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Wizmacnz
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My online shop Model Railway Structures has now opened on Shapeways web site. http://www.shapeways.com/shops/modelrail


One of the first areas of product made available are various structures for making platform canopies.




Also a few bits of tiny furniture for house interiors.

Campaman
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I get a "This page can not be displayed" message

Sol
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and so do I.

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I know what it is, his link at the top is missing a /

it is http://www.shapeways.com/shops/modelrail

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So do I.

There's probably a typo in the link.

I always click on any I insert to make sure they work.    :thumbs

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Now it works.  :thumbs

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Some nice pieces there Peter but unfortunately the wrong scale for me.

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Got some quite nice pieces there Peter.

Wizmacnz
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Hmmn ..I tried to edit my link in the first post to correct my typo ... (shouldn't post so late at night)..... now it doesn't work at all.

 

 

Edit by Sol - it should be all fixed now Peter.

Last edited on Tue Mar 4th, 2014 09:28 pm by

col.stephens
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Would someone explain to me how this Shapeways works please?  How do you order?  Is it Shapeways who send you the goods, or the designer?  I think they are based in New Zealand.  Does that make the items bought prohibitively expensive to send to the U.K.? (Bearing in mind that customs duty might be charged on delivery if total value is over £18 and V.A.T. (tax) at 20% (?) will always be charged on delivery).

Terry

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Hi Terry
There is quite a bit of info on the Shapeways site on how it works and they probably explain it better than I can; however, here goes.

Shapeways are the manufacturer and distributor. They are a 3D printing bureau and currently print in the USA and Holland. You are buying the products from them. 

I design my products and upload a computer file to their website. A cost for the item is automatically generated by them and is built up of a fixed per item price and then a price based on the volume of material that needs to be printed. On top of that I then add a small designers margin (somewhere around 10%, but I round it to avoid really funny prices).  

When you place an order with Shapeways the items ordered are specifically printed for you and then couriered by them to you.

The delivery cost is a fixed price regardless of how many items you purchase. The current cost of delivery for people from the UK is US$ 9.50.  

All prices are exclusive of VAT or any other sales taxes.  I guess that from the UK you therefore have to add 20% VAT as you would for anything else that you purchase within the EU. In New Zealand VAT is not charged on imported goods costing less than NZ$400, so if I buy something from Hattons for example I can buy it at 20% less than you can. The same is true for Shapeways.

I hope this clarifies things.

Last edited on Thu Mar 6th, 2014 01:24 am by Wizmacnz

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Thanks Peter.  Very useful to know.

Terry

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I apologise for the fact that this post is cut and pasted from a post on another nameless forum. This forum is my spiritual home and where my layout thread resides, but I'm just so busy at present that I can't spend the time to post a new version here... (well actually I suppose this bit is new).

Today being Saturday, it's the first real chance I have had to put some of my recently arrived Shapeways pieces together. (and take some photographs)


I'm sure I'm a much better designer than I am a builder. I'm in fact one of those modelers that ends up with his fingers glued to the model. The theory is that if I can put this stuff together then anyone can. You'll also soon realise that I'm not much of a photographer either.


 I've assembled the pieces straight as they arrive from the factory so you can see the level of finish that is achieved. I've seen recommendations to use a coffee stirrer to polish the surface or even fine wet and dry. My first assembly though I intend to see what can be achieved with it "as is". I've used thick super glue as the adhesive.


Today I put together a number of the platform canopy components to make a short section of canopy. ( I quickly knocked together a piece of platform to stick it on.)


I made a hole in the card platform with an awl to place the first column.




Then made a hole for the second column, using a spine truss  to check the spacing, and glued the truss to the two columns.




Then glued on a cantilevered end truss




You could stop using 3D printed parts at this point and complete the canopy using card or plasticard, however, if you continue down the 3D printed route, the next step is to add the intermediate trusses.




Although I've photographed them in place, if you are using the glazed roof sections it is actually easier to glue the truss to the roof sections first (they fit neatly between the rooflight frames). This way you can be sure that you have got the trusses spaced accurately. Accurate spacing is not critical if you are not using glazed roofing.


 
The glazed roof panel I selected to use has a representation of a zinc or mineral fibre roof on the upper surface.  Like this one (but with more rooflights).










And has a representation of timber boarding on the interior face.








Ironically the simplest roof panels to design have no rooflights, but as they use more material in production they cost the most.










A small section of plain roof fills in to the end of the cantilever truss. The trusses and roof section sizes are matched so no cutting to length is required.


 

The end gable boarding and valances have yet to arrive from Shapeways.  The first design of valance was rejected by Shapeways because the detail was too fine. Strangely the gable boarding which had the same board dimensions etc, passed through and was printed. Both have been redesigned with wider boards and should be with me on Monday. In the meantime I've stuck the old version onto the end gable.










Finally a couple of pictures of the canopy from low level. All still in white from the factory finish. I'm sure that when painted and lightly weathered the gleaming white will be eliminated and more of the detail will be apparent. I think painting is a job for next Saturday (if the lawns don't grow).


















Last edited on Sat Mar 8th, 2014 06:19 am by Wizmacnz

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They look really good Peter although given the number I'd need, I suspect they'll be a bit too pricey for me by the time shipping, duty and VAT are added.............:roll::roll::roll:

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Hi Peter
The main problem with 3D printing at the moment is the cost charged by the 3D printing bureaus.  I guess if you are within the EU there is no avoiding the dreaded VAT. Postage and packing is a fixed charge of US$9.50 to EU countries , unless you are from a BENELUX  country when it is $6.50.  This is less significant on a larger order, but I guess would put you off buying a single $2 item.

I've tried to focus initially on items that either can't be made by an "average" modeler or are cost competitive with laser cut or castings. The columns and trusses fit this criteria. The roofing sheets have much more material and could be made in a traditional card or plastic manner. I've included them for "completeness" of the system and for modelers who put a cost value on their time (most don't) or those that want a realistic building but would rather be playing trains or focusing their time on another aspect of the hobby. 

As the technology develops and becomes cheaper the decision to make traditionally or print will swing ever more in the direction of 3D print. For example, I know you were making the scalescenes main roof kit. The large arches on that would take me a long while to cut and put together, whereas I could draw them and print them on my home printer, where the cost of material is already low. It wouldn't be commercially viable though to do that on Shapeways. However a curved lattice truss would look more prototypical, use less material, probably making it Shapeways viable and deliver something that a scratchbuilder would take hours and hours to make.

I'm convinced that there will come a point when home printers will become common and the volume of material in an object is no longer a driving factor. When I home print the raw material cost is about 35 pounds a kilo, and you can create an awful lot of product with a kilo of plastic.

So when people can pop down to the high street store and buy a cheap 3d printer they are going to need things to print. At that time I intend to be the provider of downloadable model railway products. The Scalescenes of plastic.

At the moment I am still getting to grips with the technology and the commercial realities of the technology. The items that I model that I think may be "economic" are placed on Shapeways, those that even I can see would be perceived as "too pricey" are held back towards a time when the technology and cost have moved on. I have a cunning system to build platforms and platform edges for example, but it is unsellable at 40 pounds a foot (Shapeways price), but is fine for me to print at home at about 2 pounds a foot. It takes about 3 hours to print, which is no problem to me because I don't have to sit and watch it, but renders it non viable to print and sell to a third party.

Anyway... I didn't intend to ramble on... but I did wan't to take the opportunity to give some background on costs. I'm in this for the "long haul" and certainly don't expect to make any money out of this for several years.

Last edited on Sat Mar 8th, 2014 09:58 pm by Wizmacnz

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Hi Peter

I don't know if this will help, or not - but I have a 3D printer nearby to my home here in South Oz.

http://www.3Dprintsa.com.au

He makes a small charge to do the CAD and then a moderate charge per unit.

The cost is comparable to buying off the net.

Here is an example . . .



He made these two little servo brackets for me.  He charged A$15.00 to draw it and A$5.50 each to make them.

He has a scanner, but prefers to draw them when he's making articles with close tolerances.

There might be someone in NZ who could do the same for you?

