A shelf layout to fit in the closet

Hey everyone,
Im currently working on ballasting the layout, and I have most of the ballast down. 
I’ve applied watered down glue and dish soap to it twice now, but the ballast is still very delicate. It’s been 24 hours, the ballast is staying in place, unless it gets touched. Kind of similar to wet sand. So, not ideal. 
Any ideas why this would happen? I don’t remember this happening other times I’ve ballasted. I’m using Elmer’s school glue. 
Any tips appreciated 

I assume Elmers School Glue is some form of PVA Darius………………

I have an idea that the dilution rate depends on the original strength of the glue - start with a low-bond PVA, dilute it say 50/50 and you end up with a glue that takes forever to set.

As you've done plenty of ballasting in the past, I'm guessing you soaked everything well and you said you used a tension breaker so I can only think your mix is too weak.  "School Glue" sounds as if it's meant for kids so will be easily washable before it sets and won't bond particularly strongly even when dry.

Also, what's your weather like ?  If it's cold and damp, it will take longer to set.  Even in 'normal' summer conditions, I find it takes a minimum of 24 hours before it's properly set.

Can you try a small test piece on a bit of board somewhere using less water to make a stronger mix and see how that behaves ………….?

My guess is you've over diluted it …………………………..

Thanks for the advice Peter, I’ve been diluting it about 50-50, just barely enough water to lower the surface tension. 
Yeah I used water and dish shop before hand to break the tension as well, thankfullly I have about 10 different types of glue so I redid it again this evening with wood glue instead of the school glue. I probably have used white glue in the past but not specifically school glue. I didn’t think about there being any difference. The school glue is labeled as washable so I assume that the water is making it almost pointless. 
We’ll see how the wood glue works!

D_Will said

Thanks for the advice Peter, I’ve been diluting it about 50-50, just barely enough water to lower the surface tension. 
Yeah I used water and dish shop before hand to break the tension as well, thankfullly I have about 10 different types of glue so I redid it again this evening with wood glue instead of the school glue. I probably have used white glue in the past but not specifically school glue. I didn’t think about there being any difference. The school glue is labeled as washable so I assume that the water is making it almost pointless. 
We’ll see how the wood glue works!

From “Post #293,048”, 14th January 2026, 3:37 pm

I have used diluted wood glue (PVA) with a drop or two of dishwashing detergent for the gravel roads and platforms. It takes almost a day to dry up.

Cheers,
Claus

Hi Darius

I agree with Peter, if it's cold damp weather it's going to take longer to dry whatever glue you've used.
 

Thanks for the advice we will see if it works! 
Appreciate the wealth of knowledge you all have and share. 
Darius 

You were all right - the glue was my issue. I used wood glue and it’s dried hard as a rock. But it was also hard to clean off the tracks 😅. Thanks again. 
Installed my caboose industries point throws rather than wire in tube, and thought I’d show off my Christmas and birthday gifts - Hornby j52 and a terrier. Purchased through the BRMNA from a former exhibition layout. 
I’m enjoying both of them, and they run quite well, I was just suprised at how small the terrier is! 

Had some fun the other evening and got all my engines out! (Except the ruston) 
After 8 years of being “in repair” I finally finished fixing the Caledonian single. Still not the best runner but I think it’s good enough! 

  In other news, I’m working on a level crossing with inset wood and I nicked the top of the rail with a blade 🫣. Hopefully that doesn’t cause problems later! I’ll do some testing tonight and find out. I say testing - not playing, because that might be considered simple childish nonsense 🙄. 

Certainly, you are not short of motive power!

Cheers,
Claus

"I was just suprised at how small the terrier is! "

Yep, I've got two of them and they are tiny. It was interesting getting a sound decoder, speaker and stay alive caps in them.

peterm said

"I was just suprised at how small the terrier is! "

Yep, I've got two of them and they are tiny. It was interesting getting a sound decoder, speaker and stay alive caps in them.

From “Post #293,071”, 21st January 2026, 10:26 am

Where do you put the decoder, speaker and stay alive? Front or back?

 

Thankfully I’m only using dc so I don’t have to figure out which end to put the chips in 😅 

Yes claus, I’ve got a larger collection than I thought! Though I also last night realized that I’ve been into this hobby for more than half of my short life by now….

After I completed the ballasting, I had reached the farthest point in my modelling that I had done before. I’ve never made it this far before, and for a few days I was lost and didn’t know what to move onto next…
I decided to start on the level crossing and road, made from matchsticks and spackle filler. 
Then I began some experiments with a grassmat that my wife got me for Christmas. I was worried it would look unrealistic but after cutting to size, spraying it with water and then pinning it down, it makes a rather good base! Especially for the small areas I need. I have some static grass and other greenery that I plan on putting on top, to make it look more overgrown. 
Then I mixed some sifted soil and sand (same sand as the road) to make a ground cover for the back, and edges of the grassmat. I imagine the back will be extra bushy and overgrown. 
Then I realized I really needed to figure out the watermill before I could do any scenics in that area, so I starting experimenting with that area and made a mock up mill. It’s a bit large but it’s based roughly on the borrowdale mill. 

Quick questions of advice from you pros- 
What glue do you use to attach static grass on top of ground cover or on top of another layer of static grass? 
And what method do you use to attach ground cover in general? I’m currently using the same method as I do with ballast, water and dish soap sprayed, with watered down glue overtop, it works ok but I don’t love the texture that method leaves. 
I want to say I’m enjoying scenic stuff, but I am finding it a bit tedious at this point….!

I have no personal experience with static grass Darius but, from what I've seen online, they seem to paint neat PVA on the area to be grassed, stick the earth pin in there and static away.  They suggest you only do a small area at a time, presumably before the glue 'skins' over.  I suspect dilute glue won't have the grip of neat glue and may well soak up the 'grass' thus making it flop a bit.  As I said, I've no personal experience but that would seem to make sense…………………

Your ballasting looks neat - once it's been dirtied …………………………..remember, steam engines were dirty beasts and rain didn't wash the ballast that clean.   

Got a feeling I bought some spray glue specifically for static grass, I'll have a look around to see if I've still got it and who makes it Darius.
 

Found them in the garage.

The base layer is probably just diluted wood glue anyway, but the spray was good when gluing more grass on top of grass.

Although these are Peco, I suspect other makes are available. Woodland scenics must do something similar.

For what it's worth, my attempt at static grass

009 Test Layout – Your Model Railway

 

Thank you ed and Peter for the response, I appreciate it! 
Ed, you’ve really tried every scale, what are you working on these days? 

I ended up buying some spray glue (although not modelling specific stuff) and I’ll try that in a small section when I have the chance. Yes Peter, I think I’ll try a paint wash over the ballast. It’s very bright!!