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MaxSouthOz
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Progress so far:-  Following the purchase of a new USB hub card for my computer, I can now download the MOV files from my JVC (in case anyone's forgotten) camcorder on to my Desktop.

I can import them into my Prism Video Converter.  I can play them in the Prism Video Converter.  I can convert them in my PVC to .avi .mpg .3gp .mp4 .mov .flv and into .wmv & .asf.

These last two will actually capture into Moviemaker, but they are badly pixellated and the sound has suffered phase shift.  I bought Ulead editing software, but it is so perverse that I can't figure out how to capture the .wmv & .asf, to see if it handles them any better than Moviemaker.

This is like Sol's conversion to DCC, except that I'm still under A$1000 wasted on the exercise so far, where he has wasted more than ten times that much.  If anyone would like to see the videos I have made, please come to my home and watch them on the PVC.  I'm close to taking a HMR and SMSHNG the JVC to BTS!

:thud

Sol
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That's right - use me an a scape goat as a comparison for your overboard expenses & desires!
Not that I have spent ten times that amount but it does seem like it ( probably 4.5 times the amount but who is counting) - where is that clockwork loco gone now?

Now look Max, keep at it- you will get it sorted one day.

MikeC
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Max have you tried this one?

http://www.cocoonsoftware.com/

Quick Media Converter. Totally free, no trial period, converts MOV files.

Mike

 Make sure you get the latest version 3.6.5 if you decide to download.

Last edited on Thu Mar 19th, 2009 08:21 am by

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Max if you are using the video converter to get the video on to your pc the best format would be avi. I have never used the video converter myself so im just guessing that someware in the software will be a render function. This ties all the video and audio signals together. When you have your rendered AVI file done you should then be able to edit it. With the ulead software, open the video editor click edit then file. On the drop down select inport media to library/insert video. The clip will then appear in the boxes at the top right. Drag and drop onto the timeline then edit. ;-)

MaxSouthOz
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Hi Dave.  I'm not using the converter to get the files on to my computer.  I can drag and drop them from the camera hard drive on to my Desktop.  Then I use the converter to convert them from .mov to .wmv or .asf which are the only formats Moviemaker will accept - but the file has been damaged in the process, reducing the quality of picture and sound.  I can't capture anything with Ulead except images from my Skype camera, at this stage.  I'll try your instructions for Ulead tonight.  Thank you.

Hi Mike.  I'll keep your link and I'll have a go at it tonight.  Cheers Max

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And the challis from the palace has the brew that is true.

MaxSouthOz
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I could represent Australia in the dumbness competitions, sparky . . .  challis from the palace?

Sol
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sparky wrote: And the challis from the palace has the brew that is true.

From the Danny Kaye Movie - The Court Jester

http://familiesinzion.com/movies/court_jester.htm

which of course is a comedy so perhaps Sparky reads comedy in your  thread Max:exclam

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Still don't see the connection, Sol, but I digress . . .

Just had a quick go at your instructions, Brian.  Thanks.  The Ulead can't import the .avi file from the converter (from the My Videos folder).  The Prism people have been helpful with my earlier probs, so I'll email them and run it past them.

In the meantime, I'll give Mike's converter a go.  Cheers

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well i have to turn it into comedy ,me and instruction manuals just dont get on.i have bought the latest zippy dee doodah dvd recorder ,one day i might succeed in recording something.Its written in english captain but not as we know it.

MaxSouthOz
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Just as a matter of interest, Dave, is your camcorder one with a hard drive?  If so, does it make .avi files straight off?  Maybe I should trade mine in for one like yours.  It's a pity, though, as it makes great images.

MaxSouthOz
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MikeC wrote: Max have you tried this one?

http://www.cocoonsoftware.com/

Quick Media Converter. Totally free, no trial period, converts MOV files.

Mike

 Make sure you get the latest version 3.6.5 if you decide to download.

