Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Other Areas. > General Model Railway Discussion. > What's going on? To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

What's going on? - General Model Railway Discussion. - Other Areas. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Mon Mar 7th, 2022 10:08 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 1st post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1330
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Just returning to the hobby after a break of four years and noted that the cost of locos has gone up with some costing almost 50% more now for the same model and tooling. Fortunately I have a large fleet of locos that I have built up over 20 years so I doubt I will be in the market for more.

However, I fell off my chair when I tried to find replacement nickel wheels for the brass ones on my Heljan class 35.
Howes had been selling them for GBP11.50 but advised me that they are now longer the agent for Heljan and suggested I try Gaugemaster.
Gaugemaster do have the wheel-sets I am looking for but, instead of GBP11.50 for a pack of 4 ( one loco) they are now GBP22.50 for a pack of 2!!!   That's almost a 400% increase !!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:.  How do they justify that?

I shall be sticking to my brass wheel sets.




____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Mar 7th, 2022 10:59 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 2nd post
Colin W
Full Member


Joined: Thu May 2nd, 2019
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1009
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Not the only things that have shot up in price over that period I'm afraid. In many cases there's a lot of catch up happening because of lack of pricing power meant suppliers and retailers had to absorb cost increases.



____________________
Colin

Upper Hembury GWR BLT Westown-Heathfield
WC≺ Workbench
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Mar 7th, 2022 05:43 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 3rd post
Petermac
Admin


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 19097
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

It's  once again becoming a rich man's hobby ......

I have certainly curtailed my own expenditure on rolling stock and, having acquired a little more skill in the repairs domain,  wondered about having another try with "previously owned" models.

The cost of these seems to be even more inflated than new stuff plus post Brexit charges make it a very risky business from here.




____________________
'Petermac
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Mar 7th, 2022 09:05 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 4th post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3673
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Dave,

Check Ultrascale for replacement wheels/axles ("Eco") or complete replacement wheels/axles/gears ("Complete"). Depending on the age of your model you might want to check the current gears for splits before buying wheels.

Wait time is anywhere between 4-8 months. Cheaper than Gaugemaster.

I gave up on new stock a few years ago. Usually cheaper to repair old stock.

Nigel





____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Mar 10th, 2022 02:34 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 5th post
rector
Fumbling around.


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Greer, South Carolina USA
Posts: 3976
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

As another returnee I am thinking the very same. Rolling stock in the USA has increased dramatically in price. I find that reasonable prices for track (HO/N) are easier to find by shopping around online. Even eBay may be used - with caution. But as Petermac wrote, it's becoming a rich man's hobby. 
On the upside, maybe this will push people (back to?) in the direction of scratchbuilding, making scenic materials at home, learning repair skills etc.  :thumbs



____________________
Tim. Ex-pat, retired cleric, artist, amongst other things.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Mar 10th, 2022 09:01 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 6th post
TeaselBay
Novice
 

Joined: Fri Aug 4th, 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1288
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Petermac wrote: It's  once again becoming a rich man's hobby ......

The rich or the stupid! I’m unfortunately the latter!



____________________
Chris

Teasel Bay

Teasel Bay on Facebook
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Mar 25th, 2022 08:28 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 7th post
Gwiwer
The Mermaid Inspector


Joined: Sat Oct 25th, 2014
Location: Upon A Hill Of Strawberries, United Kingdom
Posts: 1294
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Petermac wrote: It's  once again becoming a rich man's hobby ......

I have certainly curtailed my own expenditure on rolling stock and, having acquired a little more skill in the repairs domain,  wondered about having another try with "previously owned" models.

The cost of these seems to be even more inflated than new stuff plus post Brexit charges make it a very risky business from here.


Prices are rising faster than many of us can keep up with.  Perceived value for money is falling sharply I'm afraid.

We have demanded, and have often got, ever better and more refined models many of which are now mass-produced masterpieces of micro-engineering and very far from the toy trains some of us might have grown up with. 

This all comes at a cost at a time when global costs are climbing Everest.  

Only yesterday I felt obliged, against my instincts, to cancel a pre-ordered item with a well-known retailer whose commissions I normally support.  Pre-ordered around two years ago at £130 I expected there might be a change but was unwilling to pay the £180 list price the model was finally released at for a humble shunting locomotive.  Even with a retailer discount and a bit more discounted in respect of having ordered in good faith at one price I wasn't comfortable parting with the requested number of modelling tokens.  