Cheers

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I understand what you're saying Peter. ;-)  Like all "new" technology, prices are initially high because a) the market is limited to those who'll "give it a whirl" and b) there's not much competition so those at the forefront can have a field day.

I'd absolutely agree that prices will come down as demand increases and the initial capital investment costs are spread over a larger product base.  I shudder to think what the likes of Shapeways must have invested in machinery and currently, it's all front line stuff.

As demand increases, suppliers will come onto the market, machines will become faster and therefore, more "time efficient" - we all know time costs and probably, in the case of 3D printing, more than the plastic does.  I wonder how long it takes Shapeways to print one of your columns and what their hourly rate is for the printer...........:roll::roll:

I'll certainly be keeping an eye on your range.  Interesting that delivery to a Benelux country is cheaper than to the rest of Europe - I wonder why .......:hmm

Wizmacnz
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Hi Max

Thanks for the info on your local 3D printing company. That is an example of how 3D printing is becoming more accessible to everyone. There are comparable 3D printing people here in NZ. 

I'm having a web-site built that will widen the options from purely the Shapeways route. The idea would be purchase printed item(s) from Shapeways,  or download an electronic copy and print it yourself or take it to a local printer and have them print it for you.

I don't really want to get into  printing objects for sale myself. I think NZ is too far from the major markets to provide reasonable delivery costs. It would also give me a lot of work dealing with orders, packing, posting etc when I really want to spend my efforts designing or even working on my own layout. I'm trying to establish something where my day to day involvement becomes non-critical and I can just sit back and watch the dollars trickle in.

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Wizmacnz wrote: ........................................................................I'm trying to establish something where my day to day involvement becomes non-critical and I can just sit back and watch the dollars trickle in.
Give me a shout when you find it Peter ....................:mutley:mutley:cheers:cheers

Wizmacnz
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Petermac wrote: Give me a shout when you find it Peter ....................:mutley:mutley:cheers:cheers

Well I don't seem to have found it yet :cry: :cry:

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Each of my products is scientifically tested prior to being released to the market.





Actually I was quite surprised how strong it is. I will probably remodel this when I find someone who wants a 21st century train shed roof. This first print was really just an experiment.



Here it is sitting on my keyboard so that you can get some idea of its scale / size.

Wizmacnz
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Here is my 3d printed privy after slapping on a bit of paint and some brick paper.


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Nearly ready for the market is my interpretation of the footbridge at Kirby in Furness.  It now passes all the Shapeway pre-production printability tests. Once I am happy that the printed item prints as expected it will go on sale at around the 19 pounds mark (plus postage and VAT for those that have to pay it).


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Fantastic models!

Terry

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My Chimney stack experiment has arrived from Shapeways and I was pleasantly surprised with the result. I'd modelled the bricks and mortar courses at true scale, which means that the mortar was only 0.16 of a mm wide. I really didn't expect the printer to make much of a texture. I have quickly slapped some paint on it and placed it on a piece of paper on my desk to take a picture.




As you can see, you can definitely make out bricks.

Here it is balanced on the ridge of a Metcalfe corner shop I made (very badly) a few years ago, which gives you some idea of the size.  Now that I know that it works I will knock up a few variations and some larger ones (when I get time).






I've also released it on Shapeways at 7mm to the foot scale.

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The bridge looks superb and very finely detailed. Will it be robust enough to stand up to a bit of handling?

Bob

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Hi Bob
The prototype is under production at Shapeways and should be with me first week in April. However, the material it is printed in is strong and not at all brittle. I would expect it to be throw across the room tough. When I get my hands on the first print I'll give it the throw across the room test.

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I've splashed some paint on my platform canopy.

  I would recommend painting the components before assembly and then touching up as necessary afterwards. This was fully assembled prior to painting and it was a bit of a fiddle.













I have now created some bulk packs on Shapeways, which improves the cost per item. Anyone contemplating creating lots of canopy PM me and I will see if we can tailor the bulk packs to suit your needs.

Last edited on Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 03:44 am by Wizmacnz

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That looks excellent Peter - really impressive. :thumbs:thumbs

Is it strong ?  I'm wondering how you've fixed the columns to the platform surface .......there's quite a lot of "top hamper" for a single lateral support :hmm


I'll have a look at Shapeways and see what your bulk discount looks like ...................:roll::roll::roll:

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I've had a look and the bulk prices are looking more attractive by the minute .........now where did I put my calculator ? :thumbs

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Hi Peter

The columns have a 1mm plastic pin below the base that I pushed into a hole that made in the platform with an awl. 

I haven't glued it in yet and it has become a bit wobbly with me taking it in and out so that I could paint it. I think it will be pretty strong  though when glued to a platform. 

The plastic itself is a form of Nylon and not brittle so it will take a few knocks and a bit of rough handling.

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I have now saved the shop in my internet, as you are producing some items that will be fantastic for me as I progress with my layout. Keep up the good work. Hopefully won't be to expensive to post to the uk.

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Hi Jimmy
It's actually printed in Holland. The postage and packing is a flat US$9.50 rate per order regardless of whether you buy a truck load or a match stick. I have to pay $US19.50 per order to have it delivered to New Zealand, but I have to say delivery is fast, track and traced so I know exactly where it is at any time and very well packed in little cardboard boxes with lots of bubble wrap and those plastic bag things full of air.

Last edited on Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 09:43 am by Wizmacnz

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I will build up a order list before I order then the more the cheaper!

Keep designing especially furniture as I detail the inside of all my buildings do the table and sofas is on my list to order!

Wizmacnz
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jimmy styles wrote: I will build up a order list before I order then the more the cheaper!

Keep designing especially furniture as I detail the inside of all my buildings do the table and sofas is on my list to order!


I thought it was only me that was interested in the furniture. It was one of the first things that I made to place inside a building on my layout. I was planning on some kitchen stuff next in that line.

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Wizmacnz wrote:
jimmy styles wrote: I will build up a order list before I order then the more the cheaper!

Keep designing especially furniture as I detail the inside of all my buildings do the table and sofas is on my list to order!


I thought it was only me that was interested in the furniture. It was one of the first things that I made to place inside a building on my layout. I was planning on some kitchen stuff next in that line.





Sounds like a good idea. Have you thought about, fireplaces and possibility a grandfather clock bet they would look great with this level of detail.

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Hi Jimmy


Here is the first rough of a fireplace. I need to model the whole chimney breast if I create something close to realistic depth in the grate. 




I think the grandfather clock idea will have to wait for higher resolution printers. I could model the shape of the clock leaving it for someone to paint on the detail, but then Scalescenes do a clock that is rectangular, but would probably look better than a hand painted printed clock.


Last edited on Mon Mar 24th, 2014 11:14 am by Wizmacnz

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Or you could look here:

http://www.sankeyscenics.co.uk/#/oo-gauge-4mm-page-4/4551913714

Terry

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Funny you should say that Terry, because I had thought I could probably model a grandfather clock with a closed case (no weights or pendulum on show) and just model a circular face for a printed clock face to be applied.


Does anyone have a copy of that sheet so I could know what diameter the clock faces are? 

Last edited on Wed Mar 26th, 2014 10:37 am by Wizmacnz

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Latest addition are 3D printed windows.



This is in the shop in one size only at present. 900 wide x 1200 high (approx 12 x 16mm).  But I can make them any size you want. It's a parametric model so it's just a two minute job to type in the size required and upload it to Shapeways.  If anyone is interested and wants any particular sizes just let me know. 

This item really benefits from Shapeways bulk discounting. 1 off is US$2.75, bulk pack of 10 is US$6.00. Actually I think its more that single small items are penalised by the systems pricing structure.

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For those into Facebook, thanks to the technical expertise of my son who came to dinner last night, I now have a special Facebook page at

 https://www.facebook.com/modelrailwaystructures



This will have latest updates on the shop, products under development news and give people a chance to provide feedback on what they would like for future products.  I also welcome comments there on the likes dislikes of the product range.

Last edited on Wed Mar 26th, 2014 10:58 am by Wizmacnz

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I have released 14 different types of 3D printed doors today to suit 4mm  scale.
 

