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Wombat Creek Consolidated Mines Pty Ltd - Narrow Gauge. - Other Areas. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Wed Apr 27th, 2022 06:53 am
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Claus Ellef
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Wombat Creek Consolidated Mines Pty Ltd

I have decided to have a separate entry for the writings regarding the narrow gauge railway connecting the goldmines, the explosives factory and the sawmill.

Wombat Creek still has two working goldmines. The Big Nugget Mine is near the centre of town. The Little Nugget Mine is situated somewhere to the east of town. The Little Nugget Mine only consists of the tunnels, where the gold ore is found. To get the ore processed it has to be moved to the Big Nugget Mine.

This is done by a narrow gauge railway. In mining terms the railway would probably be called a ‘tramway’, but to avoid confusion the term ‘tramway’ will only be used for the cars running at street level. The railway between the two mines utilises two former mining tunnels under the town. It just loops around the Little Nugget Mine but near the Big Nugget Mine and the nearby sawmill and explosives factory the railway has a more extensive layout with passing loop and sidings. The shed and workshop are also situated in this area.

The rolling stock, so far, consists of two steam locomotives and a rake of tipper wagons. This will be supplemented with a carriage for workers and various 4- and 8- wheeled wagons. The workers can transfer between the railway and the tramways at the sawmill.

So far the track work is still on the drawing board, but a track plan will be uploaded shortly.



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 Posted: Mon May 2nd, 2022 08:00 am
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Claus Ellef
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Track plan for the mine line

After 4 or 5 attempts – some even on paper – the current track plan looks like this



The first few plans were either to complicated with reversing loops or with a track under the tramway next to the shed. I think this will work. It will give the opportunity for a few shunting movements around the explosives factory and the sawmill. There is also room for a turntable in front of the shed.



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 Posted: Mon May 2nd, 2022 12:19 pm
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Hi Claus,

The inhabitants of Wombat Creek must like to live dangerously. Explosives factory and steam locomotives? Hopefully the ones servicing the factory are fireless ( or compressed air or battery powered). If the sawmill is steam powered there would be a stationary boiler for sourcing the steam. Don't forgot the gas masks for the crews going to the Big Nugget mine.


Nigel











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 Posted: Tue May 3rd, 2022 08:05 am
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Claus Ellef
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BCDR wrote: Hi Claus,

The inhabitants of Wombat Creek must like to live dangerously. Explosives factory and steam locomotives? Hopefully the ones servicing the factory are fireless ( or compressed air or battery powered). If the sawmill is steam powered there would be a stationary boiler for sourcing the steam. Don't forgot the gas masks for the crews going to the Big Nugget mine.


Nigel
Hi Nigel,
The good people of Wombat Crek do live on the edge! Not to mention the Explosives Factory and steam locomotives. The combination of explosives and steam locomotives is based on a real situation. The narrow gauge railway between Moe and Valhalla here in Victoria did have a wagon for explosives destined for the gold mines in Valhalla. The bogie wagon was built in 1910 and had two compartments - one for explosives and one for more common loads. So far I haven't seen any regulations regarding protective wagons between the explosives and the steam locomotive, but I will make sure the locomotive will not enter the factory! The sketch of the mine line is a bit unclear. The train stay above ground in the Big Nugget Mine area, so there shouldn't be any need for gasmasks. How the crews will cope with smoke going through the tunnel under the town is another matter, but wasn't the early trains on the London Underground steam hauled?



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 Posted: Tue May 3rd, 2022 08:54 am
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You could always use a "fireless" loco for the explosives factory .................. :roll:

A word of caution Claus - just in case you haven't thought about it - make sure you can access the hidden tracks under the town in the unlikely event of a derailment ........... :hmm

The plan looks good - plenty of potential there. :thumbs



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 Posted: Tue May 3rd, 2022 01:51 pm
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BCDR
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Hi Claus,

Steam coal or wood fired locomotives and any factory with combustible materials (chemicals, wood, paper, explosives) don't usually work very well together (or for very long). Low risk ones used spark arrestors (the MOD munitions warehouse complex at Didcot for example), High risk sites used fireless ones or compressed air. The track is generally laid to avoid sharp curves and sparks.  Fireless locomotives are very efficient, basically a large tank of supeheated water under pressure. Pistons are usually at the rear and often of compound design. Diesel locomotives were often preferred, especially where there was not a ready supply of superheated water from a stationary boiler. No sparks from electrical systems (except the glow plugs), mechanical fuel pumps, and hand cranked starting.


