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Going large - building large layouts - Layout Design, Trackwork & Operation. - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sun Oct 17th, 2021 05:30 pm
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Petermac
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I was about to say they made a few spelling mistakes Barry - then I read your post ................ :mutley

That looks highly professional - you'll have to call it your flight deck rather than a control panel.  You'll also need to acquire a stove-pipe hat before you can use it.....................

Nice, appropriate colour - looking forward to seeing it with the hardware mounted - will it have coloured lights to show you what's going on ?




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 Posted: Sun Oct 17th, 2021 08:23 pm
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TeaselBay
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Looks interesting, I’m intrigued to see it populated. 



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 Posted: Sun Oct 17th, 2021 08:31 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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Peter/Chris

There are no lights - in theory, turning the knob to letter "B", for example, shows that section is set to controller B.  It's as simple as that so I'm not having lights.

The abbreviations for the sections came about because using the full titles made the font so small!!

I, too, look forward to seeing in populated and will post a picture when done.

Barry



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 Posted: Sun Oct 17th, 2021 10:17 pm
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Colin W
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Barry Miltenburg wrote: Quick post.  The Master Cab Control Panel has arrived!

.....................................................................

The sections are Up 1, Up 2, Up 3 (Up main split into 3 sections), ditto Down line, Trinity Square main line, Trinity Square yard (including loco shed), Trinity Square Storage sidings, Yarslow Yard, Yarslow PW sidings, Storage Area Loco yard, Branch and Branch loco shed.  Controllers are designated A-D at Yarslow, E-G in storage, H = branch and J & K at Trinity Square.  L is a spare in case I find the need of another one somewhere.  I thought that an "off" was a safe option when the section was not in use.

Wiring up 14 sections into 10 controllers is going to be a load of fun but at least I can do it on the bench.  All of the section and point wiring under the baseboard has caused my knee to blow up!  I have realised this week that although I am right-handed, I am left-kneed - that is I tend to rest on my left knee when working at low levels.  Things you learn about yourself as a modeller!!

Bashing on..........
..

Brilliant! Great progress there Barry.

Now I remember why I decided to go "small" with mine, there are only 13 cards in a suit and 1 "controller" and Bridge is demanding enough for my brain!  :twisted:



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 Posted: Tue Oct 19th, 2021 04:17 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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Thanks for the encouragement Chris!

In the absence of a desire to go crawling under the baseboard again to wire up the Trinity Square storage sidings until my knee feels better, I have started to unpack the trains.

Today I unboxed and arranged the 450-odd wagons that the line owns, using the Train Table posted above to create the various fitted and unfitted trains in each direction.  I thought that I was about 80 wagons short - mostly in the Stopping Freight and Vans Trip rotation groups.  The big advantage of getting the stock out is that I can now see precisely how much more rolling stock I need.

As I mentioned earlier, siding lengths were "nominal" - e.g. 22 wagons.  Having set out the trains, the slightly longer wheelbase stock can consume space and the train could actually only be 21 wagons long.  That doesn't sound much but over the 31 freight trains that appear on the layout, that can add up to quite a cash saving!  The passenger trains (which I will do tomorrow) are a simpler prospect as coach lengths are more standard and an extra/less vehicle is far less likely.

The other big move today is to start testing that the "slow-down" zones and isolator sections do their jobs and that each train doesn't run into the back of the one stored in front of it when returning to storage [my storage sidings are stacked 2 trains in each requiring the rear train to shuffle forward when the front one leaves - I'll do a piece on that for clarification when I am next in the shed with the camera]

One final bit of luck - I do not mix couplings within trains so a consist will have either the small tension lock or the old Hornby big one.  By pure chance, there is enough stock to make 3 complete trains of big tension lock couplings without any wagons left over!!  Not planned but certainly welcome.  Anything requiring shunting uses small tension lock only.

Bashing on.........



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 Posted: Wed Oct 20th, 2021 03:41 am
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Hi Barry,

I'm turning my mind to my storage area for the new layout.

Checking back to your Yarslow .any file you shared (Dec 20), I set the grid to 40mm to see what your Storage spacings are set at. All the down lines sit on exactly 40mm apart which since you're working in Imperial units was a big surprise, but a good one as that was precisely what I'm aiming to use. For some reason the up lines are a mm or so nearer together.

How are you finding these spacings? With no experience of having a storage area I'm not wanting anything unexpected and was a bit concerned my choice might be too tight.

Colin




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 Posted: Wed Oct 20th, 2021 04:56 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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Hi Colin

I set my spacing to an imperial distance - 1 1/4 inches rings a bell.  Its raining monsoon proportions today so I cannot check that but I'm sure its right.  When the weather improves and I can reach the boat ( :lol:), I will get to the shed and check for you.