 
These can be made to suit any size you want. Each type is illustrated  at the shop as a group of four doors, 2000mm high by 760mm, 810mm, 900mm and 1000mm wide (or two of these when double doors). I have just grouped them like this  to give an indication of the cost when you buy 4 doors of that type. I will make up individual sets on a customer by customer basis. For example a small terraced house might require a 900mm front door and 5 or 6 760mm internal doors and a 810 back door. 




As the computer models are parametric it is easy to adjust any size to suit.




 
The installation method is as per the windows. Cut a hole in the card or plastic wall and glue the door into the opening using the architrave flange on the printed door to hold it in place.
 

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It seems that anything I can print in 4mm scale using Shapeways White Strong and Flexible material can also be printed at 1:148 using their Frosted Ultra Detail material. The extra cost of that material is off-set by the smaller volume of material that has to be printed. I'm just being a bit cautious putting everything on at that scale because the material is not flexible and the smaller cross sections could be a bit brittle. Once I have a couple of printed prototypes I'll be able to gauge what will work and what wont. 

Already up and available for purchase though are the chimney stacks and the doors. The lattice footbridge I'm waiting for a printed prototype, but if all is OK should retail for around £9.50.

Last edited on Sat Mar 29th, 2014 06:13 am by Wizmacnz

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Peter, is that figure of £9.50 correct, because in an earlier post you mentioned about £19?

Terry

Update - I think I have twigged.  This is for 2mm scale.  What's the cost of one in 4mm scale?

Last edited on Sat Mar 29th, 2014 08:13 am by col.stephens

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col.stephens wrote: Peter, is that figure of £9.50 correct, because in an earlier post you mentioned about £19?

Terry

Update - I think I have twigged.  This is for 2mm scale.  What's the cost of one in 4mm scale?


Unless I have to add some more plastic once I have the prototype in my hand £19.25 plus VAT if you are buying from within the EU plus postage and packing.

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I've done a bit more brick laying and added three more chimney stack types to the range. These can be printed in anything from N scale upwards.




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Peter,
Terrific work.
How easy is it to paint?
Does it need an undercoat?
Acrylics?
Enamels?
Reason I ask is that I had read that the plastic used in the 3D printing process didn't take paint to well, that is for the plastics used in the 3D home printer?
cheersMartin

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Hi Marty
I've being using Phoenix general purpose primer on the Shapeways White Strong and Flexible and it works fine. I painted the cream colour on my canopy structures using a dulux test pot.  I haven't painted any of the Frosted Detail Plastic yet (required for printing at N scale). It's an acrylic polymer and according to Shapeways can be painted with acrylics or enamels. There are are plenty of painted model rail examples at Shapeways  using this material. They do use wax as a support material during printing, but this is removed prior to leaving the factory.

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Now just stop it Peter - no sooner do I see something I need, than you post yet another excellent product. :cry:

Are you trying to empty my bank account ? This is worse than being hacked !!!

Canopies, footbridge, chimneys - all could find an excellent home on Maxmill.  If you need a European test-bed ..................:roll::roll::roll:;-)

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Hi Peter
I'd love to empty your bank account. If only to prove to my Wife that I didn't just buy a 3D printer because I wanted a new toy. 

If you lived just round the corner I'd certainly drop of the odd prototype item that would never have a place on my layout. It would be a shame to see them sit around in an old box unused.

On the subject of emptying bank accounts, I quickly knocked up a model cooling tower today at the largest size that I thought would fit in a Shapeways printer. It's about 350mm high or about 90 feet high in 4mm scale. A real baby cooling tower. Shapeways cost to print ....US$1245. Not likely to be a big seller I think.

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The prototype 4mm scale version of the footbridge has arrived with me and after a minor tweak has now been released for purchase.




The OO version is printed in Shapeways White Strong and Flexible material. The bridge certainly is that - definitely passes the throw across the room test.

The surface finish ex factory will need a little light sanding to areas that you want smooth when painted if you want it to look right in close up photography. I would suggest handrails and columns only ... the steps and landings would be rough anyway.
Here is a cruel close up showing the surface finish ex factory magnified.




The N scale model is made of a different material and does not have the same visible grain. 

I have to say though that the naked eye doesn't see the grain texture unless your eye is about 3 inches away from the surface.

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That look good Peter - I'll have a look at it on Shapeways. :thumbs

Maybe it says on their site but does it come in bits, and if so, how many,  or ready to plonk ?

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Hi Peter
It's ready to plonk. You might want to add some smoke deflectors. There weren't any on the photo's of the prototype, but they have probably been removed.

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Thanks for the comments on painting.
That footbridge has come out really well.
cheersMarty

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Hi Marty

On checking the spray can of primer I was using I see now it was Floquil general purpose primer not Phoenix. I'm now using Alclad primer because the spray cans were working out pretty expensive and lots of waste paint overspray. So I'm now using a bottle and airbrush, much cheaper and more efficient.

Peter

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First finishing coat on the 4mm scale footbridge.



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Looks brilliant! :thumbs

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Very, very nice Peter. :thumbs

I can certainly see one of those winging it's way to France. :roll:

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And one here to Kent.

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I've had a few questions about painting my objects, and as it is a slightly different material from the traditional card or plastic I thought I would give a couple of quick pointers.


Most of my things are printed in a material that Shapeways call "White Strong and Flexible". It consists of a fine nylon powder that is fused together with a laser. It creates a material that is a bit like a sand castle, but with very very tiny grains of sand. (You can see the finish in the close up  on one of the postings above.) The material is slightly porous, meaning any paint forms a good bond with the raw material. It's also possible to dye the product, although I haven't tried this.


The painted finish will have a slight grainy finish to it unless it is sanded smooth. In many cases the grain wont matter or even be visible from a normal viewing distance. But if you are intending to take close up photographs, or view with your eyes from very close to the model, the areas that you want to appear smooth will need some additional attention. Where I want a smooth finish, I lightly sand the material with fine wet and dry paper before applying a primer. I then also sand down after priming and after each coat of paint until the surface achieves the degree of smoothness that I am happy with.


On the footbridge I'm painting at the moment I have lightly sanded the handrails and columns, but left the lattice work and steps "au naturelle". When I've finished I'll post one of those cruel camera close-ups so that you can see the differences in the surface finish.


In general the material is very easy to work with. Painted canopy pictures I posted earlier in this thread were painted with no surface preparation. The cream was brush applied direct to the plastic with no primer and consisted of Dulux test pot house paint. 


There is also useful information on painting this material (complete with video tutorial) at https://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/painting3dprintedsls

Last edited on Sun Apr 6th, 2014 03:30 am by Wizmacnz

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I promised a cruel close up picture of the surface finish after light sanding and then painting the "white strong and flexible" material that the OO gauge footbridge is made from.




The handrail  and posts have been sanded, the steps have not.  Have to say though the steps look fine to the naked eye, but probably could do with a tidy up for close-up photography.

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The "N" scale footbridge prototype has arrived, so I've painted it to match its' big brother. The smaller scale bridge is made from what they call FUD (frosted ultra detail). This is more brittle than the "white and flexible" but can print to higher levels of detail. It has a much smoother finish. 

Painting this material is a bit trickier than painting the"white and flexible" Basically it comes down to cleaning off any wax residue from the printing process before painting.  There are a few threads on "another forum" on painting this. I recommend washing it with warm water and soap and sticking to acrylic paints.
This is a picture of big brother "OO" and little brother "N".




 The "N" scale footbridge is now on sale at $US16.50 (about £9.90) + postage and packing, plus the dreaded VAT if you are within the EU. 

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I also put some paint on one of my larger chimney stacks.


The picture shows how they look ex-factory, primed and with some colour added. It's brown brick because that was the paint I had to hand.




The picture is taken under directional lighting which emphasis the brick texture. The factory finish of the "white and flexible" lends itself to the brick texture, so I have carried out no prep work other than the primer.



Here it is perched on top of a Metcalfe corner shop, which shows two things: 1 - the 3d printed chimney looks more believable than the metcalfe card chimneys and, 2 - I am hopeless at putting together card kits (that's why I have taken to printing things).  


