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Four-road Engine Shed - Scratchbuilding. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 04:25 pm
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Perry
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Well guys, the scratchbuilding bug has bitten again!

As you may have read elsewhere, my old layout is no more. A new Motive Power Depot (MPD) layout is currently in the track planning stage and the baseboards are under alteration. Despite all this, home decorating and a million and one other 'little jobs' that SWBO keeps finding me, I feel the need to get something going on the workbench again.

Some of you may remember that I knocked together a little goods shed a while back? Well, size-wise, this project is going to make that look like an outhouse! I want a four-road engine shed as a major feature of the new layout. I don't want a cardboard one, (no disrespect to you card modellers out there), and I don't want a kit that looks like everyone else's either. The only thing for me is to scratchbuild. I mainly use Plastikard, styrene strip, and the like, but this time there will be a slight difference. Because of the sheer size of this shed, I am planning on making the wall 'blanks' out of MDF. This will then be faced with Plastikard, giving strength and rigidity in one go as well as saving a few layers of Plastikard. MDF is cheaper!

The shed will be, in round figures, 1 foot wide (30 cms) and 2 feet long (60 cms). It is to represent a shed used by BIG locos such as 9F's, Brittanias, etc.

I am currently researching design and details. It will not be an exact copy of a specific shed, but will try to capture the general flavour of a shed from the eastern area of the country. After all, few sheds were identical. They were always getting altered and generally knocked about.

I have come up with a nice-looking front elevation for my shed, based upon a photograph of a former GER shed at Norwich Thorpe in 1933. I can therefore justify any alterations I make as my model is supposed to be set in the late 50's/early 60's.

I scaled up the photograph to give me a rough idea of how it all goes together, then after roughing out a plan on paper which showed where problems might occur, I set it out using the same free CAD program that Noah used to design the Ark. When all the proportions looked right and clearances had been checked, the track centres come out at 70mm. Being 20mm wider that the standard 50mm centre track spacing, it should help avoid the appearance of the locos being packed in too tightly. After all, I want to be able to see them!

When there is something to see, I will pop the odd picture on here, just in case anyone is curious. Don't expect this project to go off at a pace though. As I said, I've got a lot of other stuff on the go as well.

Perry



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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 04:30 pm
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owen69
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Perry have you thought of using foamboard ? better and lighter than m d f,
it is quite popular on the forum ..
:thumbs:lol::lol::cool:

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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 04:34 pm
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Gwent Rail
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Whether this one is to be a raging fast build, or a long slow burn, one thing is certain - it's going to be a thread to watch.

Any of our new members who haven't been introduced to a "Perry scratch build" should have a look at the goods shed he built and then sit back and learn.

Good to see you preparing for another project, my friend. Your audience awaits.:thumbs:thumbs 

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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 04:44 pm
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Perry
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owen69 wrote: Perry have you thought of using foamboard ? better and lighter than m d f,
it is quite popular on the forum ..
:thumbs:lol::lol::cool:

No, I hadn't considered it, but it's certainly worth thinking about. MDF would be heavy, even the thin stuff. Is foamboard the stuff that is sold in Artists Supply shops?

Perry



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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 04:48 pm
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Perry
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Gwent Rail wrote: ...........Your audience awaits.:thumbs:thumbs
Don't say that, Jeff. :oops: Someone might get the impression that I know what I'm doing! It's all done on 'a wing and a prayer' really.

It's good to be back.

Perry



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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 04:55 pm
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owen69
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yes that is the board i mean, but Ithink it can be got cheaper than craft shops,
Dave (87101 )on here uses it all the time, will pm him for more info.

:lol::cool:

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 Posted: Mon Sep 20th, 2010 04:55 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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I'm with Jeff, Perry.  The last one was a ball biter (Oz expression, meaning very good  :oops: ).  Bring it on.  :thumbs



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 Posted: Tue Sep 21st, 2010 02:34 pm
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Perry
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As is my habit, I spent a little while today constructing a card mock-up, just to see how the proportions of the building will look, and also to see how actual locos will appear when using it.

