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Sketchup - Materials & Tools. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Tue Aug 28th, 2012 02:34 pm
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GreenBoy
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Hi
(Sorry if this is in the wrong section)
Is any one here any good with Sketchup?
I have been designing a little building I would like to have a go bashing together in card, and have therefore designed it (I hope) so it is all in layers of card.
What I now need to do is print it out, and would like to be able to print multiple sections on a single sheet if possible - ie North and South Walls on one sheet, East wall with plinths etc. on another etc. etc.
Is there any easy way to do this without having to literally drag all the components to a single layer which will involve a an awful lot of moving and rotating..... 
Any tips gratefully received.
Dave



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 Posted: Tue Aug 28th, 2012 06:05 pm
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ddolfelin
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I'd be interested, too.



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 Posted: Tue Aug 28th, 2012 06:48 pm
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Sol
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A few have used it on YMR - I searched & found 35 references - Dooferdog has used it & he may see this thread & respond( well he will as I will point it out to him )



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 Posted: Tue Aug 28th, 2012 07:45 pm
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xdford
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I have had all sorts of dramas with Sketchup just trying to get proper scales and sizing let alone the views... Could you or someone in the group run a simple tutorial even for a factory type building? I'm reasonable at drawing but something has deluded me in this program... or if someone can PM me and I can ask questions...

Thanks in Anticipation

Trevor

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 Posted: Wed Aug 29th, 2012 03:00 am
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Hi, All,

I'm currently away from home and due to go off to NW Spain [Galicia] for a couple of weeks so won't be able to help for a bit.

Briefly, from my experience you need to be sure that you have 'dimensioned' and 'scaled' early in the drawing and I then use the dimensions to draw out elements like roof shapes etc onto paper etc.

There are tutorials and a users blog, but above all I'd recommend starting extremely basically with, say, a shoe-box shape, and learn how to scale and dimension that before doing anything more complicated, it is how I started.

Good luck,

Doug



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 Posted: Wed Aug 29th, 2012 08:38 am
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Angusog
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hey Greenboy

are you using the free version or Pro, if you are using pro ignore everything after this paragraph. my experience is with the free version

I play with Sketchup nearly every day, but primarily as a design tool. because printing from it is really difficult, if not impossible to get acurate sizes to print out.

one way i re-size the printout is to export 2D to MS publisher or even in MS word if i just want a diagram of whatever I'm trying to print. doing this i can scale up to a decent size, and although i gave up trying i would think it would be possible if not terribly accurate to re-size in publisher to a scale dimension.

One way of not changing your original drawing is to use scenes, grab a copy of the building and paste it into a different scene, make it unique so it does,nt change the original, and do any changes to explode it and get your walls separated, one tip when printing , you usually get what you see on screen, so using the plan, front back view and parallel projection all help to get the best printout, rather than trying to view in perspective view which is the default view.

to recap Sketchup is not the best program to use if your trying to print out scale building to assemble, I am sure it could be done, the pro version helps but at $450+ pretty expensive.

hope this helps if not PM me or even email me the file with directions of what you need , would be glad to help.

regard

Robert



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 Posted: Wed Aug 29th, 2012 11:53 am
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Sorry, Robert, but that is not my experience with the free Sketch Up...I'd not like to put anyone off, or even suggest that you need to print off model components. My dimensioned drawings are naturally on my 'pooter at home and so I am unable currently to access them.


Having returned from my day out, and working on my chum's 'pooter I have found  here


 http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=3303&forum_id=21&highlight=bear%27s+end  [see posts 299 and 303]


some Sketch Up pictures. During the process of drawing the pictures I took care to have one major dimension known before hand, I think it was the designed length of the front wall, say 60ft, so that by re-scaling to 4mm/1ft you could set it to be 240mm. Thereafter any 'dimension' queried with the tape tool would be the correct length in millimetres so that real 1/76th shapes could be drawn out with a pair of dividers and a ruler and pencil.

I think you will agree that there are some complicated roof-lines there, but I was able to draw them all out as triangles and rectangles using a school set-square and a pencil and they all fitted together first time.

HOWEVER I would not have been able to do so had I not first drawn several very basic shapes, learned to scale them and use the dimensioning tool.

I even measured, drew and dimensioned a Sketch Up picture of a toothpaste tube box before I was happy with using the sytem for my [very basic] needs!
 