Hi Mike.  The AVS couldn't even see the camcorder files.  Cheers  Max

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Max my camcorder is an old samsung video8 !! The best results I got was with my dads JVC. Its just a standard DV tape model but it interfaces well with the PC via the firewire. I have a version of pinnical studio 9 that came with my usb capture device. When using the JVC camera with the pinical software I can control the functions of the camera from the PC. Once I have all the footage I just load it into ulead for editing. I was thinking of getting a new camcorder but after all the problems you are having I might look out for a secondhand JVC DV camera! ;-)

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Thanks Dave.  I thought it must be a different format from hard drive.  I can't believe that with all the thousands of camcorders sold around the world, that everyone is having the same problem.  I have tried many user group/ help sites without any success.  The little memory card type camera converts straight on to Ulead and MovieMaker, it's just that the picture quality isn't good.:cry:

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Dave has been helping me with this via PMs. I have changed the Encoder options on the video settings block. DV Encode PAL (Diect Show) and DV Encode NTSC (Direct Show)will convert the files now up to about 90% quality. The birds video was direct to Youtube off the camera, so the picture quality is excellent, but I want to be able to edit, so I'll have to accept 90%. It's the best result I have been able to get so far. Thanks to Dave and others for your interest and support. Cheers Max

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For those who have been following this thread, my most recent effort is also posted in the "Fitting Loksound Decoders" thread.  As the JVC format (.mov) isn't compatible with the editing software, it needs to be converted.  I have found that the Prism works OK, but there is an unavoidable loss of about 5% picture and sound quality in the process.  None of others I have tried have been able to avoid it, either.

If you look at it, you may want to EQ your sound player bottom ends up a bit - and make sure you click on the HQ (high quality) picture button.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6nA5kgvgpg

Thanks to everyone who has helped - particularly Dave who has had to cope with the many PMs.

I will be interested to hear your comments - good and bad - as to whether it's worth the extra effort to use a hard drive camcorder or not.

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Max, the vidoe of the consists looks good enough to me but then I really don't know what pain you've had to go through to get it to that stage.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that, when you buy a "personmal" video camera, the very least you should expect is that it should work with what people use to publish videos - the like of photobucket etc. etc. - without having to learn the ins and outs of who's camera works with what programme.

Your experiences have really put me off buying JVC although I had always thought them to be both popular and high quality.

If you were dealing with high-end broadcast type stuff, I could imagine there could be problems but with domestic equipment, it's just not acceptable !!!!  Afterall, most of us simply want to take and share videos, not become lab technicians !!!

Last edited on Sun Mar 29th, 2009 05:44 am by Petermac

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Excellent video Max. Whatever you did, it works! well worth the effort.
Love those Geeps.

Mike

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A great video Max and an excellent advert for fitting sound.

I am adding to this post because I have had another look at the video and now have a complaint to make. As I watch the train moving through different sections of the layout I can't help feeling that we are being deprived of some excellent still shots of the various sections. Time and inclination allowing any chance of rectifying this Max?

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WELL DONE !!!  :thumbs

 

Quality spot on just need to get you sorted with the ulead program now. Unlike my camera yours stayed in focus during the difficult tracking shots and in places I couldn't tell if it was real or a model! I agree with Robert more stills please. As you have used moviemaker you can just grab the pics from the video. Just a couple of pointers stick with basic crossfades between clips and keep the text across the bottom of the screen so as not to blank out the picture. This is how the pro's would do it and makes a big diffrence to the finished film. Once you are fimilar with ulead you will be able to edit and then create your own DVDs complete with titles, chapters, etc. If you need any more help im only a PM away! ;-)

 

 

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Thanks guys.    Dave, the Moviemaker only allows the captions to be right across the screen.  I mucked around with it for a while and gave up.  I really just wanted to get the thing done in the end!  Thanks for the offer on Ulead, Dave - I'm sure I will take it up.

Bob,  there are actually quite a few shots around the layout in various posts I have done so far.  I hope to do a dedicated "My Layouyt" thread, but I keep thinking, I'll just leave it until I've finished the turntable, etc . . .   The stills from the converted movie aren't great, so I should take a few with the Sony.