Actually I think it's been knocked around a bit. Surely I can't have been that bad. 

Last edited on Tue Apr 15th, 2014 11:09 am by Wizmacnz

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Love those footbridges. :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

Terry

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Hi Peter, the chimney stacks look really good. The footbridges really are the business. Keep up the good work.:thumbs

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I haven't posted much recently because I've been busy with a number of different projects on the go.

Coming soon is something new in chimney pots.



The pots are printed attached to the mortar haunching so that they can be glued straight onto the top of a card built chimney stack. It takes away the fiddle of trying to stick individual pots onto the chimney. The sets of pots will be sold in sets to suit particular card kit models, but could also be handy for the scratchbuilder. The range will be avaliable for both OO and N scales.


The range of doors and windows is also being updated to provide "off the shelf" packs of the most common sizes.





The front door with fanlight above,  is available now in OO scale in packs of 10 (5 left hand, 5 right hand) for around £5.75 for the pack.

Also coming soon will be windows, doors and chimney pots in sets to suit card kit models.




Platform canopies will soon have additions to the range.


I've also grouped components for canopies so that they can be ordered as a complete set to make it both easier to order and also to minimise production costs.




I've also been very busy with this one, that should be available early in 2016 in 12" to the foot scale.



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Thanks for the update Peter. I for one will be watching with interest on these, specially the chimneys, doors and windows. Looking good. 

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Appreciate the "how to" on painting Peter, I think I'm going to have to have a go at something.

What's the span of the N scale foot bridge? It looks tremendous.

Marty

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Hi Marty


Here are the dimensions of the footbridge model. I model most things full size and then scale it for printing. In the case of the N scale footbridge it is printed at 1/148 to suit UK N scale.




Let me know if the size doesn't suit. I could always tweak the model. If it's wrong for you, it's probably wrong for others too.


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Well the test print of windows,  exterior doors and chimney pots for the Scalescenes Small Terraced Houses kit  arrived today. I of course got one of the window sizes wrong, but here are the ones that fit push fitted into one of the exterior walls.  I'll glaze and paint them, when I get the correct size additional windows.




I worked out what I had done wrong (I included the wrong window in the set), and have now made the correction. The 3d printed set (illustrated) can be purchased from the link below (about £6.50).




https://www.shapeways.com/model/1949433/t022-scalescenes-3d-components-4mm-scale.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6


I will be adding more of these complete sets of 3D components for scalescenes. If anyone has a particular interest in adding them to a scalescenes kit, let me know which one and I'll try and push it up the priority list.

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They look smart Peter. :thumbs

How will you glaze them ?

I plan to start the kit shortly so they'll be ideal. :cheers

Also, once I'm ready, one of the footbridges will be winging it's way to S.W. France for my through station. ;-)

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Hi Peter

I've been so busy, I've only got around to glazing one window. I used two pieces of acetate, one for the lower sash and one for the upper. I used canopy cement to hold them in place, but probably a dab of super glue would do it. I think when I go into glazing production on my own layout I'll come up with some sort of jig to cut the acetate so I don't have to keep measuring and marking up.

There is a rebate on the inside of the window which allows a small amount of tolerance for wonky cutting, but the glass to the top sash has to sit onto the top of the middle rail pretty accurately because there is no room for a rebate there. (I'm making it sound harder than it was.)

I  would be honoured to see one of my footbridges on your layout. I know a couple have been bought, but I have no idea where they have gone.

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I set  the tapered factory chimney available for people to purchase on Shapeways in both N and OO scale. You never know someone might need one
.

Having worked out a technique for modelling brickwork on a curve and slope it is something I will be coming back to at some stage. I'm particularly thinking about bottle ovens.

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I've modeled a new type of window (mainly because I need the type for a building on my own layout). This window  type has an external surround as sometimes seen on Georgian/Neo-georgian buildings. This window is installed from the outside with a touch of glue to the surround.  For bodgey modelers the surround will hide minor inaccuracies in the cutting of the opening. It can also be retro-fitted into an opening (as I intend to do).




Like all my windows, I can quickly re-size and batch in quantities to suit the customers requirements.

A pack of 20 costs around £9


Last edited on Wed Jun 4th, 2014 01:10 pm by Wizmacnz

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That's very useful Peter. :thumbs

I have a hankering for a small row of Georgian terraces like these from Kingsway Models.   I've heard they're not great kits so a little help window-wise might be good -
 






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Petermac wrote: That's very useful Peter. :thumbs

I have a hankering for a small row of Georgian terraces like these from Kingsway Models.   I've heard they're not great kits so a little help window-wise might be good -
 









I emailed them to see if they would tell me what size the window openings were. So far no reply.

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I decided to make it even easier to build my platform canopies, by printing fully assembled sections.

You take a couple of section 1's (as picture below)



 

Take  a section 2 (as picture below) and span between the section 1's. Repeat as many times as you want.








 then add a section 3 at the end.




The end sections are available in right hand and left hand to suit the ribbing on the roof.


The sections are available in both OO and N scale.


The OO platform sections are also available without the roofing so you can fit your own card or plasticard roof. (The roofless sections are significantly cheaper, but I have to say the printed roof is pretty good.)





Final check printing is underway and all being well the items will shortly be available for purchase.

Of course you can still do your own thing and buy individual columns, trusses, valance and roof sections.



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The Chimney Pots for Scalescenes kits have met with John Wiffen's approval and the first sets are now available on Shapeways for purchase. 


Last edited on Wed Jul 2nd, 2014 07:50 pm by Wizmacnz

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Hi Peter,has John authorised the use of his photo?.It shouldn't be a problem as he is a member on here but better to be safe than sorry.

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Very good point Alan. I'll edit and take the picture down until I have his OK.

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Well John is happy for me to use his photo, so here it is back again.





The pots are printed already attached to the mortar haunching made to the right size to suit the kit, so all you have to do is paint and glue the rectangular haunching to the top of the chimney stack.


The picture is of Johns Row of Cottages kit T019. The pots are available at the link below. 


https://www.shapeways.com/model/1936116/t019-ss-chimney-pots-4mm.html?modelId=1936116&materialId=6


Sets of pots for a few Scalescenes are already available, with the intention of extending to cover the complete range of Scalescenes chimneys.

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Thanks for taking the trouble Peter and they do look nice,better than twisting the paper round the drill bit alternative.

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Some great looking developments Peter. :thumbs:thumbs

Once I get back into "modelling mode" - after the summer season - I'll be ordering some of those plus a footbridge.  There's not much point in my doing so now because my modelling time is about as long as it takes me to log on here .............

I will, in the meantime, order one of those georgian house kits I showed earlier so I can let you have window dimensions ................

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A good pick me up for me from a bout of winter flu; a nice review of my lattice footbridges in the latest edition of Model Rail magazine out this week.

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While I was in my sick bed a package of my latest test prints arrived from Shapeways.


Here are some photo's of the test prints of the platform canopy sections, where I've printed columns, trusses and roof all as one printed object. (as described in my thread above.)












The two sections fit together as intended (just pushed together for the picture.. not glued). You just keep alternating them until you get to the required length of canopy.





When you get to the end you stick on a short cantilever section.




Like this.




This is a test print without roof (which is an option).



Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2014 10:53 am by Wizmacnz

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They look really good Peter. :thumbs

I'll have a look at the price on Shapeways but I can see those being quite popular.

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Cracking when I get that far I may have to invest

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Those canopies (and all the other stuff) look lovely.  Are they any particular railway?  You might have said but I didn't see it mentioned earlier.

John

 

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Brossard wrote: Those canopies (and all the other stuff) look lovely.  Are they any particular railway?  You might have said but I didn't see it mentioned earlier.

John

 

Hi John
The canopies were originally based loosely on Hebdon Bridge Station, West Yorkshire but they have evolved to be a little bit more generic as modelling developed. Although there is a lot more detail and structure than is evident in most off the shelf or kit based platform canopies there has still been a necessity to simplify to suit the printing limitations. 

