GWR Stable design

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The use of Horses on the Railways

I often think that modellers of the 30s,40s and 50s tend to neglect the significance of Horse power in operating the railways and indeed many other aspects of everyday life in the preceding decades.

As a boy living in a suburb of Liverpool, I can recall that our milk was delivered in a churn on a pony and trap. The refuse collectors (we called them dustbin men) tipped the waste from bins into a wagon drawn by a cart horse.

The GWR, like the other railway companies , used horses throughout their operation….collecting and delivering freight and hauling wagons for shunting. All these horses had to be looked after. There was a hospital for 400 horses in London. Special wagons to deliver provender and remove (for sale) manure. The horses had to be housed. Larger depots had multi floor stables while small branch stations had purpose built stables to a standard GWR design.

With the advent of the internal combustion engines the horses were steadily replaced and the stables became redundant. However, they were rarely demolished immediately, rather they were converted to stores or more often than not converted to become a garage for the new fangled lorries.

Ever since seeing a converted stable on John Flann's iconic "Hintock" I have been determined to create a stable for "Granby".  My intent is to base the model on the standard design illustrated in Stephen Williams  "Great Western Branch Line Modelling"  Part 2

I am puzzled by one feature in all the photos……At ground level there is a niche or alcove which I would guess is between 3'-4' high and 30" wide……..it has all the common architectural finishing detail and is clearly part of the original design……but what was the purpose?  I have no idea and would welcome any suggestions.

I cant publish the photos for copyright reasons……but for those of you who have the book (essential reading for any GWR modeller) its on Page 42 
 

John
Granby III
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John,
I've had a look at the photo and I'm fairly confident that it is a recess for a water pump or tap, the horse water trough would have been at the base of the wall but has been removed.
With the optivisor on I think I can see water staining inside the recess and possibly the tap still in place in one photo.
cheers
Marty

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Marty
N Gauge, GWR West Wales
Newcastle Emlyn Layout.
Newcastle Emlyn Station is "Under construction"
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Thats a great project John,I to will be useing horse power on Axeingholm.The Railways used them for shunting wagons as well as delivery and many other tasks.I can remember the horse and wagon/cart as a familiar sight in the London of the 50,s.Langly do some very nice models.
Cheers,
Derek.
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… certainly a tap… from a copy of the official drawing of Abingdon stables in A. Vaughan's book "a pictorial record of Great Western Architecture" there is a note that says " 3/4" brass bit (bib) cock with union for tubing" and " 4.5in recess the back rendered in concrete".
The tiny holes at ground level are "sweep holes".
cheers
Marty

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Marty
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Newcastle Emlyn Layout.
Newcastle Emlyn Station is "Under construction"
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I was struck by a picture of a very busy LMS Goods station taken in the 30s.  There were a great many road vehicles in the picture but not a single internal combustion vehicle - all were horse drawn.

John

John
 
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Thanks Marty……that makes perfect sense…..now I have to work out to what extent I model it!  Mind you its the roof vents that I am worrying about:shock:


John
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[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:
Thanks Marty……that makes perfect sense…..now I have to work out to what extent I model it!  Mind you its the roof vents that I am worrying about:shock:

:twisted:Following this thread John,Hmm roof vents.:mutley.
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John, do have Ahern's Building book? If not I have copyright permissions from the family to post his stuff here, not knowing what type of ventilators you are referring to as I don't have that book.

A 'fumnail' sketch would help to see what you're after…

Doug

'You may share the labours of the great, but you will not share the spoil…'  Aesop's Fables

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin


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Come to think of it, I have permission from Trevor Booth, a very nice man and illustrator of the Silver Link book on GWR modelling to post his illustrayions from the book, is this what you have in mind shown on a stables building?

If so it won't be too difficult, I'm sure.




Doug

'You may share the labours of the great, but you will not share the spoil…'  Aesop's Fables

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin


In the land of the slap-dash and implausible, mediocrity is king
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Thanks Doug

That's brilliant……I really appreciate the measurements……I was reduced to using a cart horse from my branch coal yard and estimating adequate living space for 3-4 horses

I fear I have been rather stingy ( Nelson's Navy hammock style) mine will only be 23' long which is probably a bit miserable for even 3 horses! I guess there will be a larger building off scene.

My other dimensions seem ok. It was clearly a standard design apart from the position of the window vents it is almost identical to the photos of the real thing in Stephen Williams book.

