I have an epson all in one and use waterproof ink in re-fillable cartridges,been no trouble at all, I also agree with Max about inkjet being better for photo work
:thumbs;-):cool:

Hi Mike

Your problem sounds like a toner fusing issue rather than a paper issue. Have you seen any print-out from another printer of the same model too see if that is the same as yours? My business laser printer is an A3 Ricoh and we looked at a few before we were happy with quality and price. That said for presentation image printing we use Canon inkjet printers because the quality and colour matching is better.

I typically print my Scalescenes sheets on the laser though… much, much cheaper, and I'm going to seal them and weather them etc anyway. 

I have an EPSON 3900 inkjet approx 10 yrs old.

 Apart from, not very often, maintenance including head cleaning no problems.

  Cheers

  Ian 

Thanks for the suggestions. I suspected the toner was the problem, but at around £250.00 for a new set it will have to be matt varnish. Ironic really, when one of the main reasons for buying a laser was to do away with sealing inkjet paper with varnish.
Ho hum, when the toner runs out I'll have an expensive paperweight sitting on my desk
I have a friend who's always tinkering around with computer stuff, he might have a set of toners kicking around. A long shot though

I thought I'd better update my views on printers.

My Samsung laser, while still functioning has been producing rubbish prints for some while - black and colour streaks on the page.  I tried cleaning the imaging drum, which was dirty, but things didn't improve much.   Since my toner had just about run out and the printer is several years old, I thought this was a good time to see what technology has delivered for us.  My old printer cost ~ $200 and toner was costing about $250 for a set.

I went to Staples (Bureau en gros here) and had a chat with a very knowledgeable chap (you don't see that much anymore).  I was surprised and disappointed to find that:

1) Samsung had pulled out of the store

2) Most of the machines are HP with colour laser going for around ~$500 - ouch!

However, my main requirement was reliable printing.  I had some bad experiences with inkjet in the past where I might get just a handful of pages before the ink dried out.

I was shown something new in the inkjet line - what HP call "Officejet".  The fellow said that this printer uses oil based ink which doesn't dry out quite so readily as the usual water based ink.  I also discussed my needs wrt transfers.  I said that my Samsung had trouble pulling in the heavier weight decal sheets and he told me that the HP printer is designed to use quite heavy card – heavier than transfer sheets.

So, I was sold and picked up the HP OfficeJet Pro 8720 for an amazing $200!  I also picked up a set of XL cartridges that actually cost more than the printer.

HP have a program where you pay a monthly fee (from $3 to $11 per month depending on your usage) and they automatically send you fresh ink before yours runs out.  I must do the sums on this before signing up.

http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-officejet-pro-8720-all-in-one-printer

The printer is wireless so I can put it out of the way instead of mounting it precariously on the top shelf of my credenza.

I haven't used it yet but the test sheets look very good.  The proof of this particular pudding will be when I make some transfers.

John

I've experienced the same "dry ink" problems with inkjets many times in the past John but couldn't justify the high cost of laser printers - or rather the replacement toners - so persevered.

I bought an HP "Envy" wireless printer a couple of years ago and am very pleased with it.  As ever, the cost of cartridges is eye watering but to date, none have dried out and it does a good job of printing.  I don't really test it too much - Scalescenes prints being the toughest job it gets.  When doing those, I do print off as many as I'm going to need for each job, plus a few "spares".  I have had colour shifts if I print further copies later on - even from the same cartridges …………..:roll::roll:

The only real problem was with the Scalescenes large overall roof.  Everything was set to print at 100% but I got some "out of scale" prints on a few reprints.  As this was for the metal beams, it was annoying because I didn't realise until I'd cut them all out and laminated them ………….:twisted:

I did some printing this morning for a Scalescenes kit.  I was very impressed - excellent quality and fast too, just a few seconds per page.

This could be a winner. :cheers

John

Mike, I use these cartridges, considerably cheaper than the £250 you quote, my printer is the OKI C531dn, works out at 0.5 pence per page if you get the high capacity ones (5,000 pages)

http://www.cartridgesave.co.uk/toner-cartridges/Oki/C531dn.html

I bought a Fuji Xerox CM 225 fw recently.  It is a wireless fax/scanner/copier/laser printer.  It cost me about A$440.00.

The toner cartridges cost about A$120.00 compared to ink jet at about A$35.00, but they make more than that many times the number of copies.