That's not the first time I've cancelled based on sharply-rising prices.  But it is the first time for a retailer's commission.  Which doesn't do anyone right across the supply chain any favours at all.  



____________________
Rick
Layouts here and here
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Mar 25th, 2022 09:03 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 8th post
MarkL71A
Full Member


Joined: Sat Aug 2nd, 2014
Location: Chandlers Ford, United Kingdom
Posts: 67
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Maybe the rising cost of RTR items from China is a blessing in disguise? Perhaps it is time for people to learn or relearn the skills that make this hobby so fascinating?
I for one would love to hear more from people who are building their own rolling stock and locomotives. The chance to share tips and techniques with like minded modelers would be most welcome. 
Would people here be interested in blow by blow accounts of how to put kits together or how to scratch build items? 
I am happy to get that ball rolling with some items in the queue on my work bench after a time away from the workshop. (I now have new lenses in my eyes and can see to put things together straight again. When when you look at your steel ruler and see a curve in its edge you know you are in trouble. :hmm)

I have to fix a couple of wonky items first but I will be opening new boxes very soon.  



Who is interested?



____________________
MarkL71A,
Chandlers Ford
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Mar 25th, 2022 09:24 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 9th post
Longchap
Full Member


Joined: Wed Mar 25th, 2015
Location:  Saumur, France
Posts: 2321
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

MarkL71A wrote: Maybe the rising cost of RTR items from China is a blessing in disguise? Perhaps it is time for people to learn or relearn the skills that make this hobby so fascinating?
I for one would love to hear more from people who are building their own rolling stock and locomotives. The chance to share tips and techniques with like minded modelers would be most welcome. 
Would people here be interested in blow by blow accounts of how to put kits together or how to scratch build items? 
I am happy to get that ball rolling with some items in the queue on my work bench after a time away from the workshop. (I now have new lenses in my eyes and can see to put things together straight again. When when you look at your steel ruler and see a curve in its edge you know you are in trouble. :hmm)

I have to fix a couple of wonky items first but I will be opening new boxes very soon.  



Who is interested?



Yes, yes and yes please Mark.

I need a small surgical procedure next month and after some recovery, aim to make a lightening UK visit to recover my loco building tools from a good friend, as I have a stash of relevant kits to build and still need to learn some techniques, like sucessfully folding up etched hornblocks, which have been a disaster so far.

It would be great to see people building rolling stock once more.

Best,

Bill



____________________
At 6'4'', Bill is a tall chap, then again, when horizontal he is rather long and people often used to trip over him! . . . and so a nickname was born :)

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Mar 25th, 2022 11:23 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 10th post
Petermac
Admin


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 19097
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I'll second Bill's sentiments Mark. :thumbs

It would be great to see some of the kit manufacturers filling their order books again although I do wonder what their locomotive prices will be now.............. :hmm  

In the past, by the time one had purchased "extras" - wheels, motor and gearbox,  the cost of the parts often exceeded the cost of the RTR model.  Rolling stock in kit form seem to offer savings over RTR but that probably boils down to the difference in price between plastic and metal.

As far as I'm concerned, I still have a few DC locos to convert (if it's actually worth it) plus, being keen on sound, I can spend the odd Euro on swapping ordinary decoders for sound chips. 

By the time I've done that, prices will have dropped to a more sensible level.................and that pig will have landed.   :cheers



____________________
'Petermac
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Mar 26th, 2022 02:34 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 11th post
MarkL71A
Full Member


Joined: Sat Aug 2nd, 2014
Location: Chandlers Ford, United Kingdom
Posts: 67
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Bill,
You silver tongued devil. You have talked me into it. Let me straighten some of my wonky stuff out and I will get cracking. 

May I suggest starting with simple open wagon kits first and the building up to locos in due course? 

If you are referring to Colin Gibbon's fold ups I do use these and hopefully I can cover what you need to know. 




____________________
MarkL71A,
Chandlers Ford
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Mar 26th, 2022 03:20 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 12th post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3673
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Interesting. All this DIY/kit locomotive building sounds great, but it pays to really look hard at the costs.