The spacing is perfectly fine - I checked with 2 outside cylinder engines for clearance.  In fact...........



yesterday I unboxed about 400 wagons and started to set out the main line freight trains.  No clearance problems at all.  HOWEVER - all my sidings are dead straight.  If you have any curves, these tight spacings would not work.

All of the locomotives have been allocated to these trains and they have all had at least one lap of the circuit to test siding lengths - despite my best efforts, some pairs are slightly uneven - that is the front siding is an inch shorter than the back one.  That means that when the back train is advanced as the first one leaves, it doesn't fit into the allocated space :cry:.  Not a major issue, just an adjustment of the train length by a wagon.

What is a major issue is the 20 Ohm resistors making the slow-down zones.  Some of the older engines are very unhappy about this and really struggle to get through.  I did some experimenting with 10 Ohm resistors and they were a lot better but still not perfect.  The new engines don't react at all to 10 Ohms so I might be tempted (for the freight trains) to simply scrap the slow-down zones and remove the resistors.  After all, nothing is going that fast anyway.  I will keep them on the faster passenger sidings.

Along the same lines, the idea of advancing a train along the storage siding as the one on front of it departs is also throwing up some curved balls, especially again with the older engines,  The old Bachmann V2 2-6-2's must be drawing about 3 Amp because the trains behind them refuse to move!!  The solution is either a bit of extra wiring and switches to allow the storage siding auxillary controller to move the trains up, or acceptance of the problem knowing that the old locomotives will, in the next few years, probably need replacing anyway.  With a bit of juggling, I could withdraw the V2's to lesser duties (or to eBay) and bring in newer/spare engines now but I like them and their appearance on a secondary main line E-class freight is right for my era.

Away for a week now so a chance for a break, for my knee to get better and to start again next week with a new heart and new reel of wire.  Storage siding pointwork awaits - oh joy!!

Resting............



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 Posted: Wed Oct 20th, 2021 05:00 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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Colin

The track centres are 1 1/2 inches (38.5mm) so your choice of 40mm looks fine.  Again I would stress, this is for straight track.

Barry



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 Posted: Wed Oct 20th, 2021 07:17 pm
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Hi Barry   On the subject of your wagon collection,out of the ones that you have, have you got any idea what manufacturers/ details are among your collection . Because personally as far as mine are concerned “I couldn’t give a monkeys “ as Long as they would couple and uncouple “. I don’t want to cause any offence to anyone.:off topicwhy does this keypad pop into italics by itself? On the subject of going large I think if it was me I’d call it going Loco. Best wishes Kevin



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 Posted: Wed Oct 20th, 2021 07:38 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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Hi Kevin

My wagons come from;
Hornby (Railroad and normal)
Triang Hornby (very few old models, most modified in some way)
Bachmann (Old blue & white boxes and later blue ones)
Airfix (better RTR models although they are quite old)
Dapol (Old stuff and newer ones on blue/silver boxes)
Mainline (Palitoy as was - only the later models)
Lima
Oxford Rail (cheap but good)
Parkside Dundas kits (now sold by Peco)
Ratio kits
Coopercraft kits
Airfix kit (brake vans in engineering service)

As far as the keyboard is concerned, most use "hot key" - normally CTRL + B makes bold, CTRL + I makes italics etc.  Most of us often hit a Hot Key by mistake so don't panic - it's not you!!!!

Barry



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 Posted: Wed Oct 20th, 2021 08:05 pm
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Hi Barry.  Thank you for your reply.   Do you mean that is my hamfisted approach has got me again? The trouble with keeping boxes, they get in the way. I replied to you instead of Keith hamfisted again. Since my various stays in hospital, I am so tired it is my bedtime now at2102 , and I don’t get up until 0800 approx. It is no wonder I don’t get anything done on my project. Best wishes Kevin



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 Posted: Wed Oct 20th, 2021 08:39 pm
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Colin W
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Thanks for checking, Barry,

my lines are straight so not a problem, and discovering I can use 40mm spacing means I can increase my storage by 16.6% by adding one further traverser line, all 916mm of it! A blessing that I don't have your issue of wiring points for storage lines.

"Monsoon" rains in L'puddle, surely not? Call that "weather?"

Now here in Melbourne we've had 200mm since the start of September and I heard they had a 160mm hail stone fall in North Queensland yesterday, which the BOM comfortingly advised had a terminal velocity "of well over 100km an hour". Now that's "weather"!