The print quality is excellent.  I made many sheets for my recent warehouse and the colour never shifted.  I don't need to use 200 gsm paper any more, as the toner creates a sturdy plastic laminate on the surface of ordinary 80 gsm copy paper.

The decals are excellent.

I don't have to waterproof the sheets any more and they stick well to my MDF buildings just using the UHU glue stick.

Being wireless, it allows Wendy to print off her stuff from her iPad iMac or what ever she chooses.

The only down side so far is that it is very big.  460 mm x 420 mm and 400 mm tall  So it takes up some desk space.

The Fuji help desk were fantastic answering my dumb questions.

One thing that I did learn is that Windows 10 has a very sophisticated management system which shuts down drivers which haven't been used for about half an hour.  I rarely have to scan, but I need to do a restart before I do scan anything to switch the driver back on.

Scans default to .PDF so I need to remember to select .jpeg as I set up, if that's what I want.

All in all, an excellent machine.  :thumbs

Sounds like just the thing Max.  I would have gone with laser again but there was nothing at a reasonable price.  Mine was, I think, $150 off so hard to pass up.

Oil based ink plus the larger capacity cartridge runs to between $50 and $60 each - not cheap but still half that of laser.

It was the thing about being able to take heavier weight card - ie decal sheets, that pushed my final button.  I have several projects in mind but the Samsung was frustrating.

John

Hi John

Like yourself I have gone down the HP route on my last printer, and was generally very happy with it, with a couple of caveats…

Colour profile - HP supplies colour profiles based on thier paper types, so its guess work for which profile to use for non HP papers.

Paper path - being of the type with a builtin scanner, the paper tray is on the bottom, so the paper has to bend through 180 degrees.

HP printer ink costs - well actually any own brand printer ink costs.

I started to get print issues - looked like a blocked head on the cyan, and followed the trouble shooting procedures, plus a lot of others from the net, and eventually I got a clean head.  But here came the rub, it used so much ink on the level 1, 2 & 3 cleaning and the heads were removed for cleaning, it wanted to perform an alignment check / calibration, but would keep failing. Stage one answer - replace all cartridges (£75), if stage 1 failed, replace heads (£120), if this fails contact authorised dealer for repair - cost unknown.

Cut my losses and decided to buy another printer. I was tempted to buy an epsom with the large external tanks, these are condiderably dearer than a standard cartridge printer as they have to make the profit on the printer not the cartridges, but for heavy use are very cheap to run. However, I ended up getting another HP officejet this time a 7612 - A3 scanner copier etc, again capable of duplex printing, but this time it also has a rear paper feed which will allow a straight paper path for printing card.
But from day one I have used compatible inks, full set of XL cartridges £13 c/w £70 for originals, I'm already on my 3rd set of ink, so iof the world will end (as hinted by HP if I use non-HP cartridges), I've already saved enough money to buy its replacement.

Paul

PS - Ink jets need to be used on a regular basis, otherwise they dry out, as my mother finds out each year when she prints her labels for the christmas cards.

Well Paul, I've only had it a couple of days.  I have printed out a Scalescenes kit with impressive results.

The ink is oil based so I hope that it will stay viable for a reasonable time.  Also HP have an ink replacement program.

If I have mechanical issues after some time, these things are at a price point where a new one is a good alternative.  These days I don't think you can expect things to last a great deal of time (my stove is still trucking after nearly 30 years - good ol' days) and, in fact, that wouldn't make sense given that technology is making leaps and bounds.

John

Hi John,

When you get a chance could you see what it's like printing decals and whether they need a protective coat before applying? From memory most lasers don't as the color is fused. Still leaves the old issue of white though.

My recent experiences with regular ink-jet systems (water based) is that the printer is as disposable as the cartridges (and often more expensive). For the most part useless for decals as most colors are translucent and allow the background color to bleed through. Bit like the intensity on overhead projector sheets.

Nigel

Two options for white and pale colours when printing your own decals, either use a white backed decal stock, or if using clear backed then paint the surface white before applying decals.

Quite right Mike, white backed decals are what I think are needed.  The drawback is that you need to have a surround to the decal that matches the model colour - OK if that's black but a bit more involved if a specific railway colour.

Nigel, from bitter experience I know that decal sheets need to be treated with that decal spray stuff - it even says so in the instructions (TrimFilm).  I tried to do a sheet once on a friends ink jet.  The print was clean and crisp but, with nothing to key to, the ink ran.