I've mentioned this before, but a brand new steam HOn3 locomotive (my current model layout project is an HOn3, for those not familiar HO scale on 10.5mm gauge track) is going to be somewhere north of $600 (£450) if and when manufacturing slots appear in China. it will have DCC sound. Trawling eBay will get me a PITA locomotive for a minimum of $150-$200, and that was made some 50-60 years ago with highly questionable motor, gears and wheels that will all need replacing. Figure in another $150. Add to that it isn't exactly what I want, so that's another $50 in cast brass chimney, domes, airbrakes, etc. Throw in a decent sound decoder and speaker - another $120. somewhere around $500 without my time added in.

I'm currently looking for a Mogul (2-6-0) or 2 in HOn3. Only 2 used types ever come onto the market, both date back to the 1960s-1970s. So I'm looking at drawing up some 2D diagrams and getting the body, tender and chassis done in etched brass. Budget somewhere around $120 for that, another $120 for the various body detailing bits, another $120 for the wheels/axles/rods. Somewhere around $400.

On the GWR modeling side of things my 56xx locomotive (scratch built body, not by me, I just wish I could build like that) needs a set of wheels, and probably a new chassis. as it was built to OO gauge, not EM gauge. £100+ depending on where I get the wheel-set. Throw in a motor/gearbox and a DCC decoder, another $150+

Looking at UK kits it's going to run around between £200-£400 for a complete package, around £100 for the body etchings. Small quarry types can be found for around £100.

I stopped buying new stock a few years ago, some second-hand items I avoid (for example Bachmann Manor class and other early Branchline locomotives with the cracked gears, Hornby tender drives with the loose driver rims), I have 3 LIMA GWR diesel railcars that still whir along quite nicely.

I suspect for most modelers that unless they have modeled out of the mainstream kit building and scratch building can seem daunting. It's not, unless whoever designed the kit made a mess of it (I've had a few of those....). I have come to the conclusion that the real advantages of kit/scratch building are the ability to spread the cost over a time-frame that you decide, and building what you want, not what the manufacturers offer.

3D printing is another approach, especially for small items such as chimneys and domes. it's still not cost effective for locomotive body shells unless they are small.

Just a few thoughts.

Nigel






____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Mar 26th, 2022 03:52 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 13th post
Longchap
Full Member


Joined: Wed Mar 25th, 2015
Location:  Saumur, France
Posts: 2321
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

MarkL71A wrote: Bill,
You silver tongued devil. You have talked me into it. Let me straighten some of my wonky stuff out and I will get cracking. 

May I suggest starting with simple open wagon kits first and the building up to locos in due course? 

If you are referring to Colin Gibbon's fold ups I do use these and hopefully I can cover what you need to know. 



Well that was easy Mark, well done and I’m glad you’re happy to share your insights to the fascinating and most useful pastime of building and bashing stock.
 
The hornblocks are the High Level Standard (without tags) and seem simple enough in the instructions. They’re certainly very small, but hopefully, I’m missing something really simple with my technique, so I need to practice more. https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/downloads under ‘All Hornblocks & Tags. Unfortunately my Pendon loco kit chassis building course was cancelled at the last minute last year due to the very sad and sudden death of the co-presenter.
 
I’m confident enough with open wagons, vans and coaches and happily bash and detail these. Unfortunately, the kit stash has not decreased sufficiently, so as the layout becomes more operational, I intend to build more kits.

Good luck with the wonkies!

Bill





____________________
At 6'4'', Bill is a tall chap, then again, when horizontal he is rather long and people often used to trip over him! . . . and so a nickname was born :)

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Mar 26th, 2022 09:49 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 14th post
Colin W
Full Member


Joined: Thu May 2nd, 2019
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1009
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

BCDR wrote: Interesting. All this DIY/kit locomotive building sounds great, but it pays to really look hard at the costs.

I've mentioned this before, but a brand new steam HOn3 locomotive (my current model layout project is an HOn3, for those not familiar HO scale on 10.5mm gauge track) is going to be somewhere north of $600 (£450) if and when manufacturing slots appear in China. it will have DCC sound. Trawling eBay will get me a PITA locomotive for a minimum of $150-$200, and that was made some 50-60 years ago with highly questionable motor, gears and wheels that will all need replacing. Figure in another $150. Add to that it isn't exactly what I want, so that's another $50 in cast brass chimney, domes, airbrakes, etc. Throw in a decent sound decoder and speaker - another $120. somewhere around $500 without my time added in........................