Both your drawing and the photos have two roof vents……now I know they are 4' I think I should only build one for my model which makes things. easier

I should have mentioned that to match the parcels depot which I built over 12 years ago I am using Slaters Plastic glued to card………shock horror etc so it's a little trickier than starting from scratch with Scalescene printed components

Nevertheless thanks again for the drawings…..really helpful

Kind Regards

John
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[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:
………………………

I fear I have been rather stingy ( Nelson's Navy hammock style) mine will only be 23' long which is probably a bit miserable for even 3 horses! ………………………………………………………………………
Battery horses John - tut tut - whatever next ……………….:mutley:mutley

'Petermac
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Horses on the railways?  Here's one I did earlier…




Terry
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That's really good Terry:thumbs

But where did he live?:lol:

John
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Marty has kindly emailed me drawings for Abingdon, which are virtually identical to the drawing that Doug posted, Park Royal, which is/was enormous …………..however the stall width was 6' 3 3/4"  per horse………so I am not so heartless and finally Castle Cary which is almost identical to the model I have roughed out…..one window either side of the stable door…..so maybe I am not as far off track as I thought.

The vertical panels above the door and at the base of the windows are described in immaculate copper plate as "Hit and miss ventilators"…………..something I had never heard of before……so I googled  it looking for an explanation and instead got zillions of responses from people trying to sell me "Hit & Miss Vents"………the description is still in use today….apparently it describes a panel with vertical apertures that can be  be closed with a sliding panel fitted behind…….one lives and learns……not that I will attempt to model it…….I will however try and suggest its presence!

I must confess I find this aspect of the hobby totally fascinating

John
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Me too!

Marty
N Gauge, GWR West Wales
Newcastle Emlyn Layout.
Newcastle Emlyn Station is "Under construction"
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I have rebuilt/repaired such a ventilator (rh window) when I did some part time work at the Devon Shire Horse Centre.

Simply a ladder affair laid on its side with another behind.The subtle part was in the track for the inner sliding member ran in a rebate, the lower face pierced with elongated holes to allow dust and chaff to drop through when slid from side to side and so prevent binding.

The front outer lower edge was given a pronounced bevel to assist water to shed outwards. I may still have a (paper) photo, but where is anyone's guess. I'll have a think but today is officially the day before Christmas Eve chez nous because our daughter arrives Friday for a visit, so it's early mince pies, pork pie and sausage roll making day…yum!

Doug

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'You may share the labours of the great, but you will not share the spoil…'  Aesop's Fables

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin


In the land of the slap-dash and implausible, mediocrity is king
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The house where we grew up (and my brother still lives) had a stable block which was eventually converted to a Granny Flat for my Mother.  The stables there had those sliding slatted windows but I had no idea they were called "hit and miss" ventilators.  A very clever design. :thumbs

It's not too late to invite me up for mince pies, pork pie and sausage rolls Doug ………………………….I could bring some lining paper. :roll::roll::mutley:mutley

'Petermac
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[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:
The house where we grew up (and my brother still lives) had a stable block which was eventually converted to a Granny Flat for my Mother.  The stables there had those sliding slatted windows but I had no idea they were called "hit and miss" ventilators.  A very clever design. :thumbs

It's not too late to invite me up for mince pies, pork pie and sausage rolls Doug ………………………….I could bring some lining paper. :roll::roll::mutley:mutley

Sorry John, couldn't resist teasing Peter…..

Claire has arrived, with lining paper and we are eating pork pie and soddige rolls, pork and beef!



OK John, you can have your thread back now, please note, no horses were harmed in the making of these come-stables….

Doug

Last edit: by Chubber


'You may share the labours of the great, but you will not share the spoil…'  Aesop's Fables

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin


In the land of the slap-dash and implausible, mediocrity is king
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:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:  Looks like a splendid feast of my favourite things ……………:doublethumb

Give me 2 hours Doug and I'll be there …………..:cheers

How does one resign from this group Alan ? …………………..I want to leave on the grounds of mental and visual torture.:roll::roll:


'Petermac
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I've just enjoyed reading this thread as horses play a big part in my period setting and having just received 'Great Western Horse Power' as a 60th birthday present I can certainly recommend it for anyone who needs to know more. I'm still working my way through it and it will be an often used reference book for some time to come.

Jim
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