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Petermac wrote: They look really good Peter. :thumbs

I'll have a look at the price on Shapeways but I can see those being quite popular.

I've offered them for sale with and without roof material to try and provide a lower cost entry point, but I guess price is going to be an issue by comparison with the superquicks and metcalfes of this world. It's one of the idiosyncrasies of railway modelling that many people will pay big money for new locomotives and will be concerned about whether there are exactly the correct number of rivets on the tender, but will not be concerned that their footbridges are twice the height they are supposed to be or that their lineside buildings look like cheap cardboard kits. Of course there also excellent scratchbuilders out there and some cardboard kits are truly excellent if made carefully (I include Scalescenes in the latter category). 

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I'd agree 100% with your sentiments Peter. :thumbs

On the very odd occasion I go to an exhibition, I might see some fantastic detail in trackwork, scenery or rolling stock, all to be ruined by either a "generic" cardboard box pretending to be a building or, to me even more disappointing, trains never dropping below a scale 90 m.p.h.

I do wonder what buyers would use for the roof if they were not to buy your "package".  I think, having looked at the alternatives, yours probably isn't badly priced - it's not cheap but then quality never is ...............;-)  Certainly one or two will find their way to Maxmill. :cheers

Speaking of price, earlier, I said I was going to order a Georgian town house kit and ask about running some windows off.  I looked at the kit again and, unfortunately,  decided against it.  At £11 ("ex works") for what, I have read, is a fairly "standard" quality product, it seems expensive.  I may have a re-think if I can't come up with anything else but that's what I mean about cost vs quality.

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Thanks for the info Peter.  I think Metcalfe and Superquik are great for those starting out and to learn the trade as it were.  They can be made to look quite attractive.  They're also a good entry point for scratch building.  When I built my exhibition layout I started with these just to get going, but later rebuilt the buildings in plastic. 

I too lose patience with layouts where the builders have obviously little interest in the buildings.  Card kits are fine but I think they do take a hammering on the show circuit and maintenance is very important.  It's an idiosyncrasy of mine that when I see a passenger train at a show, I look to see if there are flexible gangways.  If there aren't I tend to walk away.

That Georgian house looks good in the picture, but I haven't any experience of Kingsway, so I don't know if the price is warranted.

John

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John ...I have a few Metcalfes and Superquiks on my layout so I shouldn't be so quick to condemn.  I guess though it was my dissatisfaction with them and my lack of skill in modelling construction that set me off down the 3D printing line.


Peter ...I thought it would be relatively easy to make a solid roof in plasticard or card, either painted or with a Scalescenes or similar textured paper applied. One of the reasons why I made the roof in the fully printed canopy sections half glazed, is to reduce the volume of material to be printed to keep the cost lower.

With regard to the Georgian town houses... I also received in my shapeways package a bundle of windows with surrounds that I'm going to use on a building on my own layout. Hopefully I am going to retrofit them onto the outside of the window openings, to replace some very bad acetate and cut sticky label windows that I made for the building some years ago.

These were the ones I was going to adapt to suit the Kingsway Models kit.









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They look good too Peter.  They's look even better in a Georgian terrace.  :thumbs

Having searched, without luck, for a drawing of the Kingsway type Georgian house, I may just have a re-think.

I e-mailed them to ask about postage to France and can get 2 x £11 kits delivered here for just a tad under £30 (expensive postage but cheaper for 2 kits than for 1). 

As I said, I have no idea what the kits are like and their site, quite frankly, doesn't do them any favours regarding "quality" looks of the finished article but it is a nice building and would sit nicely in my station square.

If I got a couple, I could then get the necessary measurements ......................:hmm:hmm

Maybe I'll have a look at some of their other stuff - 1 Georgian terrace plus a shop - they do a rather nice looking "Burton's the Tailor".

Don't go away just yet ..........................;-)

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Agree Peter W, once you've got your eye in, the Metcalfe and Superquik buildings become unsatisfying and, certainly in my case, I wanted more.  Scalescenes are a logical next step.

Peter M I think it's worth it sometimes to buy something just to see what it is.  Card kits are quite heavy, like books, so postage can be horrendous - I know this from experience.

John

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I've bitten the bullet and ordered these 2 kits:








Window measurements will arrive soon Peter and I'll start a thread on Kingsway card kits when they arrive. :cheers

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I look forward to receiving the window dimensions Peter. No problem to create some printed windows to suit.

I'm intending to produce some platform seats, but have yet to find some prototype dimensions (although I've found plenty of photo's online).

I thought I'd knock out a park bench instead for now.




Available on Shapeways individually or as a set of 4.


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Platform seats - LNER or LMS but NOT GWR design - would go down very well at Maxmill Peter and, I'm sure, elsewhere too. :thumbs:thumbs

I received my 2 card kits from Kingsway today - I'll start a new thread as soon as I have a moment spare but first impressions are that they seem very expensive and very poor quality against the likes of Metcalfe/Superquick and, against the likes of Scalescenes, they're not even on the same planet.


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I made this model of a GER platform seat as per Wymondham Station.  Unfortunately the monogram is too fine to print.




I have a more generic version for sale without monogram as a set of 6.


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Thanks Peter - those GER ones look good enough for Maxmill. :thumbs

I'll wait to see what you do with the Georgian windows but I need some chimney pots, benches and maybe, the Scalescenes "add ons" for the terraced houses in the short term.  The foot bridge is longer term although I might also have need for a few of the station canopies to cover the platforms outside the Scalescenes large overall roof which only comes half way down the platform.  A goods shed will be blocking any further full width covering.

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I've made some lengths of simple wall mounted bench seating. It comes in 160mm lengths in OO scale. You can just cut the seats to the length you want and glue it onto a wall.



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Could you add church pews to your list to go with Scalecenes church?Also I would be interested in bigger Georgian windows

Last edited on Fri Aug 15th, 2014 11:30 am by vulcanbomber

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I often think .."what next?" ... Church Pews is a great idea, I will do some googling for some suitable photo's and get on to it. 

What size Georgian windows are you looking for. The basic window model is parametric so I can just change the width and height to adjust the size. If you are looking for something slightly different in style I can make some adjustments to the model. (point me at a a photo.)

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Just to let you know, PH Designs (http://www.phd-design-etchings.co.uk/index.php?route=common/home) have done the church pews and they look like they are 3D printed.  This product does not show on the site but Pete Harvey will make them if you contact him.

I found this out on an RMWeb (search for Scalescenes Church) that goes back a couple of years.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do them Peter, but beware of duplication.

John

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I looked on his site and as you say no Church Pews on display. I think I'll model some anyway. 

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The Georgian windows are for this in 00
I looked at PHP for the pews but they were very expensive





Attachment: Georgian2.PDF (Downloaded 14 times)

Last edited on Fri Aug 15th, 2014 12:54 pm by vulcanbomber

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Nice Georgian houses Richard. :thumbs

Where did you find those ?  I note they were published somewhere in 1980 odd ..............:roll:

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I think it might have been an Railway Modeller, I think it might be mid 80s have been holding the plans for years, with the idea of building them eventually.I can let you have the full article if you want

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I've created some simple Church Pews.  These are 40mm long. I will re-size them to suit the Scalescenes Church when I have worked out how long they should be to suit.


Last edited on Tue Aug 19th, 2014 07:21 am by Wizmacnz

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vulcanbomber wrote: The Georgian windows are for this in 00
I looked at PHP for the pews but they were very expensive







I will model up some windows to suit the Georgian  terrace, but I think you should give me some sizes for me to adjust them to, or alternatively I will give you the window sizes (my best guess) and you would have to make the openings the right size to match. The dormers and entrance porch are also things I could look at modeling.

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Just had an e-mail from Shapeways to say my order has been delayed ..............another week to wait. :cry:

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That,s disappointing Peter ,but at least they were decent enough to  let you know.   Whats the matter with them ,don,t they realise there is a whole forum full waiting to see how how you get on with these.

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Thanks for response
Reply about window size later today
Pews looking good
Richard

Last edited on Tue Aug 19th, 2014 08:20 am by vulcanbomber

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I wonder what Shapeways ' problem is. Normally my orders are sent a day or so before the scheduled date.