..........

Just a few thoughts.

Nigel
Agreed!

Even if you have the skill base, costs have skyrocketed in many aspects of our modelling and one in particular impacts those of us overseas. Postage.

A Kit build will mean all sorts of bits and pieces needing to be sourced from various small specialist suppliers. Not long ago £6 got you no frills postage to the Americas, antipodes etc, then it ran up to £8 then £10 and now in their latest email Hattons advise £15, passing thru rising Royal Mail costs. Other suppliers were charging me this much even before the latest rise, how much from April 1????

If I buy a wagon kit from supplier A, then wheel sets are only available from B and trimmings such as buffer stops, piping and roof vents from Co. C, it will become something near impossible to justify for a single kit build.

In the context of Nigel's analysis, modern RTR locos still must offer good value given the general improvements in most areas in the last 10-15 years but if they don't run well then the cloud of return postage costs just darkened by several shades of grey.

Then, wagon, van and coach building and kit bashing remain as attractive targets for populating our layouts. The skill set required is less than for loco building and very satisfying results can be obtained. Some of the base wagon and coach kits readily available provide a great starting point for bashing into a wide variety of models which will never see the commercial light of day. The "other place" (when it gets back up and running) has at least two excellent specialist topics devoted to such matters. I've had much help from the content and via contact with the OPs.



____________________
Colin

Upper Hembury GWR BLT Westown-Heathfield
WC≺ Workbench
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Mar 28th, 2022 02:13 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 15th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1330
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

BCDR wrote: Hi Dave,
Check Ultrascale for replacement wheels/axles ("Eco") or complete replacement wheels/axles/gears ("Complete"). Depending on the age of your model you might want to check the current gears for splits before buying wheels.
Wait time is anywhere between 4-8 months. Cheaper than Gaugemaster.
I gave up on new stock a few years ago. Usually cheaper to repair old stock.
Nigel

Thanks for the suggestion Nigel.  I pondered for a while but have decided that as I am now retired I can afford the time to clean the original brass wheels rather than fork out for replacements. 
I will just have to run the locos more often ..... now thats a thought  ;-)



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Mar 29th, 2022 11:06 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 16th post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3673
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Dave,

I did come across a replating service for worn treads. Probably a more realistic approach and a lot less expensive. Should work for never plated brass.


Nigel



____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Mar 29th, 2022 11:16 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 17th post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3673
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Dave,

Sierra Scale Models.


Nigel



____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Mar 29th, 2022 06:35 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 18th post
Gordon Curtis
Full Member


Joined: Thu Jan 18th, 2018
Location: Dudley, United Kingdom
Posts: 113
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi all,

Just to add my two penn'orth worth.

Yes prices for model rail items have rocketed, but so has everything at the moment! I don't agree with the UK government's 6.2% figure, some of my grocery items have gone up much, much more than that. Add to that the price of car fuel and house fuel! Also, employers have got used to not giving pay rises. It's turning into the 1970s really rather quickly!

With the exception of souvenir wagons, I haven't bought any new items for a few years now, and even with wagons I draw the line when a humble wagon is over a tenner. When they are £18 - £20, it's a no go!

My model hunting grounds are the well known internet auction site. I keep my eye out for nice condition models, with good accompanying photographs, at sensible prices. When I win/buy a model, I always add a note to the seller to pack the model well in a good box, even if the model is in a manufacturers box, as these do not travel well with our postal service. I also recommend model railway shows – there you can look at what you are buying first, though you might be paying a little more than on the internet.

Model rail clubs can also be helpful so far as new and used models go.

I always take into account that the model will need a service and clean to make it run well. And remember, some manufacturers models age better than others!

So far as the highly details new models go, yes that are wonderful! But, with my eyesight, I can't see the detail, and I have a habit of breaking bits off in my hand!

All the best

Gordon

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 16982     Current time is 01:21 pm  
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Other Areas. > General Model Railway Discussion. > What's going on?
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic

Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topic

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.