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 Posted: Thu Oct 21st, 2021 09:41 am
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Barry Miltenburg
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:shock: :shock: :shock:



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 Posted: Thu Oct 21st, 2021 10:09 am
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Just a thought about storage siding spacing - you might need to allow room to get your fingers down the sides of the stock in the event of a derailment or lifting a single wagon out ........ :roll:

If your rakes are genuinely "fixed" then it's only derailments you need to worry about and, as we all know, that doesn't happen on well laid track....... ;-)



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 Posted: Thu Oct 21st, 2021 03:48 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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Hi Peter

I can just about re-rail a wagon without disturbing the stock next to it if I'm careful but its not something I am hoping to have to do very often!  My only major derailment came when I found that I had inadvertently left a short piece of wire on the track - notwithstanding my vacuuming earlier. :cry:

What happened more often during the set-up was that my clumsy fingers knocked into something so I learned to create trains in the station area and then run them into storage.  I found out very quickly that trying to get a 2-6-2 or 4-6-0 on the rails in the storage area was asking for trouble.  Again, I got them running in the station and ran them round!

Barry



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 Posted: Thu Oct 21st, 2021 05:35 pm
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Hi Barry and Petermac.  I don’t imagine that it would happen on my plank, not until that is I build some scenery??hahaha . I have been thinking are snow ploughs there just for show or could they have a practical use, not as though a model Railway will be working in snow conditions, then again if the Dapol track cleaner could be propelled without derailing on the said object.   Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sat Oct 23rd, 2021 12:16 am
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Petermac wrote: Just a thought about storage siding spacing - you might need to allow room to get your fingers down the sides of the stock in the event of a derailment or lifting a single wagon out ........ :roll:

If your rakes are genuinely "fixed" then it's only derailments you need to worry about and, as we all know, that doesn't happen on well laid track....... ;-)

Peter,

Putting this in the context of my storage question, this highlights one big advantage for us Kadee users. Coupled stock will separate with a simple vertical lift, (lift and separate? :twisted:") something you can't do with tension lock types. Of course my track will in any case meet your laying requirements but the need to swap something out can still arise.



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 Posted: Mon Oct 25th, 2021 02:41 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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Hi all

Back from the Smoke and a relaxing hour in the shed just doing some more testing :lol: :lol:

The storage sidings are populated with freight trains at present and I ran every one to ensure that train lengths and clearances were fine.  Everything was OK except for the two Bachmann Class 24's. 

The Class 24 had rather prominent cab door vertical handrails and the Bachmann model faithfully replicates this but the Bachmann ones stick out somewhat.  As a result, they foul on other trains in storage.  Looking at prototype pictures, the handles are obvious but do not appear to stick out as far as Bachmann have them.   They are separate pieces added to the model rather than being moulded in so its easy to remove them (which I have done).  I can either reduce the length of the supports (which would remove the locating pips as well) and re-glue them or make replacements.

The former is favoured at present as the Bachmann offerings look good despite their being over deep.  The class 25's, despite having a similar body, had recessed door handrails so the problem does not arise.

Incidentally, the refund I got for the smoking Q6 was splashed on another D16 - this one with "British Railways" lettering.  I am keen to stretch the time period of the layout back from 1960-ish and this loco helps do that.  I will attach a suitable train of Gresley or Thomson stock or allocate the engine to the Inspection Saloon suggesting that it is ending its days on light turns.  I have a D16 already and its a lovely runner.  The new one is also lovely but running light has a turn of speed that would put a modern day Ferrarri to shame!!  Luckily, with a decent load, it calms down a bit.

My wife has one of her friends staying with us this week so I shall get lots of shed time.  I have a list of jobs in hand to complete the Trinity Square storage siding wiring and then connect it up to Middle Junction, get the Yarslow controllers wired in and start on the Master Cab Control Panel.

Bashing on........



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 Posted: Mon Oct 25th, 2021 06:48 pm
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Hi Barry.  Inspection Saloon you say. I traveled in one of them that had found itself on the Royal Scotsman. I bet that you were feeling home sick with all this lovely clean air for the day ? While on the subject of exchanging Loco’s? Do you purchase many secondhand “dogs “ or is it once bitten twice shy?  Best wishes Kevin        PS. HI Barry having left my iPad to make a cuppa, I returned to finish off reading your thread ??? List of jobs you say, I had one of them? And then along came the “ Pandemic”, which meant no more shows to go to for the time being, some time being.too longa time and I cannot find my list, but it is just the same as it was when you found the point/ turn out that had taken too much heat from my soldering iron.  Best wishes again Kevin 



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 Posted: Mon Oct 25th, 2021 07:58 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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Hi Kevin



I think I have posted this picture before - my conversion from a Hornby GWR Clerestory brake to an Inspection Saloon.

I have not bought a "dog" on eBay, basically because I only buy what I know and follow the golden rule - "If in doubt, don't".

Known faults that I know I can fix are OK but things described as "poor runner" are avoided.

Lists are useful to keep on focus.  Without a list, you either get nothing done or start a project that should be done after the other 25 things you really ought to do.  There is also a psychological buzz when you cross something off a list and especially when you get to the end of a list!!

Start with a simple job or a short list of simple jobs.  Everything you cross off is a "little win".  When I was at a low a few years ago, I got back on track with little wins - some of which were as simple as "sort out the toolbox".

Barry



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