Last edited on Tue Aug 19th, 2014 09:32 am by Wizmacnz

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Houston, we may have a problem .........................

Just got home to find this from Shapeways Peter.

As I have no idea what these canopy supports should look like off the press, maybe you could tell me if they look OK to you.

They look OK in the "long range" shot but the close up looks as if the cat's had it. :shock::shock::shock:

Let me know and I'll get back to them - or perhaps you could .................:roll::roll:

Ah - not sure you can access the attached photos this way ..............:hmm



Joost Denissen (Shapeways)
Aug 19 11:15
Hi Peter,
I wanted to reach out to you about your order 612842.

Specifically your model: C1 X 7 Scaled. We here at Shapeways try to be as open and upfront as is possible with our community. I have your model in front of me and it looks like it did not leave our printing process unscathed. It looks like the model is missing some details.

Can you review the attached picture and let me know if you would like us to still ship it to you as is?
Customer Service Agent
http://www.shapeways.com
Joost
Attachment(s)
DSCN3648.JPG
DSCN3649.JPG


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With regards to the Georgian windows, the drawing I attached is dimensional correct  with regards to windows, but you need to allow a bit extra for the surrounds.

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Petermac wrote: Houston, we may have a problem .........................

Just got home to find this from Shapeways Peter.

As I have no idea what these canopy supports should look like off the press, maybe you could tell me if they look OK to you.

They look OK in the "long range" shot but the close up looks as if the cat's had it. :shock::shock::shock:

Let me know and I'll get back to them - or perhaps you could .................:roll::roll:

Ah - not sure you can access the attached photos this way ..............:hmm



Joost Denissen (Shapeways)
Aug 19 11:15
Hi Peter,
I wanted to reach out to you about your order 612842.

Specifically your model: C1 X 7 Scaled. We here at Shapeways try to be as open and upfront as is possible with our community. I have your model in front of me and it looks like it did not leave our printing process unscathed. It looks like the model is missing some details.

Can you review the attached picture and let me know if you would like us to still ship it to you as is?
Customer Service Agent
http://www.shapeways.com
Joost
Attachment(s)
DSCN3648.JPG
DSCN3649.JPG




They look a bit blurred to me, as if the laser was slightly out of focus. If you send me the Customer Service Agent's email address I will take it up with him direct and see if there is something that can be done. 

I had some more done for me last month that are still in the bag. I'll check those out to make sure they printed alright.

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Thanks Peter.

Here's his e-mail address:  service@shapeways.com

As you'll have read, his name is Joost Denissen.

I replied to his saying I'd ask you for your opinion as the designer and that I didn't know if they were right or wrong as I'd never seen them "in the flesh".  (Being Dutch, I wonder what he made of "in the flesh" ..........:roll::lol::lol:)

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Petermac wrote: Thanks Peter.

Here's his e-mail address:  service@shapeways.com

As you'll have read, his name is Joost Denissen.

I replied to his saying I'd ask you for your opinion as the designer and that I didn't know if they were right or wrong as I'd never seen them "in the flesh".  (Being Dutch, I wonder what he made of "in the flesh" ..........:roll::lol::lol:)


I have emailed Shapeways to see if I can get a better handle on what the issue is. 

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It seems Shapeways are more interested in performance figures than getting things right !!!

This came in today after I'd told them the product designer would be in touch:

Hi Peter,
Thanks for your reply.
Please get back to me asap. The order already exceeds it's expected shipping date which is off course not good for our figures but most of all we haven't met the expected date that you have received after ordering the order.
Regards,
Customer Service Agent


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I've had no reply yet from Shapeways to the email I sent them yesterday. 

I've been investigating alternatives to Shapeways. There is a company called  Sculpteo that operates similarly to Shapeways and seems to print currently in the USA and what would be more relevant to you, in France. I uploaded a file to get a cost comparison and unfortunately it's about 20% higher than Shapeways.

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I've now had a reply from Shapeways which I'll paste below.

Hi Peter,
Thanks for your email.
The only thing that can be done is to rise the detail level a bit. I suggest to 0.5 mm. 
The models are being orientated so that the circle will be round and not oval. Unfortunately while doing this one side can be bad and one side is good.

Please let me know if you think you can change it (detail level) otherwise I will have the models be shipped.
Personally I think they are pretty good. The customer can sand it down a bit and the detail level is visible but as sharp as possible.

Regards,
Customer Service Agent






When I emailed him I commented that on the column trusses that I have the detail is sharper one side than the other. His email doesn't make it any clearer why this should be.
I'll look at the model and see if I can increase the height of the detail to the .5mm that he suggests (Shapeways spec for minimum height of detail is 0.2mm).


I took a couple of pictures of a recent column I have received here.




Good side ..












Bad side...






Earlier columns that I had printed in February do not have this issue.


In my case I have to say that I hadn't really worried about it because it isn't really that noticeable at a normal viewing distance. The picture below is of the bad side.










I'm not convinced that the increase of detail height by 0.17mm is really going to make much difference.  I think there is something in their current printing methodology that needs attention.  


It's your call Peter, but if I were you I think I would ask them to print to create an equal quality of finish on both faces of the model and ask them not to ship the columns as they currently are. I will be taking the issue up with them in a response to their email to me.

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Thanks Peter.

Certainly the columns you've shown are far better than in the photo they forwarded to me.  If they were like yours, I wouldn't have any issues but, the ones they've currently printed are, to me, unacceptable.

I'll do as you say and ask for a reprint.

Can I send them the photos you've posted here to show the difference ?

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I've sent them those photo's in my email to them, by all means send them again. The material does have a grainy texture, particularly if you don't give it a light wet and dry sanding, so close up photography can really exaggerate this if the lighting is across the surface. His close up picture may be being particularly unkind, but I'm inclined to think that it isn't at the same quality as the ones I have.

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Thanks Peter.

I'll contact them and see what they propose.

As you say, close-up photography is very cruel but even so, I think the photo he sent me was rather worse than just close-up photography - more like a printing problem, particularly as one side looked fine.

I will give them a brush over with fine wet-or-dry although, as Maxmill isn't an exhibition layout, I'll cope with a few imperfections.  I'm building it so I've got used to imperfections ..................:oops::oops::oops::oops::cry:

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Well I got a bit of a non reply from Shapeways. No explanation of why the ones printed in February were the same on both sides, but he did acknowledge that they have had some issues with their printers. He says they are going to reprint your columns. Let's hope they come out better this time.

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I got a similar e-mail Peter - apparently the admitted problem with the printer has now been solved.  They'll re-print and ship then I have to let them know what I think.

Thanks for you help with this.  We'll wait and see what Postie brings when they arrive. They didn't give any dates this time ...........:roll:

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A very strong cardboard box arrived via carrier from Shapeways today. :thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

The platform benches, chimney pots, assorted windows including the set for the Kingsway Georgian terrace and the reprinted station canopy columns and integral trusses.

First impressions are extremely encouraging.  A really first class product Peter and one I'd urge anyone dithering about, to have a go at - you won't be disappointed.

There is an almost imperceptible grain on the windows and benches, slightly more noticable on the chimney pots although nothing worth doing much about and, on the reprinted columns, the underside of the truss bracket gussett will need a quick rub over with fine wet or dry to tidy up a slightly rough finish.

The strength of the products is incredible.

I'm delighted with what I've bought - many thanks for your design efforts Peter. :cheers:cheers

One further thing.

I've only bought the column and integral truss for the canopy - as a "taster" before lashing out millions of euros on the whole thing.  I'll need the intermediate "slot on" trusses, the central frame and the valances to complete the roof framing.  There is an "exploded view" of how all the components fit together both on here and on your shop site but it's too small for me to read properly.  If I blow it up, I lose difinition.  Any chance of a downloadable copy so I can order the remaining bits please ?

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Glad you like the models Peter.

I have the instruction sheets for canopies as PDF files. I don't think there is a way of posting them here, so I've sent you a PM.

