putting your layout on top of a workbench. :doublethumb :doublethumb

Seriously I think your concept is great, nothing like making things easy and comfortable.

It ceases to be a hobby when things become uncomfortable.

Last edited on Mon Sep 23rd, 2019 04:36 pm by AUSSIETRAINS

Petermac
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BCDR wrote: Why not make them on sliders or drawer runners? Then you can pull it out. Or make the top boards on hinges so you can prop them up. You will need flexible wiring for the droppers. Great idea. Putting the wiring on the underneath of the top board is actually not sensible if you think about it. I may borrow the idea even though my next layout is around 46" high. 

 Nigel

I suspect there would be almost as much work involved making drawers or sliders etc. Nigel.  Also, it might be worth mentioning that most of the sub frame was sa