I had to eat four boxes of cereal to make this, so don't think I don't suffer for my art!



This is the general overview, showing eight bays of four roads, using a northlight design. The track is just some old scrap stuff I keep kicking around just for such use.

It has demonstrated that getting two 9F's in nose to tail would be impossible, so I might need to stretch the length a little.



Pushing the length to 2 feet might just do it.



The proportions of the 'doorways' look OK, and the whole thing comes in at under 10 inches. I might ease that out a bit too, possibly by beefing up the columns between the doors.



A view from a passing helicopter gives an idea of the available space between the roads.

I think this has been an exercise worth doing as it has shown that I need to be a little more generous with the dimensions overall, but has given me some idea what the finished model will look like. All it cost me was a little bit of time, some old cardboard and a few inches of sticky tape.

Back to the drawing board!

Perry



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 Posted: Tue Sep 21st, 2010 02:46 pm
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henryparrot
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Perry
You are right you need at least an extra saw tooth or go to the 2ft in total that way operation wise you can have 2 big locos 
Length wise and not get problems as there is not enough space to back them in and out  withought collisions .

I would have thought you will need some central support for the roof as thats quite a span.
Are you planning to have the roof as a lift off item for operational use also that will enable you to add a lot of interior detail to the shed.
Certainly worth you doing the card mock up on a structure that size.

Brian

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 Posted: Tue Sep 21st, 2010 03:01 pm
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Perry
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henryparrot wrote: Perry
You are right you need at least an extra saw tooth or go to the 2ft in total that way operation wise you can have 2 big locos 
Length wise and not get problems as there is not enough space to back them in and out  withought collisions .

I would have thought you will need some central support for the roof as thats quite a span.
Are you planning to have the roof as a lift off item for operational use also that will enable you to add a lot of interior detail to the shed.
Certainly worth you doing the card mock up on a structure that size.

Brian

I fully agree on changing the dimensions, Brian.

Columns similar to those between the doors will be replicated at intervals along the whole length of the shed to support the roof I believe this was the case in the prototype, going by photographic evidence.

The roof will have to be removeable in case of a 'loco failure on shed', so it will give me ample opportunity to detail the interior. This will involve some careful thought and planning prior to building, because it needs to lift off easily, give good access, but still be strong enough.

Perry



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 Posted: Tue Sep 21st, 2010 03:14 pm
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Perry
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Just a thought; I can't see any reason to keep operating couplings on any of the locos for the MPD with the exception of the tank engines that will move the coal, ash and sludge wagons. That way, locos backing into the shed can 'buffer up' without hooking up, so to speak. They will then be free to run off shed without dragging another loco kicking and screaming behind them. I think they will look better too. The tank engines won't use the shed anyway. Worth thinking about.



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 Posted: Tue Sep 21st, 2010 03:46 pm
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Alan
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Perry wrote: Just a thought; I can't see any reason to keep operating couplings on any of the locos for the MPD with the exception of the tank engines that will move the coal, ash and sludge wagons. That way, locos backing into the shed can 'buffer up' without hooking up, so to speak. They will then be free to run off shed without dragging another loco kicking and screaming behind them. I think they will look better too. The tank engines won't use the shed anyway. Worth thinking about.

That's a very good point, will this layout be DCC ?

Making up a dummy of the building first is such a clever idea, you can see with the size that it will be that you will need something as strong as 3mm MDF for the sides, and all you had to do was eat your way through three box's of sheddies !

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 Posted: Tue Sep 21st, 2010 04:20 pm
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georgejacksongenius
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Perry,
   Nice to have you back and scratchbuilding what I'm sure will be another masterpiece! I remember when I first joined being totally blown away by your goods shed.
Looking forward to seeing this develop.Its nice to be 'in on' the beginning and see how your ideas develop ,and I personally love the use of mock-ups.I think its a good way to work,especially as this is not a prototype building,and needs to be adapted to suit your own requirements.
  Here we go.......!!!
:doublethumb

Cheers,John.B.:thumbs

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 Posted: Tue Sep 21st, 2010 04:38 pm
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Stubby47
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5mm foamboard can be bought in A3 sizes, which should be big enough for one complete side of the shed.