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Well I am blown away by what I have stumbled upon here.
Superb items and I just know that I am going to be spending a fortune for the 'OO' gauge items both buildings and furniture.
Superb work and I will be bulk buying in 2015, when I hope to have the railway room finished and track laid!
ATB,

:thumbs Ian

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I received a notification from Shapeways today about a major restructuring of their pricing. With major fanfare they say that their new pricing model will decrease the cost of 3D printing. This is however a somewhat misleading piece of spin for those designing small model railway components. They are going to impose a "per part" labour charge that eliminates the economy of supplying items as sets of things. The impact on my pricing is in some cases up to a ten fold increase in price.

I will be looking at how I go about restoring a more competitive price; printing things on sprues, looking at alternative printers etc. If anyone has been thinking about buying any of my products, the price re-structuring is due to be implemented on October 7, so get an order in quick!

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I've heard about this price change elsewhere Peter - a tram modeller friend who uses them in much the same way you do.  He also  complained that larger prints seemed to be coming down in price whereas his small articles were going through the roof.

Time for a re-think as far as Shapeways are concerned I think.  Either, as you say, printing on a sprue or even looking elsewhere - I think you said there was another printer here in Europe but their prices were higher.  Is that still the case.

I received my doors and platform canopy skeleton the other day - I'm as pleased with them as I was with my first order although, as far as Shapeways themselves are concerned, I heard nothing for what seemed like ages, then an e-mail to say they were running late, immediately followed by another saying the order was on it's way !!!  I'm not sure how the company operates but their admin leaves a little to be desired to say the least .........................

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Well the platform canopy skeleton, even though it's a single item, will more than double in price under the new pricing regime. The new system of charging is based more on the space taken up in the printer and less on the amount of material printed. 
I'm sure the pricing will settle down again in the long term. In the short term there are a lot of angry designers who have had the rules turned upside down with very little notice.

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I can imagine how angry you all are Peter - yet another example of lack of support for the "little man".

If the canopy skeleton doubles in price, it's dead in the water.  It's already a pricey item and the cost of building a platform of any length would become prohibitive.

Time for a look at another printing company I think ......................................they must be out there  :roll::roll::roll:

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I'm sure common sense will prevail again at some stage. The attached picture shows how ludicrous it is. The little loop of plastic I've modeled passing through the windows reduces the price Shapeways will charge by US$28.50. Shapeways then see it as a single part in the price calculation. The price with the loop  is still higher than the old price by about 25%. This is all on the back of an announcement from Shapeways of "better pricing". I note their choice of words, i.e not cheaper or lower but better. 


Last edited on Wed Oct 1st, 2014 09:16 am by Wizmacnz

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Better pricing for whom Peter ?  Not, it would appear, for their customers .............

As you say, that loop shows just how stupid their pricing policy is - more plastic printed but a reduced price !! :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

Is the loop attached to the windows or just a "loop" ?

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It's just a loop passing through the window pane. The windows would then all be like charms on a bracelet. Cut the loop and throw it away and you have 20 windows without any sprue marks.

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Who operates the brain at Shapeways ? 

A totally bizarre situation and one that ultimately, will do them no good at all - unless there's something about 3D printing we're missing ..................:roll::roll::roll::roll:

Maybe they're not interested in our kind of printing .........................:hmm

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I know that Hattons are starting to promote their 3D printer... Always worth asking.

Cheers, Gary.

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Hi Gary
I already have a domestic 3D printer. Unfortunately it's not anywhere near in the same league as the commercial printers that Shapeways use.

Last edited on Thu Oct 2nd, 2014 10:01 am by Wizmacnz

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Hi All,Its a pity i stumbled on this on the day the prices went up... i like the look of what you have achieved, i may need to get my UG to work and invest in a domestic printer.. commercial ones are a bit to expensive ...
CheersWaggie

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Well the prices have gone up for all the OO scale stuff but the N scale is not changed. I will revisit each model and see what I can do to adjust to Shapeways new pricing structure to restore some sanity to the prices, but I have to confess my Mojo has gone a bit, so I wont be rushing into joining items with sprues and plastic loops.

Wizmacnz
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I'm feeling a little bit guilty that I haven't spent time yet to optimise my models to try and get the pricing down on Shapeways new pricing methodology. Someone has bought a set of my church pews on Shapeways for US$25.04. I get the 4 cents :)




I think I can get a significant cost reduction if I sprue them and pack them together. Still won't be as cheap as they were before the price changes.

Wizmacnz
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The process of optimising printing to suit the new Shapeways cost structure is slowly progressing.

Chimney pots for Scalescenes kits are the latest thing to get some attention. 

This set of pots for the Scalescenes Low Relief House Backs is reduced to about a third of the price by the addition of the connecting sprues.



Last edited on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 11:01 am by Wizmacnz

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Nice work Peter.

Optimising and reducing cost is all part if the business.

What's on the burner (or back burner) at the moment, or are you just enjoying the onset of Summer?


Marty

Last edited on Sat Nov 22nd, 2014 01:08 am by Marty

Wizmacnz
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Marty, I am still trying to recover my mojo after Shapeways pulled the rug away with their repricing. I still have a lot of things that need "re-packaging" to get some sanity back in the pricing. I'm spurred on a bit by the fact that some people are buying things that I would consider too pricey. When the price change went through Shapeways many of my items ended up with me getting a zero designers margin, so it's even more upsetting that Shapeways is getting a lot more cash and I'm getting none. My own fault.... I should have gone in and reset my margins. I just thought that no one would be buying at the higher price.

One thing I am considering working up a model of is building frontages, terraced houses, shopfronts etc, which could provide a bit more 3D relief than the traditional card. I just need slightly more mojo to get started.

Marty
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Yeah, the old mojo thing is hard to manage sometimes.
Have you tried shopping around for another printing company, Shapeways are notoriously expensive. I've been hovering on the edge of 3D printing for about 18 months now (still haven't bit the bullet yet) and lurking on the forums. There has been a significant discussion generated by their pricing "restructure" and there are more players than ever in the 3D printing market.
Granted that you margins are never going to be all that high or your volumes significant (don't get me wrong, I would be delighted to be proven incorrect), you could possibly do better with a local (NZ) printer and your own online store?
Just a thought..
Are the low relief houses going to be used on your layout? That should be inspiration enough! Especially as they can be completed and then put aside until you get your layout up and running again?

Oh... and I've just ordered one of your N scale footbridges too.  Should be here by Christmas!


Cheers

Marty

Last edited on Sat Nov 22nd, 2014 01:08 am by Marty

Wizmacnz
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I did a bit of investigation for Shapeways alternatives and couldn't find one that was significantly cheaper. 3D printing companies that print with anything better than the extruded melted plastic are a bit thin on the ground here. It so happens though that I do know someone that runs a business that is printing in the same sort of technologies as Shapeways. His market though is high end prototype and his pricing can't compete with Shapeways and I then still have the cost of packaging, postage etc.

I've always been in this for the long haul and like most technology, things just get cheaper and cheaper. I'm looking forward to the day when it is the design that earns the money and the printing is just a minor cost.

Wizmacnz
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Marty, very rude of me not to say thanks in my last post. The N scale footbridge has been one of my best sellers. The N scale stuff has not been hit by the Shapeways repricing as it's all printed in their frosted ultra detail material.

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In one of your first posts you mentioned designing a website so tat you could sell a cad drawing to be printed at home a little like scale scenes but in the plastic world.

How s this coming along as I may have a domestic 3d printer and scanner coming along shortly

James

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Hi Jimmy
My son owns a company that amongst other things develops websites. You'd think therefore it would be well underway, but life is full of these little ironies.

I own a Replicator 2X 3D printer and my experience has shown me that it isn't really suitable for printing  the higher detailed stuff that I have been selling via Shapeways. It was the Shapeways stuff that has been getting most of the time that I have available at present. Where the home 3D printers come into their own is with less detailed, higher plastic volume items. Once you ignore the cost of the printer, the material is relatively cheap.


