Everything live even when using insulated joiners??

Hi Mike            I dug out my meter, and the digits were jumping about?? I don't know if the battery needs replacing?? or W H Y .In the meantime I will try it with a battery and buzzer(as it is just to prove a short??) that should prove it.  all the best  Kevin

[user=1801]Passed Driver[/user] wrote:

Hi Petermac                          Now you have got me going?? When I converted the points as per Peco's leaflet.I cut out the fine wires, and chopped off the loose ends, and then soldered a piece of wire between the stock rail and the blade……………………………

Did you only cut out the wires marked "snip these two wires" in this photo Kevin ?

If you also cut out those marked in orange where the frog is, that's a problem !!

Using the "bond" wires (shown in yellow) as the droppers as well, is no problem.  That's what I do. :thumbs

There's obviously something we can't spot here.  Assuming your point isn't faulty (highly unlikely in spite of my earlier comments), if you've done exactly what Mike's shown, it should work………………..:hmm  You are sure it's an electro-frog point I suppose …………:roll:

Hi Petermac.  Fear Not, "The Long Thin Wire" is intact, and soldered to a length of wire which is in turn soldered to the middle contact of the S P D T Switch (Wire in tube Slide Switch ) which not only throws the point, but, changes the polarity, in one "Fell Swoop ".     all the best Kevin

[user=1801]Passed Driver[/user] wrote:

Hi Petermac.  Fear Not, "The Long Thin Wire" is intact, and soldered to a length of wire which is in turn soldered to the middle contact of the S P D T Switch (Wire in tube Slide Switch ) which not only throws the point, but, changes the polarity, in one "Fell Swoop ".     all the best Kevin

Kevin. Make sure the frog wire is not shorting out anywhere… that the bare section is not touching anything metal… I always slip a length of heatshrink on it before connecting it to anything else, using just the last 10mm for a soldered connection…

Talking of heatshrink… have you checked all joints to make sure none are touching or shorting out anywhere?

Also… it's not unknown for those slide switches you are using to be faulty… not throwing properly… did you check it before installing? As we're groping in the dark so to speak, maybe worth changing it for another… after checking it works of course…..

Okay Kevin… moving on, and double checking you've got everything as it should be.

The following images (again courtesy of Petermac) show how and why you change an electrofrog point for DCC usage… hopefully they are self explanatory and it maybe worth saving them somewhere so you have a reference point for the next time you do one…









Worth using your circuit tester to check continuity as shown in images C & D with the point set as described… should show if the wiring is amiss somehwere… eg all red lines show a complete circuit and all blue ones do the same…
PS: DON'T FORGET…  POWER OFF WHEN USING A CIRCUIT TESTER:

You can't be doing anything drastically wrong as you've got one point working correctly… just a matter of identifying the problem….. Who'd be a troubleshooter eh…

Hope this helps and don't forget to save them…..

Hi Mike       Looking at your latest diagram, which is slightly different from the original c/o Gary in Sydney that I had been following??Your diagram shows "Two Wires" one going to the Switch and one going to the Bus.If I fit that additional wire would that cure the Stalling problem??              all the best Kevin
UPDATE!                  I have tried a different approach ?? thinking about it, I wired up a "VERY" short piece of track and set it between two sets of points and it seems to have made it okay, but, like a twit I also dug out another "Y Point" so it is not cut and dry??                             all the best  Kevin

Kevin, the switch needs three wires, the centre of the switch to the frog & the other two to the two bus wires - the modified photo shows the bus wires not only going to the stock rails as normal but also onto the switch.

Kevin, see if this helps
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm

INFORMATION #2-17:  What is a DCC Friendly Turnout?

Hi Ron                     Yes! I get that, and on my "Plank" I have done that, but, the latest post from Mike shows an additional wire.That additional wire to the Bus, from the "Stock Rail" to the "Bus" , together with the wire from the "Bus" to the "Switch" is different fromthe plan c/o Gary, that I had been following.                 all the best  Kevin

All stock rails as well as normal track rails are connected to the bus plus to the switch - how you actually get the switch wire connected, either to the stock rail or direct to the bus is electrically the same.
the link I quoted http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm
shows both the switch & stock rail connected to the bus

Not having seen Gary's plan, I do not know if he showed if the stock rail was also connected to the bus.