Peter, I don't think it's only JVC.  I was talking to a guy in Harvey Norman's who has a Sony and his is a hard drive as well.  He is experiencing the same problems.  I think they are more for playing back on your TV or computer.  If I did it all again, I think I'd buy a memory card type.

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I caught up with the JVC Rep last week and told him my story of woe.  He took my details, promising to follow up.  Today I had not one, but two calls from blokes from JVC Tech Support.  Following my conversations I came home to an email containing detailed explicit instructions and an upgraded manual.  It was truly amazing how many errors I still found from the old manual, but the new one actually worked.

Disguised as something else was an inbuilt converter tucked away in the Power Director - with the right Codec!  The files went straight from the camera, into the editing suite and then into the converter - not the other way around - and came out with no losses!

Chuffed to the back teeth, I rushed to burn off a DVD . . .   the DVD burner can't see the blank disc . . . :thud


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Good news at last!! :thumbs Im saying nowt about the DVD drive though. :lol: ;-)

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I have been following this with interest as I am in the market for a mini DV camcorder. I have seen a Canon MV900 and a Panasonic NV GS22 for sale here which look interesting. The trouble is my Spanish isn't good enough to be able to ask all the right questions. The canon uses tape for recording but I don't know if that's a good thing or not. Any advice people could offer would be helpful.

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Robert I have had experiance with DV tapes and the quality is very good. Unlike the older VHS and Hi 8 cameras the newer DV cameras use the tape to store the images as digital information. If the camera is equiped with firewire then editing is very easy. I have used my dads JVC DV camera with my PC and pinical software. The software even controls the camera functions via the firewire making video capture simple. I then use the ulead studio software for editing. A couple of years back we had a BBC camera man at work shooting some stuff for the local news and he was using the top spec sony DV camera. Just remember to use good quailty tapes!  ;-)

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Hi Bob.  A precis of my journey so far. To me, it seems like what you'll find in the shop will be memory card type and hard drive type. I wasn't offered any tape types.

  The hard drive comes in SD and HD (high definition) - only good for you if you have a HD TV.  The memory card types appear to make files in formats which will go straight into editing software (Moviemaker and Ulead), while the hard drive types make files in formats which need converting if you want to edit them into movies.

The hard drive types seem to make higher quality files than the card types and they come with their own editing software drivers which allow you to make your movies and then convert them into the format for burning or uploading.  Now I have the upgraded manual I have been able to make a good quality movie.

Why my burner will burn CDs and not DVDs is a local problem as far as I can tell.  I may have to pay a professional troubleshooter to find the cause.

In the meantime, I'm having counselling!:???:

Last edited on Mon Mar 30th, 2009 04:23 pm by MaxSouthOz

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It seems that the tape types are connected to your computer by a firewire and they download as MPE4's, I think.

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Developments today:-  Went to the computer shop.  "My computer tells me that there is no disc when I try to burn a DVD."  Computer shop man, "That's because it's only a CD burner.  Here's a DVD burner - A$40.00"  Me, "Thank you."

Takes new burner home and installs in tower.  Puts in favourite James Taylor DVD - it plays!  Fantastic!  Puts in blank disc and uses Nero to burn copy (after much trouble loading file into Nero).  Takes disc out and looks at it.  Can see the burn mark.

Puts disc into player.  Dialog box, "Disc in player is in wrong format."  Call computer shop man and tells him.  "That's right, you need to convert it to VOB."

Bangs head on desk.  It shouldn't be this hard . . .  :thud

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 It seems, Max, that you are not meant to have a video camera :hmm

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Well, Kev, you could be right.  I'm nothing if not tenacious.  Thanks to some more help from Dave, I have managed to produce a DVD using his favourite Ulead.  It siezed my laptop, but played OK in my DVD player in the lounge room.  Tomorrow night I'll have a go using the Everio software which came with the camera.

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Never say die Max, and always remember

 "If it can't be fixed with a hammer, you have an electrical fault" :thumbs

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I think I'll stick to my box brownie for stills and my super 8 movie camera for action !!

