[user=422]Geoff R[/user] wrote:

………………………………………………………………………….I was never categorised as a "completer/finisher". ……………….

And I hope things have improved since those days Geoff ………………:roll::roll:

Here's the first of two double slips.



There is .5 mm styrene under the turnout, right across to keep it level with the fillers under the throw bars.



The switches had to be installed after the turnouts were mounted.

The white globules are PVA as before.

It's important to remember that the switches are changing the polarity of the frogs furthest from them - as are the switches for the LEDs operating the LEDs furthest from them.

The unit has been tested and is working correctly.  Five hours work.

Great, neat work again Max.
Everytime I wire a double slip, which to be honest, isn't that often, it takes a good few minutes head scratching and experimenting to work out the wiring and which way round to throw which switch for which route.

Thanks, Warren.  I've kept all of my old diagrams, so it wasn't too hard.  What impressed me was that I just took pot luck with the switch wiring polarity and fluked it the first time.

More very tidy work, Max. Having fitted many of these myself now, I have used the simple rule that the micro switch contact which is closed is at the opposite end to the position of the point motor. This always means that the contacts for the frog switch have to be wired opposite to the rails. We can see that in your photo as you have red to the rails nearest us, (viewed from below) but red to the microswitch contacts furthest from us. This works regardless of which way around you fit the micro switches to the motor. (I think!)

Thanks, Geoff.  I'll remember that for the second one.  :cool:

The second double slip.



20% improvement.  4 hours.

Wow ! That is really neat. Only if I could do the same instead of making my efforts look lake a dyslexic spider planning his web !


Cheers, Gary.

Thanks, Gary.  It's reasonably easy sitting at the bench.  :cool:

Honestly Max,

here I am just about convinced myself to go DCC and you stick that on the page saying it only took 4 hours this time.

would you care to have a crack at a show and tell for Nuclear Fission or something.

Thank goodness I've managed to only need one. :???: so neat, so neat

Kevan

 

Thanks, Kevan.  DC or DCC, if you use electrofrog turnouts you need to switch the frogs.   ;-)

Ah… And that is the thing isn't it.

I have yet to bite the bullet and take one of my N gauge turnouts to task and wire up the frogs for switching. They are so blanking small.

I currently have 15 on my layout and have very little trouble with them, an 57xx or a 14xx will stall at very slow speeds but that's about it. I never seem to get the wheels shorting out the closure and side rails either.

To me, it seems like a lot of bother and additional expense to switch the frogs.

Can you suggest the benefits of doing so… Would the short wheelbase locos no longer stall?

Cheers
Marty

It's just another example of me showing off, Marty.  Initially it was because it's a shunting layout and I was using a little switcher.  The other thing is that I'm using Code 75 and the range of insulfrog turnouts is limited.  So I learned to use electrofrog.  As you can see, it's not that difficult.

My boxcars all have decoders which operate the couplers, so in theory I can uncouple them while they are sitting on a turnout.

None of the above makes any real sense, I know.  It's like asking me why I'm fitting 32 Block detectors for RailRoad & Co.

More showing off, I guess.

When I was retrenched I went from a challenging engineering job to a not-very-challenging-job.  I find this hobby stretches me and keeps the leetle grey cells from shrinking.
Well, that's my excuse - and I'm sticking to it. 

Sorry to hijack your thread Max but Marty did ask what the advantage of using electrofrog points is. Nothwithstanding your excellent point modules it can be done very simply using either an add-on Peco polarity switch or by using Seep PM1 motors which have an in-built polarity change-over facility. Likewise Cobalt motors have a similar in-built polarity change-over function.

Getting back to Marty's question though, the main advantage is that you no longer have to rely on getting a good electrical contact between the point blade and the stock rail. This is, after all, just a touching surface contact and if either of the surfaces is dirty, there is a chance that the frog will actually end up completely dead. The more likely scenario, particularly if you're using DCC, is that the DCC signal will become corrupted and you lose control of the loco. By fitting a separate power supply lead to the frog you completely eliminate any reliance on the blade/stock rail connection and you're always sure of having the frog set to the correct polarity and the DCC signal being 'clean'.