Doug



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 Posted: Wed Aug 29th, 2012 04:31 pm
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Angusog
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G'day Doug

I think we are at x purposes here drawing to scale is no problem for Sketchup, provided you know the dimensions you are scaling,

what i think is really difficult in Sketchup is printing to a specific size
, the printout is not to scale or even screen size. not the drawing, just the output from the printer.

as you say once you have the dimensions, drawing up your components would be relatively easy as Sketchup will give you all your relative dimensions and angles using the tape measure tool, and I am sorry if I put anyone off from using Sketchup it is a great tool for drawing, you can instantly see what works and what doesn't.



hope that clears that up  things

regards

Robert




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 Posted: Wed Aug 29th, 2012 05:49 pm
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GreenBoy
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Why do you have to scale?

I have drawn it at 4 mm scale - it takes a little math but easy to get the hang of. A brick is 9 inches long in old money which is about 3 mm and 1 mm tall.....

No scaling is necessary to print.

Or am I missing something?



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 Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2012 03:48 am
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Angusog
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G'day Greenboy

Sorry i am not explaining myself well today, you dont have to scale any thing, what i am trying to explain, and not very well it seems, is the print out will not be the correct size. i.e. a 100mm x 100mm box doesn't print out at 100 x 100. I have just printed out a 6" square it measures 5 7/32 square. this was at maximum zoom (clicking on the little magnifying glass), I zoomed out to about 50% and now it has printed at 2 1/4". so the printout it related to the view on screen. sorry for resorting to using inches but I have my template set to imperial for some reason.

So to recap, Greenboy, you can design any building your heart desires in Sketchup, and add as much detail as you like. but to build it you will be drawing and card cutting old school, with pencil and set square, to get the walls and gables, windows etc. on to your sheet as you want it.

Where Sketchup will help you is in the design and measurements, as drawing to scale, all your measurements will be correct. and you can print this out, for reference to help you draw onto the card you want to cut.

I hope this is more helpful than the last 2 posts.




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 Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2012 04:16 am
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ddolfelin
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Perhaps the finished drawing could be copied and transferred to another application where known 'sizes' can be reconfigured for printing.
In fact, a datum line (eg absolute page width) could perhaps be included for this purpose?



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 Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2012 09:25 am
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Chubber
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Hi, home again for 24 hours, will try and fit in a reply before I go.

 

Doug



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 Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2012 11:49 am
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ddolfelin
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I've been trying to download Sketchup onto the Mac.
No joy so far.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2012 12:57 pm
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Chubber
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Hurrow! before I go anyfurther, I must state that SketchUp is a means of [primarily] drawing isometric views of objects which may be rotated and looked at from any angle, and that if I use capitals in this post I am not 'shouting' at anyone!

Isometric? Imagine a railway carriage drawn in '3D', you are standing twenty feet from the front left-hand corner. The nearest door will appear to be say, 2ft-6in wide. The next door will appear to be say, 2ft-3in wide, the next a little smaller and so on, we all know it as the perspective effect. Now walk around to your right and stand 100ft feet away from the middle door, the chances are that all the doors will appear to be the same width.......SketchUp can do the sums for the perspective thing and let you zoom around your 'model' keeping all the doors the right width from wherever you are standing, pretty clever!  So when


David asked -

What I now need to do is print it out, and would like to be able to print multiple sections on a single sheet if possible - ie North and South Walls on one sheet, East wall with plinths etc. on another etc. etc.
Is there any easy way to do this


My considered response to David's question is 'No'. There is no easy way to 'lay out' all the components to my limited knowledge so that they are readily printable...BUT see the drawings below

 




and a 'twiddled around' version of exactly the same drawing...

 




Once this drawing was completed, and I knew how long the front wall would be IN THE SCALE OF MY MODEL RAILWAY, i.e. 189mm, I dimensioned that wall to 189mm and thereafter, SketchUp would measure and insert any length I picked with the tape measure tool TO THE SAME SCALE. So, when SketchUp knew the front wall was 189mm it knew that the long ridge line was 157.5mm long when I asked for it to be measured.

Hence the reason I posted -

Briefly, from my experience you need to be sure that you have 'dimensioned' and 'scaled' early in the drawing and I then use the dimensions to draw out elements like roof shapes etc onto paper etc.


and why DD's post - Perhaps the finished drawing could be copied and transferred to another application where known 'sizes' can be reconfigured for printing.

makes perfect sense.


