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 Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2014 11:41 am
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xdford
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Hello Bob and Ed and Gary and whoever else is following this...
I have taken the motor system diagram from the top left hand corner of the schematic and shown what it looks like as a SCHEMATIC and translate it to something that resembles a DIAGRAMMATIC picture showing the actual view given the limitations of PAINT.
If you need further explanation, please contact and let's see if we can get the detail right as I know some of us are very much dragged kicking and screaming to the edge of wiring etc - if you want living proof of this contact Ken with his N scale layout as by his own admission was easy going in the end or look at his thread.
Anyway, hopefully this will show enough of a translation to help a few of you,
Cheers
Trevor



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 Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2014 11:56 am
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xdford
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Hi Gary
To intersperse your points ...
Quite interesting reading Trevor.
Thanks
I can now see how roads can be set by using the one stud, in the way you have wired it all together. 
I have known of using Diode Matrices etc for many years but never had the real need to apply them. Figuring out how BEST to install it is another issue
Very clever I might add ! :thumbs 
Thanks but as you may have gathered, it is not my actual idea, just an application. However thank you for your encouragement as you have given feedback on a few of my other posts which were nice. 
Must admit though, I had to study the diagrams for some time to work it all out... ;-);-)
I have news for you ... I had to study the diagrams for some time to work it all out too! And then I got it wrong or "over did" it ... oh well!!
Cheers, 
You too

Gary.

Trevor

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 Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2014 12:16 pm
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Marty
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Trevor,

Very clear, beautifully illustrated and nicely done.


I reckon you've missed a trick though. You could save two screws by activating the main and passing loop points at the top of the layout as pairs from a single screw in the middle.


Just a thought (and to let you know I'm following along ;-) )


Marty



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 Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2014 08:28 pm
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Bobby098
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well in my mind I got the idea of the stud and probe,  thanks for the drawings explaning how  Trevor  :doublethumbthey will be a great help to me . but now I thinking about the panel ? how to do one ? plus as you can see from picture 1 were the switches are . its not very wide if I do the panel the other way it be hard to work if I stand at the front if you get what I mean ?any ideas :hmm

cheers bob ......

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 Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2014 09:20 pm
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xdford
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Hi Bob,
A couple of questions
Those switches are to control your block sections of track? 
I presume you are using plywood for the switch panel?  What is the size of the panel you are using right now? We can fairly easily design one to the size you need. 
Is there any reason you have left so much space above the control panel when you could have extended your run?
Let us know...
Trevor

PS Marty, thanks for the feedback... appreciated mate!! 

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 Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2014 09:57 pm
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Bobby098
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the panal only 3" wide,  the switches were to control the points  (got off ebay ) but they are on/on switches I don't think they are good for points as they burn the motors out ? so the idea off doing a stud and probe seems better , As for the room above the panal im hoping to mount a gaugemaster panal controller there ? with help form this forum ......  bob ... 

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 Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2014 06:52 am
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xdford
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Hi Bob and others,
I have taken a hint from Ed and Marty and noting your switches, I have redesigned your control panel so that you will only need TWO contact points for a probe. Essentially you can use the switches you have by using them for your point motors pointed in the direction of the track. When you want to change the points, set the switch or switches, set them and then touch your probe. The top group are set as a group of three while the bottom ones are set as a group of four which the PECO CDU should be able to handle
And Ed, Gary and Marty ... NO DIODES!!!!
Cheers and Hope this helps
Trevor




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 Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2014 07:30 am
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Sol
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Trevor, instead of the probe screws- a pushbutton.

I also doubt whether the Peco CDU has enough to do 4 solenoids at the same time.
It would be better to get one of these http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GMC-CDU&style=main&strType=&Mcode=Gaugemaster+CDU

or the unit here http://microminiatures.co.uk/acatalog/CDU.html at £12.95



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 Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2014 08:34 am
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Great tutorial Trevor.This will help all who wrestle with point motors and stud and probe systems and wireing these jobs.
Maybe your tutorial/diagrams could be stickied in the appropiate how to thread as well.
Cheers,
Derek.

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 Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2014 10:25 am
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xdford
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Sol wrote: Trevor, instead of the probe screws- a pushbutton.