The things that I have found useful to print are things like building walls. I've modelled walls for the Scalescenes small terraced houses for example. Printing is slow, but you don't have to watch it. I have many times said how much I hate cutting card.  I started a thread here http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=12338&forum_id=101


Sad to say, I haven't finished putting together one of these yet. Shapeways design work having taken most of my spare time. It is something I will return to, but at the moment my free time is very limited.

Once you have your printer I would be happy to pass on to you free of charge printable files of things I have created suitable for printing at home. At present there aren't many. As you will discover when you get into it, things print best when they don't need any significant support material. Something like my 00 scale dining table prints quite well on a home printer. It's printed up-side down with the legs printed upwards with no support material. The dining chairs have a back on them, which means that whatever way you print it either the seat, the legs or the back will need support material. It's near impossible to print without breaking the model as you separate it from its' support.

Send me a PM when you are ready to print some stuff.

Wizmacnz
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I received an email today from one of my Shapeways customers, Peter Meadows from the Blue Mountains of New South Wales. He enclosed some pictures of canopies he has been building using my components. He has gone the route of using my trusses and valances and scratchbuilding his own roofs. A cost effective solution because solid plastic roofing is still expensive to print.

He's given me permission to reproduce his photo's so here a couple of them.








He also sent me this link to a video of his layout made by his grandson that I think captures the atmosphere and magic that can sometimes be created in our hobby.  The video was made pre-canopies. Peter has another metre of canopy components to make up, so I'm looking forward to the next video with anticipation.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Rj9fXgByEY

Last edited on Wed Feb 11th, 2015 10:00 am by Wizmacnz

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Work, a damaged shoulder and interminable house alterations have somewhat limited my ability to sit in front of the computer in the evenings and create new models for 3D printing. I have been able to get a little more done recently. One of the things I've been working on is classical columns. Not the easiest of things to make in card or plastic if you want to have the correct form of taper in the column. Easy to replicate though with 3D printing. The columns are available on Shapeways at various sizes, to allow you to make anything from a simple front porch for a georgian house, to an  imposing facade for a civic building.

I've put a couple together with a door and a couple of steps as a single printed item that can be stuck on the front of scratchbuilt building.



The columns have yet to make it onto my website http://www.modelrailwaystructures.com but can be found at my Shapeways shop by clicking on the link in my signature below. Updating the website is another one of those tasks that has got a bit behind.

Wizmacnz
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Modern seating for use on station platforms etc are now available in my Shapeways shop in HO,OO and N scales.







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Peter
Am I missing something here?:hmm:hmm
You say that the N scale stuff is unchanged in price because of the different material used. So what about doing the 00 stuff in the slightly dearer material if it will reduce the overall cost?

Regards
Jim

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The Bankie wrote: Peter
Am I missing something here?:hmm:hmm
You say that the N scale stuff is unchanged in price because of the different material used. So what about doing the 00 stuff in the slightly dearer material if it will reduce the overall cost?

Regards
Jim

Hi Jim
I don't want to try and confuse you too much with the Shapeways pricing model, it certainly confuses and surprises me at times.

Shapeways have  a cost calculated on the basis of the material used for printing, the space taken up in the printing machine and a price per part in the print job or a price per print job, depending on the material being printed.  The OO scale stuff uses a cheaper material but takes up more space in the printer. The N scale stuff can't be printed in the cheaper material, because that material can't be printed that thin. As the material volume and the volume of space in the printer is about one quarter for N than it is for the same object in OO that tends to bring the pricing down on N scale items even if it is a more expensive material.
But... whereas the cheaper nylon material has a per part charge, the more expensive material has a per job charge instead. The current per part and per job charges are US$1.50 and US$5.00.  So an N scale print is never going to cost less than $5.00 

I use a few tricks to make the nylon prints as a single part. For example 10 windows are printed with a nylon loop through them, so that Shapeways sees it as a single part. This saves US$13.50 on the cost of a set of windows, an amount that unless saved would have made them completely cost prohibitive. There is no cost saving by using the loop with the N scale windows, but I've now included it in that scale model because I fear that at some stage Shapeways will introduce the same costing method for that material as well. Adapting to the per part charge when they introduced it for nylon took a lot of time and effort, and I don't want to have to go through that again.






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Hi Peter
Confuse me? You wont have to try very hard.
Perhaps you should have a look here:-
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=1690
Take a look at the pricing particularly at the bottom of the page on the stuff marked “Backorder”
a conversation with them reveals that they reckon its a 30 day cycle and if you send them the money you can have one when the new stock arrives.:lol::lol:
I reckon it's a con since these things have been on backorder for about 4 months and it's why I don't have one. I think they are trying to flog off the dearer ones at the top of the list first before they release the cheaper ones. I'm a Scotsman, SWMBO is Yorkshire born and bred. That attitude means NO SALE in this part of the world.:hmm


Best of luck finding an alternative supplier.


Regards
Jim


PS I investigated Shapeways about a year ago as I need some custom fittings for tramway use.
I also looked at Orr track. The result was that if use Shapeways and get them to print the pointwork in real Orr, (Gold) since they offer printing in metal, it would be marginally cheaper than the Orr track and the electrical contacts would be better.:mrgreen:

Marty
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Nice to see you back in the saddle Peter. That doorway looks the business.

What's next?

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Well Marty, I'm about half way through adjusting the modeling for all the different doors in my range. There are about 18 different door types and each type can be available in up to three or four different sizes. The remodeling will make them all capable of being scaled to suit 00,HO, N & S scales. HO was the problem with the previous versions of the models. Some sections were just too thin to print. It's all been a bit mind, numbingly repetitively dull. Change model, create the different sizes, scale each one to each of the different scales, upload to Shapeways, fill in all shapeways info for each one, then update the website for each one. I'm determined to finish it before moving onto something else.

The seats were a welcome diversion, they have been uploaded in 6 seat sets in OO, HO and N scales. Some one has requested them at 1:64 so I may have to start creating S scale pages on my website.

I want to focus really on things that can be added into your scratchbuilding or added to a kit that enhance what your making, but are also simple to use. Doors and windows have been very popular, hence my effort to rationalise those ranges. 
After the doors, the windows will get a complete revamp. But I'm thinking I'll tackle a couple of other diversions before that.

I knocked out this little model the other day. It's a planter for a model of Wigan Wallgate Station. This sits on the platform. If he buys it I'll make a whole $1.06. But then it's not about the money is it.



Last edited on Thu Sep 22nd, 2016 11:11 pm by Wizmacnz

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I've finally finished updating all my current range of 3D printed doors.


A useful information sheet can be downloaded from http://www.modelrailwaystructures.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Door-Range-1.pdf





To browse through the doors with sizes and pricing go to my website page. http://www.modelrailwaystructures.com/doors/


Pricing shown on my website is for HO scale. At Shapeways you can select the scale that you want and the price is updated. OO and HO are similar in price. N Scale is normally cheaper than OO even though it is printed in a more expensive material.  S Scale and O Scale uses more material and is therefore more expensive.



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Someone requested a version of a footbridge to suit 3 platforms, with one span across two tracks and the other span across a single track. So here it is. It can be purchased in N Scale only at https://www.shapeways.com/product/EY574J2SF/footbridge-3-n-scale for the princely sum of US$27.



The drawing below gives the key dimensions. I'm sure I will follow up with a more normal double twin track version soon.



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And here is the version to span two twin tracks at US$29.

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Wow - that's cheap !!!  Pity it's only in "N" gauge ...................... :cry: :cry:

Wizmacnz
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Unfortunately Peter this is another example of where 3D printing really favours the N scalers. I have put up an OO scale version, but it's US$115. It 's an example where the volume dictates the price. Double the scale and you end up with a volume that is cubed. Very unfair with a lattice structure like this, because most of that volume is fresh air, but that's the way Shapeways choose to calculate their pricing at the moment. 


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 I agree Peter.  Modellers, and indeed, designers, found that, when Shapeways altered their pricing policy, the larger scales were heavily penalised.

A great pity because the product is superb.  When I look at some of the prices at Shapeways, I think they've made a typo.  Often, I can't imagine anyone paying what they want to charge.

Wizmacnz
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Well today some kind person bought two of the large bridges in OO scale  ;-)


                 

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