Robert posted - what i think is really difficult in Sketchup is printing to a specific size, the printout is not to scale or even screen size. not the drawing, just the output from the printer....

Yes, 'cos it's just a perpective sketch, albeit a perfectly proportioned one

and Angus posted -i.e. a 100mm x 100mm box doesn't print out at 100 x 100. I have just printed out a 6" square it measures 5 7/32 square. this was at maximum zoom (clicking on the little magnifying glass), I zoomed out to about 50% and now it has printed at 2 1/4".

Yes again, SketchUp doesn't know how far away from the railway carriage you want to stand... or how big one side of your box was IN THE SCALE OF YOUR MODEL BOX WORLD..

and Greenboy posted -

Why do you have to scale?... am I missing something?

You have to let SketchUp know how wide a door is in your model world so that it can tell you how long the entire carriage is...

There may indeed be a way of selecting each component, using the SketchUp 'properties' tool to save it as a separate entity, and bring together several entities in one 2D picture, but that is more than a little beyond me. I only use it in cases like the mill building where some of the components are of irregular shape and need to fit together very accurately.

I don't know if this post has answered any questions for anyone or merely prompted more, but at the risk of boring you all I will repeat that in order to drag my non-turbo, agricultural fag-packet design mind to the mill building standard in SketchUp I started with very simple models and learned dimensioning and scaling. Finally, it is possible in SketchUp to select 'Toolbars' from the 'View' menu and then the 'View' toolbar and there select 'front', back, top, bottom etc views without perspective.

Poop-poop,

 

Doug




 Moderators - may I respectfully suggest this thread be moved to the 'Computing' or 'Software' part of the forum, and be alphabetically indexed under "SketchUp - a discussion on use for drawing model buildings" or some such?

D

 



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 Posted: Sat Sep 1st, 2012 04:01 pm
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gastwo
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Dave, I don't have any experience of Sketchup, but if you have Photoshop available, it's really easy to draw and print to scale.
Heres a link to the last little building I made:

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=10234&forum_id=14

Hope this helps,

Shaun.

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 Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 02:56 am
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GreenBoy
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Wow Shaun that hut is excellent.
I do have access to a copy of Ye Old PhotoShope but have not really used it very much. For example I didn't know you could add a grid like that.
I have some questions though:
Do you know any good tutorials on basic use? 
How do you scale your textured wall sheet? Also who's do you use - I was assuming that Scalescenes PDF's would be locked down so you cant use them.
Thanks for the tip.



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 Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 04:11 am
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gastwo
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Hi Dave.
Glad you like the shed!

There are so many Photoshop tutorials around - I just browse amongst them all...:lol:

Textures- 'CG Textures' on the web is a great source for downloading free stuff. Scalescenes textures are really good as well - I've done several of Johns kits, but they are 00 or N, and at the moment I'm modelling in 3mm !! To get around the scale problem I scan some of the Scalescenes PDFs and then reduce them in P'shop.

In the case of Kilgerran stonework, I'm using a digital photograph that i took of a wall at an old mine complex in the hills above Llanidloes, Mid Wales. Import the photo into P'shop and then copy and paste to build up a sheet.

To scale and manipulate, first select an image or part with the Marque tool, then edit/ transform and play around.

See the screenshot below:




To get a grid, go into edit/preferences/guides grids & slices and enter your requirements - see the two screenshots below:








In the example above I've gone for 20 subdivisions, to give me a 0.5mm grid. Of course, this small size only shows when you zoom right in!
You have the facility in View to turn the grid on or off (and it doesn't print, BTW, the grid is only a guide...!)

I've found that the final print-out is very accurate - to within the nearest half mm at least - and thats with a cheapo HP all-in-one printer.

Hope this has helped - you can pm me if you like if you have any more queries.

Regards,
Shaun.

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 Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2012 03:21 pm
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Geoff R
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I use Powerpoint for accurate printing of computer generated drawings. You could easily take the dimensioned drawing from Sketchup and redraw it in PPT using the dimensions shown. It will then print out exactly to size. You can also easily add front, back, sides and roofing panels on the same sheet and even alongside each other if it helps, especially if one sheet of card will be used and folded.

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