Running decal sheets through a laser means that the drum temperature must be reduced, the recommendation is to use transparency setting.  Nevertheless my experience was that the drum was still too hot causing the print to smear.  Of course I was using a cheap Samsung - you gets what you pays for.  Hoping this will work better.

My plan is to make my own lining for 0-4-4T and 0-6-4T when the time comes.  This is a simple red line on black but with some radii that might not be covered on the HMRS sheet.  I'll use Powerpoint to draw it out, using a scan of the model to get everything to match.

John

I have an oldish HP Photosmart and it works fine on card. However cartridges are less common, and genuine HP cost a lot so i went down the re-fill route. Black is straight forward but colour is a bit messy.
What I have learnt.
Refill the cartridge as soon as one colour obviously runs out. First time I tried it it was with an old cartridge that had been sitting in the draw, disaster.
After the last refill into a cartridge after it had run out went OK but results were streakiy. So I went out and bought a non HP brand cartridge that did not cost too much. Next day ran the printer and found it was working OK. Obviously leaving the cartridge to settle for 24 hours after refilling sorted it. At least now I have a spare colour cartridge.

Not sure about absolute colour quality - but it more than good enough for my needs.

David

Hi John,

From what I've read it's possible to print with a laser onto decal paper and then to directly apply the decal. Finish off with a coat of acrylic varnish to protect as usual. The problems I've encountered with decal paper and inkjet printers is that finishing off the decal print with a coat of varnish to seal it from water means that a) it's visible, even after a coat of varnish (I use the Krylon range), and b) decal set (to get it to conform to planks, rivets and the like) does not work that well on a coat of varnish.

Will oil-based inkjet decals still require a protective coat? In which case the decals are excellent for smooth surfaces and where the decal fills the available space (i.e. the side of a cab, the panel, etc.). Otherwise they can stick out like a sore thumb (bin there, dun that, many, many times) unless the decal is trimmed to within 0.1mm or so of the edge of the decal. Even then it's pretty obvious that something has been stuck on if the surface is riveted/planked. Although thinking about it that's pretty much like the prototype (paint job or these days a very large decal).

Professional decals are using tapered edges to the backing film these days to minimize this problem. Not feasible with DIY decals, especially after a protective coat of varnish.

Pigment-based inks (which are "nano-encapsulated", whatever that means, presumably an oil-in water emulsion) are supposed to be water resistant (as opposed to dye-based inks), and might just stick to decal backing film and transfer without the need for a protective coating during application (as the water evaporates the nanoparticles release the pigment which forms a layer, bit like regular acrylic paint, which is definitely water resistant when dry). Having said that, photo ink-jet printers seem to use dyes and pigments that are water resistant when using photo-paper. What they would be like on decal film is what interests me as I have some decal work coming up and a new printer would be welcome.

White - oh for an ALPS in good working order.

Nigel

Yes David, going the refill route did cross my mind.  I've seen the stores here and there.  Don't know if they do oil based though.

I have mentioned a couple of times that HP have a cartridge replacement program.  You pay a monthly fee and they automatically send you ink as yours is being depleted - all through the interthingy.  Clever stuff.

Nigel, there's a lot of terra incognita for me regarding transfers at this time.  I have made a few which have worked for me. 

When printing from laser I sprayed the print with decalcote (I think that's what it's called) to fix the toner.  Don't know if it was necessary but it didn't hurt.

It's always good to let others find the problems.  I'm not anticipating any transfer work in the immediate future.  I've been mulling the possibility of using transfers for complex coach lining like the MR panelled livery on early LMS coaches.  I did use transfers successfully on a rake of LSWR coaches (on my workbench thread).

John

I bought some decal sheets from the local art shop.  I didn't change any heat settings, I just whacked them through.

I didn't have to spray them.  Laser printing melts plastic on to the page.

I did make sure I was applying them to gloss paint.  I used Micro Set and Micro Sol.  Then when the decals had moulded themselves to the model, I sprayed with Humbrol Acrylic Varnish or Tamiya Flat Clear.

No problems.

The Scalescenes sheets are also very robust and take weathering powders very well.

If your printer is old and the cartridges are still working it is worth trying refills. the kits are quite cheap. I have noticed them for sale in Tescos and Sainsburys so if you are up for a bit of cheap experimentation have a go. No idea what the inks are made from, might be on the packaging.

David