Railways had regulations regarding the shipment of explosives, especially in the days of dynamite. Well away from the locomotive, special vans lines with lead and felt over shoes to prevent sparks from hobnailed boots. Bronze wheels on wagons inside the factories, and usually human or pony traction (bronze horshoes?). I think any locomotive entering the works (as opposed to picking up a shipment from an external dock) would have to be fireless and have bronze wheels ( or run on wooden rails). 


The London Underground steam locomotives used charcoal, low smoke but still lots of carbon monoxide.  The track was basically in a trench and only covered where streets crossed. You can still see this between Paddington and Nottinghill Gate. Same went for the Metropolitan Line.


The ruins of an explosive factory might make an interesting scene....


Nigel



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 Posted: Tue May 3rd, 2022 10:35 pm
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Colin W
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BCDR wrote:

......
The London Underground steam locomotives used charcoal, low smoke but still lots of carbon monoxide.  The track was basically in a trench and only covered where streets crossed. You can still see this between Paddington and Nottinghill Gate. Same went for the Metropolitan Line.

Nigel

Ah, memories!

I'd forgotten about the London Cut and Cover stations still having elements of their original designs. I see Notting Hill Gate still has its glass roof. I'm more familiar with a similar station design on the District Line but even that was >50 years ago. Earls Court perhaps, or High St Kensington?

  




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 Posted: Wed May 4th, 2022 12:36 am
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Colin W
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Getting back on topic, this looks like a great project with lots of potential for operations.

Just a few thoughts on your ideas and the comments so far.

Explosives: most unlikely to be made on site, that is a relatively recent development with ANFO so it's more likely to be an Explosives Storage Bunker for dynamite, with high surrounding mounding. Detonators require a separate bunker. There is some good literature from the WA Govt here which may give you some ideas for your setting:

Storage of Explosives Regulations WA

Might it be better to have sidings coming up just to the side of bunker. I think the Regs would preclude internal offloading.

Sidings
I appreciate that this is an early design so just suggesting you test your stock movement requirements to ensure you can get wagons to/from the required destinations and have sufficient storage / movement options available

Locomotives
Any ideas yet on suitable engines for narrow gauge? Also testing whether OO might make more sense as incoming wagons from the port would be on Standard gauge and shifting to narrow would involve transferring goods (explosives).

This would give you excellent reasons to deploy some Pecketts and /or some of the new generation Works models coming out these days. These really are very fine little locos.



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 Posted: Wed May 4th, 2022 01:41 am
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Colin W
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Hi Claus,

One more thing,


Ore processing
Gold is typically found at very low concentration in its ores so processing necessarily is onsite.

Mined ore is treated /extracted by "Gold Cyanidation" so you need to have handling facilities for the sodium cyanide. The modern trend is to ship cyanide liquor by road but I think rail transport might be an option, perhaps for bulk solid NaCN and then a dissolution plant on site + (very) safe storage!

Colin


 




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 Posted: Wed May 4th, 2022 05:07 am
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Claus Ellef
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Petermac wrote: You could always use a "fireless" loco for the explosives factory .................. :roll:

A word of caution Claus - just in case you haven't thought about it - make sure you can access the hidden tracks under the town in the unlikely event of a derailment ........... :hmm

The plan looks good - plenty of potential there. :thumbs

Hi Pete,

I will have access to the hidden track from under the lay-out or by removing some buildings, retaining walls etc. 



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 Posted: Wed May 4th, 2022 05:10 am
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Claus Ellef
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BCDR wrote: Hi Claus,

Steam coal or wood fired locomotives and any factory with combustible materials (chemicals, wood, paper, explosives) don't usually work very well together (or for very long). Low risk ones used spark arrestors (the MOD munitions warehouse complex at Didcot for example), High risk sites used fireless ones or compressed air. The track is generally laid to avoid sharp curves and sparks.  Fireless locomotives are very efficient, basically a large tank of supeheated water under pressure. Pistons are usually at the rear and often of compound design. Diesel locomotives were often preferred, especially where there was not a ready supply of superheated water from a stationary boiler. No sparks from electrical systems (except the glow plugs), mechanical fuel pumps, and hand cranked starting.


Railways had regulations regarding the shipment of explosives, especially in the days of dynamite. Well away from the locomotive, special vans lines with lead and felt over shoes to prevent sparks from hobnailed boots. Bronze wheels on wagons inside the factories, and usually human or pony traction (bronze horshoes?). I think any locomotive entering the works (as opposed to picking up a shipment from an external dock) would have to be fireless and have bronze wheels ( or run on wooden rails). 


The London Underground steam locomotives used charcoal, low smoke but still lots of carbon monoxide.  The track was basically in a trench and only covered where streets crossed. You can still see this between Paddington and Nottinghill Gate. Same went for the Metropolitan Line.


The ruins of an explosive factory might make an interesting scene....