Back to you Max.

Thanks Max and Trevor,

Sorry Max, one more…
The majority of my point motors are seep and are wired up in preparation for frog switching, just haven't tried to put the wires on the turnouts yet. It means some horrible gymnastics under the base board… Which is why I'm following this thread with interest.
Do electro frogs require the contact between switch and stock rails to maintain current?
I'm DC too BTW.

[user=19]Marty[/user] wrote:

Thanks Max and Trevor,

Do electro frogs require the contact between switch and stock rails to maintain current?
I'm DC too BTW.

Hi again Marty.

No. the power to, and polarity of the frog is completely independant of the contact between the baldes and stock rails.

Should anyone need it, I have a home made  Seep wiring diagram for a double slip


and here is a jig for centering them during wiring



As has already been said, the switch on the left hand motor change the polarity on the right-hand frog and vice-versa.
and—
After a great deal of frustration with the switching for the double slip …. I think I have hit on an unlikely work round for the D/slip as follows.The average Peco turnout moves sufficiently far to allow a Seep motor to switch successfully, i.e. there is enough travel for the sprung wiper to travel between the two points indicated by the arrows below.The double slip permits barely half the distance of travel and thus the wiper on the switch arm only just makes contact with the appropriate contact. By allowing the motor to move beneath the board by an extra fraction of a millimetre, better contact is assured, and 100/100 good contacts were achieved.If you are having contact problems with Seeps, I'd suggest backing off the mounting screws a little.N.B. This only improves matters if you are operating them electrically, should you have to move them 'handraulically' from above then it won't help.


Sorry about the hijack, Max,
Doug

That's a very interesting tip Doug and I will have to try it out when I install the double slip on my new layout.

Another possibility which occurs to me is to file the contact washers to a slightly oval shape or even just make them slighly smaller overall. Hmm. Will have to give this more thought.

On my old layout which was dismantled so I could extend this one, I had Tortoise motors.  However the steel frame prohibits me easily using Cobalt or Tortoise again this time.  I've never used solenoid motors before, so I thought I'd have a go at it.  I could have used Seeps or aero servos, but I thought I'd have a lash at the dreaded Peco.

Wiring turnouts is in two parts.  Powering the motors and switching the frogs.

I don't have a problem driving the solenoids as I'm using the DCC Concepts AD-S8 units.  These combine a capacitor discharge unit (CDU), with a decoder.  They are mounted on a board in gangs of 8, which works out well as I have 16 turnout motors on the layout.  The S8 needs no power supply (unlike the LS 150 I used last time), and is connected directly to the DCC track bus.

So, it comes down to wiring the PL 15 DPDT switches to switch the frogs.  It isn't vital to switch the frogs as Sol has "dead" frogs on his layout.  All of his locos are long enough to span the frogs, but 0 6 0 and 0 4 0 locos often can't reach across the unpowered frog rails, so if he had any of those it would be different.

The moving rails are powered through the pivots, so there is no need to worry.  The droppers are soldered to the rails in the gap underneath and the pivots are part of those rails.  I'm going to do a more detailed thread on the finer points of the builds (when I get a round tuit ;-) ).

The LEDs are just a help for programming in RR&Co.  So I'm only using half of the PL 15 (SPDT).

Switching the frogs for a double slip is just a matter of getting your head around it.  The switch on the motor operates the frog at the opposite side of the turnout.  As with a standard turnout, the moving contact in the switch is connected to the frog and the outside contacts are connected to the rails.

Never worry about hijacking my threads as it makes them more interesting to read later on.  I'm the worst offender at hijacking, so I can't say anything.  :roll:

OK  I've been shunted on to a siding; but I'm back . . .



They're all done!

Now to make the first pit . . .



The styrene is cut away and 30 mm walls are introduced.



The module is test fitted.



The top sheet of 6 mm MDF is slid into position.



. . . and the module is dropped into place.

It doesn't look like a great fit, but it's all just sitting there.  Once the screws go in, it should all sit down flat.  :roll:

Hopefully that will make it clearer.