I also doubt whether the Peco CDU has enough to do 4 solenoids at the same time.
It would be better to get one of these http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GMC-CDU&style=main&strType=&Mcode=Gaugemaster+CDU

or the unit here http://microminiatures.co.uk/acatalog/CDU.html at £12.95


Hi Ron,  I have no direct experience with the CDU but the problem is fairly easily solved. For the top station use two contacts - one for the left hand set of points and another probe screw for the right hand one and two also for the bottom group. Split the wiring so that each contact is only dealing with two points
I have modified the diagram yet again
Hope this helps

Trevor




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 Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2014 10:58 am
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Ken
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Trevor, you really are a wiz!!!    (And I speak from experience!). :)

Ken



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 Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2014 11:34 am
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xdford
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For the control panel itself, I have scaled the diagram so that the switches which are 12 x 11 mm and the cheesehead screws are shown as though  the board is semi translucent... The grid is scaled to 3 inches squared and the switches are close to proportion
Hope it is useful,
Regards
Trevor
Trevor

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 Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2014 11:39 am
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xdford
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And again, I correct myself ... Ken does this remind you of thousands of electrons being shuffled 10,000 miles at a time then being scrubbed ;-) ... Thanks for the compliment mate!
Trevor





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 Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2014 01:26 pm
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Bobby098
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cheers trevor , are the switches I have got which are on/on ones are they ok :???: because I read that cause they are always on they burn the motors out ? sorry for being thick :oops:  cheers bob

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 Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2014 08:28 pm
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xdford
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Hi Bob,
The switches are OK as long as you are going to rely on the probe and contact or pushbutton as per Sol's suggestion in line, If you have followed my diagram, you cannot have current flowing through the motors all the time because the probe acts like a switch and therefor the power to the coil is off. The motors will burn out in a minute or less if the power is not off.]
In essence, the operation is


1. You decide which way the train is to run and have your on/on switch set to the direction you want the points to be

2. Touch your probe on the screw head momentarily OR press the pushbutton switch.
3. CDU discharges across two coils. One coil if it is already set will take a short burst overload but no harm will be done. You will hear the motor hum and the points move
4  Put your probe away to one side until the next time you want/need to change direction.


If you do want to use Push buttons, make sure that you buy the NORMALLY OPEN  or "NO" type of switch. There is a type called a normally closed or NC type and they have the same body


More later if necessary

 
Trevor

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 Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2014 07:27 pm
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Bobby098
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ok well the gaugmaster t1 as arrived with the GM41 and I have a panel control already so im going to build a control box at the end of the layout , get that up and running then I hope to start on the the points  control ..... cheers bob

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 Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2014 02:45 pm
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Bobby098
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easy they said my :Red Card  got the gaugemaster t1 have to put a gm41 thermal cut out  on it but how ? then on my gaugemaster control panel at the back  I have 4 white choc block or whatever they are call for 4 wires to go in .. 2 from the transformer and 2 from the track .but which wire goes in which block ?  I think im out off my depth with this ? any help please  cheers bob

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 Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2014 05:15 pm
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toto
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Hi Bob,

Can you put up a picture of the back of the controller where the connections are please. It should be quite simple. 2 wires from your transformer into the controller and two fom the controller to the track.

Fom memory there will be a white 2 core flex attached to your controller. I am pretty sure that they go to your transformer but I would need to see it again.

Cheers

Toto

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 Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2014 07:09 pm
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Bobby098
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hi trevor , this is not the one I had from you im going to use yours,   your right with the wires on yours and its straight forward but I got this from ebay , and I just wanted to know if I could wire it up right , but as you can tell I cant  .... heres the pic






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 Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2014 10:52 pm
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xdford
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Hello Bob,  I have never actually seen one of these but there are a few signs to make it wired up and correct, Thanks for showing both sides.
Looking from the rear, on the right hand side. there are 4 small diodes which I illustrated earlier for you with two green wires leading to them. Those Diodes are (or at least should be...) rectifiers to make AC current into DC current. 

Put your wires from your transformer - one each - into those two terminals, and the other two wires from your track into the other two. The direction will not matter yet



In simpler terms, looking left to right at your terminal block and numbering them 1 to 4

1   Out put - Either wire to your track2.  Out put - The other wire to your track3.  Input -  Either wire from your transformer4,  Input - The other wire from your transformer

The input to your Gaugemaster unit can be DC and no harm will be done if you have the wires reversed from your transformer as the Diodes are formed in a what is called a Bridge





If your train is not going in the direction you want relative to the direction switch on your throttle, simply reverse the wires shown as red and black,
Hope this helps 
Regards
Trevor

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