Hi Ron                   Gary's plan shows the Frog connected to the middle terminal of the slide switch (just as I have done)                 But, the Blue wire goes direct from the slide switch to the inside rail (just as I have done) where the red wire goes to the outside rail.                                                  and that is "Directly To in both cases"                 all the best  Kevin

Can you post Gary's plan or point me to it ?

Kevin, if you can scan your drawing of turnouts with insulators marked in and what wires go where, then you can even attach that scanned drawing which you saved as a JPG file, into your post - see the attachment at box at the bottom of the Post Reply screen

 

 

[user=1801]Passed Driver[/user] wrote:

Hi Nigel                  I think that I have put Firefox on my Laptop?? But, it is the next stage of the operation that I'm not sure about, that is the transfer from Google Chrome apps to Firefox, and I keep getting messages about "It? is not my default browser".. all the best  Kevin

 

Now you have confused me - transferring Google Chrome Apps to Firefox ??? 

 they are independent - but what you can do is transfer all of your website favourites from one browser to another. Firefox when you install it, asks you if you want to bring across favourites from other browsers   or read this https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/import-bookmarks-google-chrome

To make Firefox the default browser, under Tools Options General   it tells you exactly how to do so

Hi Ron                      I have forwarded Gary's plan to you, hope it goes okay            all the best Kevin

Yes got it & replied. but ideally a copy of what you have done either as a photo into the gallery & thus posted into here or as an attachment, would help us all understand what you have actually done.

[user=1801]Passed Driver[/user] wrote:

Hi Mike       Looking at your latest diagram, which is slightly different from the original c/o Gary in Sydney that I had been following??Your diagram shows "Two Wires" one going to the Switch and one going to the Bus.If I fit that additional wire would that cure the Stalling problem??              all the best Kevin

Hi Kevin.

I think possibly the only difference between my diagram and Gary's would be where I attach the dropper to the point… I tend to do one joint incorporating the bonding connection, the lead to the switch and the dropper to the bus… others connect the bus elsewhere

Ruling out any problem(s) with the point Kevin, if you wire it as shown a loco should not stall as it crosses the point. I have 23 electrofrogs on my layout all wired this way… I have no stalling problems.

As an observation;-
This problem is causing you a tremendous amount of hassle and timewasting. Would it not be a wise move to buy a replacement point… wire it as shown and see what happens…

A few years ago I used wire in tube controlled in exactly the same way as you've done… same slide switches etc… only once had a problem when I had a switch not connecting correctly… worked one way but not the other so, also worth trying a new switch…..

Hi Mike            That is a good point, that you have made, when I purchased the slide switches I realised that some spares?? would come in handy to cover all eventualities, with my soldering:oops: and melting the switch?? . Fitting that extra wire would not be a problem?? but, I was thinking is the problem caused by wiring :"Multiple Points" close together as in a Puzzle Yard?? and would either "Extra Wires to the Toe" of the Second point or to a short piece of track(to save wrecking the point) between a pair of points solve the problem??  all the best  Kevin

It matters not one jot how many points you have in a "ladder" Kevin. ;-)

You will need an electrical feed (track power) to the toe of EVERY point in the row - not just the first ………………:roll:

You will need an IRJ on each and every frog rail………

You will need a method of changing the polarity of the frog on each and every point ……………….

You don't need an extra bit of track between the points - the frog end of one point can happily butt up to the toe end of the next one - and so on for as many points as you care to add.  As they butt up, frog end to toe end, you'll see that one rail will have a metal joiner and the other will have an IRJ - that's why you must electrically feed each point separately - the current will pass via the metal joiner to the next point but it will stop at the IRJ, thus leaving that rail electrically dead.

Trying another switch is a good idea - if you've over heated it soldering, it could have damaged the gubbins inside ……….;-)

Hi Petermac                 The reason for the short piece of track was rather than risk melting a sleeper on the "Toe of the Point".As for "I R J's" I always use them on"Live Frogs". And even though Peco sell and recommend "Pre wired Rail Joiners"?? most modellersbelieve (as I do ) that it is better to solder the wire direct to the rail(even though I ignored my own belief's with the short piece of track)but I will leave it in place for now??                 all the best  Kevin