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As an aside to Max's saga, I copied a DVD with my DVD burner/player and guesswhat?It would not play back on my computer (still won't) but will play on the three other DVD players including a DVR digital player in the house.
 It will even play on my sons computer but the DVD burner/player that burnt the copy in my computer does not want to know.

Isn't technology wonderfull!

 Ian

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See, you should have kept that piece of string after all!

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Sol wrote: See, you should have kept that piece of string after all! Oh dear Ron, I thought you knew.
 I have moved on to the latest technology.

CLOCK WORK..
                                                                                          :cool wink

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I have a gramaphone !!!!

One good thing Max, you're certainly learning all about "progress" in the electronics world :roll::roll::roll:

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The final word.  First, my thanks to all here who helped me on this journey.

Lessons learned:-  Do not assume that, because you have a whizz bang computer, that it isn't fallible.  It took me a while to realise that the lack of USB hub power was stopping me from unloading my camera.  Without that first step, nothing else is possible.

JVC hard drive camcorders work best with the editing and producing software provided because they make .mov files which need to be converted if you want to use Ulead, MoiveMaker etc.  If you convert, the quality suffers.

If the software gives you trouble, pursue the manufacturer until you find the person with the missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle.  A simple upgrade and a plain english set of instructions and I was away.

Hard drive camcorders give really first class results and the editing and producing software do as well.  The format is different from Ulead and MovieMaker, but the software is very powerful once you get your head around it.

Thanks again for your interest and support during this very trying experience.

Marty
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Well done Max, never say never... great perseverance and some very useful tips along the way.

As a by the by... My recently purchased FujiPix camera takes video (probably not as high quality as your videocam), the video downloads via a USB cable to my computer and can be edited straight away by moviemaker.
With a 4GB SD card I get around 30min of video footage.
After your saga I think I got lucky.
Finding the time to do anything with the video I've shot so far is another thing altogether! But it will happen.

Once again, well done all for seeing this one through.

Last edited on Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 12:21 am by Marty

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That's gone some way to restoring my faith in JVC Max !!  I always liked their sound stuff but have no experience with their video.  A modern video camera is on my "list to buy before I die" !!!

Re the Fuji camera Marty, my new Panasonic Lumix will also take video - don't know what quality, length of recording nor the format - I've never tried it :oops::oops::oops: but I've hankered after a modern video camera for years.  I've got both an old Olympus VHS outfit and a Sony Betamax outfit.  The Betamax is far superior to the VHS but obsolete long ago now.  I suspect, like most electronic gear, no matter how good they were in their day, modern stuff leaves them all standing and are nowhere near as big and heavy.  Both the aforementioned cameras, whilst not that heavy,  are supported on your shoulder !! 

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Hi Marty and Peter.  My Sony Cybershot sill camera has a 4GB capacity using card technology - about 30 mins filming per card on video.

The JVC hard drive apart from a more malleable file type, has a massive 40GB capacity.  I videoed my friend's layout last Sunday.  I didn't hold back and came home with over 10GB of raw footage.

The movie came out at 1.49GB, so I can't upload it on to YouTube, but it took up about one third of a DVD when I burnt it.  Admittedly the transitions and soundtracks used a bit of space, but it was nice to just blaze away.  The battery held up all afternoon, too.

It was handy as a "dry run" as Jack and I now have a good idea of how the real movie will go; where the trains will run etc.  One thing which did surprise us, was we had one only steam loco on the layout, which is about 12 metres by 10 metres - so quite big, but we could hear the bloody thing chuffing away on the video  no matter where it was on the layout - even over the sound of the several sound equipped diesels which were running at the time!

It was a great afternoon's fun and even the rough movie I cobbled together afterwards was quite good - even if I do say so, myself!

Marty
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Max,
Thanks for the info, 40GB... whoo hoo. Hours and hours of fun.
Glad that it is working out the way you hoped it would.
Looking forward to some "little" videos on here when you get the chance.
cheers


                 

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