Collett & Hawksworth Locomotives , Ian Allan

Hi All.  As a Southern fan, I recently ordered ( mistakenly ) two GWR Locos . I never read anything ? Anyhow they are nice Locos in BR Black , and I have decided to keep them. I was looking through the book, and found an interesting formation, a two car train, both look like brake cars, one with a Clerestory Roof and one with a regular roof.It may be the photo? but both carriages look a similar length with only 4 compartments a piece, would any member know the “ Diagram Numbers “ of these carriages ???  Best wishes. Kevin

I rather think we'll need a bit more info on this one Kevin. Are these GWR coaches and what book are you looking at and which page, as someone will probably have a copy. Also does the book say anything about the photo?

Have you also found anything similar online, which yu can post a link to?

Bill

Edit: Are the coaches 4 or 6 wheelers or bogie stock?

Hi Bill. Thank you. The books title was in the subject “ Collett & Hawksworth Locomotives “.The page 74, I think the Carriages are 4 wheeled but the photos aren’t that sharp. Best wishes. Kevin

I thought they may have been the shorter 4 or 6 wheelers by your four compartment description Kevin. Both these types are readily buildable from various kits. Ratio still do the 4 wheelers, including an attractive Brake 3rd, but the kits require very careful preparation of parts, particularly the remarkable fragile underframes, which are easily broken, so best upgraded with brass or plastic rod.

However, all 4 and 6 wheeled GWR passenger coaching stock was obsolete and scrapped well before the days of BR, so would not have been seen with your BR locos.

However, remembering Rule No.1 and the fact you already have some Triang Clerestories, you can simply paint them in Engineering or Departmental black and run them on your planks as you wish and have some fun.

Cheers,

Bill

Hi Bill.  Here is the ISBN for the book, 0 7110 0869 8                            Code CE/0679.     Best wishes. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

The first looks to be a Dean clerestory 8 wheeler, 4 compartment, third brake, the second could be a 4-wheeler (different roof profile) but I suspect it is an 8 wheeler shortened by the angle. Volume 1 of Russell will give more details. The Ratio kits are not ideal for this.

There are no exact rtr models of Dean clerestory coaches. You really need to cut and shut the Triang/Hornby ones to get close, or get 4mm scale sides from the BGS or kits from Worsley Works

Nigel

Hi Nigel  Thank you for your reply. As far as Triang/ Hornby RTR are concerned, do you mean the ones I described in my thread? Because I have two brakes, but no drawings, and no idea about Bogie or wheels. Best wishes Kevin 

Hi Kevin,

Great Western Coaches Volume 1 by Jim Russell has 4mm scale diagrams for most Dean stock. I sold my copy so I can't help you with a diagram. The Triang/Hornby clerestory models are generic, you will have to cut and shut to get the right length. The bogies need to be replaced along with Mansell wheels if you want a reasonably accurate model for the 1880's - 1900's, although by the 1930's they had been replaced by newer designs and steel wheels. The Broad Gauge Society GWS) has more accurate etches for the sides, as does Worsley Works (which is the way I would go, 21 different clerestories, usually the sides, roof, floor and ends). You might want to consider an old or even new autotrailer instead. The old Triang/Hornby model models are not bad for the money.

Nigel

Does that book include the Diagram E39 Falmouth Coupe clerestories?

Hi Brendan,

Memory says yes. Interesting model with that nice rear viewing window. Worsley does a kit to order. Tricomposite brake no less. Passing resemblance to Old Slow Coach. Bashable from some Triangs.

Nigel

More than a passing resemblance - she is that very diagram of coach, rear viewing window and all. Seems that book will be quite worth looking into, I've had patchy luck finding references and diagrams for clerestories elsewhere.

Hi Brendan,

Well worth having Jim Russell's books, he was a GWR man and a modeler, and collected an enormous quantity of photo's. He was also involved with OPC in making the diagrams available. What is nice is that most of the plans and diagrams are reproduced in 4mm scale in the books. Along with a photograph normally enough to do a scratch or bash build. Easiest way of course with an E39 is a brace of Triangs. Saw a pair recently.

Nigel