HTH

Stu



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 Posted: Tue Sep 21st, 2010 04:46 pm
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Gwent Rail
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I'd say that you were almost there with the dimensions, Perry.

I'd certainly be stretching the width to 12" and thickening up the walls between each bay though.

The overall length looks enough for two large tender locos, but if you have ample room to play with, I'd be tempted to add another inch or two to the length as well. You could do with some space behind the locos to construct a walkway / path across the back of the shed.

 That will also give you room to fully detail the back wall with all sorts of tools and equipment exclam: :roll::roll::roll: :mutley:mutley

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 Posted: Tue Sep 21st, 2010 05:12 pm
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Not only the shed can have internal details but locos could be fitted with 3 link couplings, etc.
This might be finished in time for the 2012 Exhibition !

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 Posted: Wed Sep 22nd, 2010 04:10 am
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Perry
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Alan wroteThat's a very good point, will this layout be DCC ?

Making up a dummy of the building first is such a clever idea, you can see with the size that it will be that you will need something as strong as 3mm MDF for the sides, and all you had to do was eat your way through three box's of sheddies !


It will have to be DCC - my preference anyway - because I may want to stable locos buffer to buffer on the same length of track, regardless of the length of the loco. I wouldn't be able to do this with fixed-length switched sections that would be needed on a non-DCC layout.

Love the 'sheddies' gag! :Happy

Perry



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 Posted: Wed Sep 22nd, 2010 04:22 am
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Perry
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Gwent Rail wrote: I'd say that you were almost there with the dimensions, Perry.

I'd certainly be stretching the width to 12" and thickening up the walls between each bay though.

The overall length looks enough for two large tender locos, but if you have ample room to play with, I'd be tempted to add another inch or two to the length as well. You could do with some space behind the locos to construct a walkway / path across the back of the shed.

 That will also give you room to fully detail the back wall with all sorts of tools and equipment exclam: :roll::roll::roll: :mutley:mutley

Totally agree, Jeff. That's the value of mock-ups.

Thanks for the suggestion about the walkway. I hadn't thought about that, but it will need to be included in the final plan.

I'm going to extend the length to 2 feet and the width to 1 foot. I just measured two Britannias buffer to buffer and they come out at 22".  The supporting columns will look better if they are more subtantial too.

With a 2 foot long shed, less a few millimetres for the wall thicknesses, plus a rear walkway, they should fit in nicely.

Mock-up Mk II to follow - maybe. I'll get the cereal out and start eating!

Perry



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 Posted: Wed Sep 22nd, 2010 04:33 am
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Perry
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Stubby47 wrote: 5mm foamboard can be bought in A3 sizes, which should be big enough for one complete side of the shed.

HTH

Stu

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Are you suggesting this shed is rather large? :hmm

I am thinking about foamboard, but 5mm may be too thick. With a few layers of plastikard stuck to it I could well be up to 8mm total thickness. That's a scale 2 feet. I don't know that prototype loco shed walls were that thick - apart from the 16mm (2 x 8mm) of ground space that they would take up. It doesn't sound much, but 16mm is 5/8" in old money - far easier for an old codger like me to visualize. I also need to consider the fact that I may include windows along one side wall. Setting the transparencies back 8mm from the face may make the window reveals look too deep. Just something else I have to consider as the plan takes shape.

Perry



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 Posted: Wed Sep 22nd, 2010 04:37 am
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Perry
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Sol wrote: Not only the shed can have internal details but locos could be fitted with 3 link couplings, etc.
This might be finished in time for the 2012 Exhibition !

:roll::lol::lol::lol: The shed won't be portable. From the size of the thing, I think I could end up with a double hernia just trying to lift it! I also think the suggested time scale may be a bit ambitious. ;-)

Perry



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