Nigel
 Hi Nigel,
Thank you so much for the above comments. For the time being I will use a conventional steam locomotive, but it will not enter into the factory. In the future I will consider to use a diesel locomotive on the factory siding.



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 Posted: Wed May 4th, 2022 05:19 am
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Claus Ellef
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Colin W wrote: Getting back on topic, this looks like a great project with lots of potential for operations.

Just a few thoughts on your ideas and the comments so far.

Explosives: most unlikely to be made on site, that is a relatively recent development with ANFO so it's more likely to be an Explosives Storage Bunker for dynamite, with high surrounding mounding. Detonators require a separate bunker. There is some good literature from the WA Govt here which may give you some ideas for your setting:

Storage of Explosives Regulations WA

Might it be better to have sidings coming up just to the side of bunker. I think the Regs would preclude internal offloading.

Sidings
I appreciate that this is an early design so just suggesting you test your stock movement requirements to ensure you can get wagons to/from the required destinations and have sufficient storage / movement options available

Locomotives
Any ideas yet on suitable engines for narrow gauge? Also testing whether OO might make more sense as incoming wagons from the port would be on Standard gauge and shifting to narrow would involve transferring goods (explosives).

This would give you excellent reasons to deploy some Pecketts and /or some of the new generation Works models coming out these days. These really are very fine little locos.

Hi Colin,Thank you for your comments.
I have some vintage narrow gauge locomotives (read: 40+ years with sentimental value), I would like to put into service. There reason for a 'Explosives Factory' instead of just a depot is the opportunity to have trams with destination 'Explosives Factory'. As part of my guided tours at the Melbourne Tram Museum I tell the story about the Footscray trams destined for the Explosives, Ordonnance, Pyrotechnic and Ammunition  Factories adn I would like to have the same feature in Wombat Creek.
I am aware of the length of sidings, especially the one between the Factory and the Sawmill.



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 Posted: Wed May 4th, 2022 05:25 am
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Claus Ellef
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Colin W wrote: Hi Claus,

One more thing,


Ore processing
Gold is typically found at very low concentration in its ores so processing necessarily is onsite.

Mined ore is treated /extracted by "Gold Cyanidation" so you need to have handling facilities for the sodium cyanide. The modern trend is to ship cyanide liquor by road but I think rail transport might be an option, perhaps for bulk solid NaCN and then a dissolution plant on site + (very) safe storage!

Colin


 


Hi again,
The Big Nugget Mine will have all the facilities for gold processing. I plan to visit Central Deborah Gold Mine in Bendigo to get some ideas for and photos of the required buildings. Moving ore from the Little Nugget Mine wouldn't happen in real life, but it will give more train movements.



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 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2022 06:38 am
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Claus Ellef wrote:  Hi again,
The Big Nugget Mine will have all the facilities for gold processing. I plan to visit Central Deborah Gold Mine in Bendigo to get some ideas for and photos of the required buildings. Moving ore from the Little Nugget Mine wouldn't happen in real life, but it will give more train movements.

Hi Claus,

Guess what? This is the view from the balcony of our Motel today.



We took the Mine Tour yesterday, brilliant! Can't recommend too highly, with excellent commentary and a self-guided tour afterwards will meet many of your needs. What a coincidence as we planned this break a few months ago. You'll love it.


The walkway from the Poppet (Mine head and lift hoists) heading left was where the ore was pushed in carts to be dropped down into the crushing presses. The track is an interesting study in narrow gauge rail, its profile not unlike Bullhead but with a wider footing. I noted that in the mine tunnels the tracks had check-rails still visible on the tight corners. They used to take the carts around at some speed!











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 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2022 08:04 am
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Interesting turnout there Colin.



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 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2022 11:45 am
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Sol wrote: Interesting turnout there Colin.
Indeed.

What do you reckon, A2 Geometry or something close perhaps?



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 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2022 09:57 pm
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Almost reminiscent of 00 Wrenn turnouts - closed frog style
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 Posted: Sat May 14th, 2022 06:57 am
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I look forwards to seeing more. Lots of good advice on here already!



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 Posted: Mon May 16th, 2022 09:33 pm
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Those Following this Topic please re check the ' Watch Topic' option, below the quick reply box, on the left, below the last post. You may STILL not get notified of new posts but that be Gremlins in the Software rather than me moving post's here


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 Posted: Tue May 17th, 2022 09:27 am
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Barchester wrote: Those Following this Topic please re check the ' Watch Topic' option, below the quick reply box, on the left, below the last post. You may STILL not get notified of new posts but that be Gremlins in the Software rather than me moving post's here


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Thank you, Matt, for moving 'Wombat Creek Consolidated Mines Pty Ltd' to the right forum 'Narrow Gauge'.



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