Monthly Project - February 2012

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Constructing Operational Signals.

Thats fantastic Geoff.Thanks a million.
That magnifier looks great. Never seen one like that before.Where is it from ?

"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
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Tony.
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We have a local craft shop which my wife frequents and it was in there while I was with her this morning that I spotted it. It is called PURElite and is by The Craft Factory. It appears to come from a factory in Aylesbury, Bucks. I have a phone number if you are interested. It was just £20, which I think is very good. The arm is very sturdy and it clips onto my workbench - they also have a free standing version. The lens is made from an acrylic material so is unlikely to be easily broken when I am waving pliers and a soldering iron about!
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Hi Geoff.

I found the PURElight that you have. Amazon have it at a good price.
Going to get me one of those.The one I have is big & awkward as my work bench is quite small.The PURElight would be very handy as I could clip it to a desk anywhere without the need for any power.:doublethumb

"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
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Tony.
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Good find, Tony. Be aware that there are two different sizes. An 85mm diameter one, and my one which is 130mm diameter. I see both on Amazon, and I think they refer to my one as "large".
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Okay, time to move on to the brass construction.

Firstly tools and parts. A temperature controlled soldering iron is a must, but it can be a simple one provided a little time is taken to work out settings for different temperatures:-




Above is a picture of mine together with some other essentials. When assembling brass signals it is useful, if not essential, to use three different solders each flowing at different temperatures. "Normal" solder flows at 188degC, and for that I use multicore shown on the reel on the left. This is the solder I always use (and have done for 50 years!) for electrical work. My soldering iron does not have a temperature reading, just a control marked from 1 to 6. I run it at its top setting, 6, when I use the multicore solder.

The bundle of solder next to the reel has a flow temperature of 145degC. I have learnt that a setting of between 3 and 4 on my iron is just right for this. Note that whilst the multicore solder contains flux within it, this 145 solder does not, so flux must be used. I use two different types. The yellow Power Flux is a cream and I apply it with a wooden cocktail stick. It sticks nicely to the items being soldered and works very well. The liquid is a proprietary product which I bought at an exhibition. You have to use a brush and I find it is best used where flat surfaces need to be tinned prior to being sweated together.

Then there is the bar of solder which is 70degC solder. My iron setting is about 2 for this to flow. We will see what solders we use for what purpose as we go along.

Also in this photo are a couple of essential tools. Some curved long nose pliers and a pair of normally closed tweezers. Remember that even small pieces of brass get hot!!

We also need a jig for making tubular post signals, either standalone posts, or for tubular dolls on brackets and gantries. Although I have now moved on to making brass lattice support posts for brackets and gantries, I have stuck with tube for the dolls as there are many examples on the prototype and they are much easier to work with than lattice.

Here is the jig:-




It is made following a diagram shown in Mick Nicholson's book which I mentioned at the beginning (you can see that mine has been well used). Two pieces of quarter inch square strip are fixed to a piece of 2 x 1 timber. The longer one along the length of the 2 x 1, and the short piece set at right angles. Length of each and position of the smaller one are arbitrary. The important things are the two 1/6th inch diameter holes drilled alongside the longer strip to the left of the short strip. There positions are shown by the two black ink marks on the long strip and are 4mm and 28mm respectively from the short strip.

When fixing the signal arm pivot(s) to the post, this jig holds the parts together like this:-




and if making a two arm post, like this:-




The distance that the two holes are drilled away from the long strip depends on the materials you are using. Things have changed since I made my first brass signal - only 5 years ago! I started with 1/16in diameter tube for the post, and 3/32in diameter tube for the butt at the bottom of the post. I also used 1/16in diameter tube for the signal arm pivot. So my jig has the arm pivot holes drilled 3/32 inch from the long strip.

If you buy the kit from MSE now, you will get 2mm tube for the post, 2.5mm tube for the butt, and still get 1/16in tube for the arm pivot. So your holes will need to be 2mm plus 1/32inch from the post - I make that 3.6mm. I now do have 2mm tube for posts, and, perhaps through wear, or just sloppy drilling, they still fit into my jig okay.

In addition to the holes for the arm pivots, two slits are made just 0.5mm deep using a razor saw, 6mm below the centre of each of the arm pivot holes. These will be used to locate the lamp brackets.

Now for some more of the parts in the kit:-




There is a ladder fret (middle of photo laid diagonally towards the lower right); a white metal post cap casting (under the ladder fret); a white metal lamp casting (left of centre); 2mm brass tube (under the ladder fret); 2.5mm brass tube (a shorter length alongside the 2mm  tube); 1/16in brass tube (to the left of the other two tubes); 0.8mm brass rod (inside the 1/16in brass tube); 0.31in brass wire (not in my photo); red, yellow, blue and green glazing (just small pieces supplied but as you can see, I have purchased a larger quantity as I have built a dozen signals now and still have many to go!!)

Also in this photo, but not in the kit, is a piece of 1inch x 0.04inch brass strip - mentioned in the kit instructions, but not supplied; and a length of 2mm brass "T" section. All will be revealed later.

Included in the kit is the all important etch of signal parts including the arms and this is included in the next photo:-




where I have also show other essential tools. Firstly a fine piercing saw to cut the various pieces of brass tube, etc; then a pin vice (and set of 0.3mm to 1.2mm drills - I have found 0.35, 0.5 and 0.8mm to be the most used, so have purchased them in 10 packs as they do break easily:oops:); also a small broach (bottom, right of centre) which is used to open up small holes - these can be bought in a set; above the broach is a glass fibre pen, essential for cleaning off brass frets before soldering; 16BA bolts and nuts, (just dissappearing out of the top left corner of the photo) and finally a scale rule just to check against your prototype drawings and photos of the real thing!

You will see that I have already broken out the home signal arm and spectacle plate from the fret (the fret is also missing some other parts which I will mention later) I use an old scalpel knife blade to remove items from the frets, but I know you can purchase purpose made scissors for the job. There is not much cleaning up to do of swarf, but I use small needle files when necessary.

Before I leave this introduction to the parts and tools, just a word of warning about the tubing. You have already seen that as metric has suddenly become more of the norm, it is difficult to obtain imperial sizes. But there is another trap. You will see that the post tube (2mm dia - previously 1/16in) fits snugly inside the butt tube (2.5mm dia - previously 3/32in), but ONLY IF the 2.5mm tube is "THIN WALL TUBE". I unknowingly bought some lengths of 2mm and 2.5mm tube all of the thick wall variety. Two problems; the 2mm tube does not fit inside the 2.5mm; and secondly the post cap castings do not fit inside the 2mm tube.

Here is a photo to compare 2mm thick wall and thin wall:-




Thick is on the left.

So, if you are going to purchase your own stocks to make lots of signals, make sure that you buy THIN WALL tubing for the posts and butts, BUT…. NOT FOR THE SIGNAL ARM PIVOT. That has to be 1/16in THICK WALL or the 0.8mm brass rod is too loose within the pivot tube!!!!!

They don't tell you any of that in the books or notes, so take it from me, be careful; and we haven't started building anything yet!


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So let's start assembly. The instructions with the MSE kit are highly detailed, so I won't repeat them here, but rather will just continue to share my experience along with a few photos of my work.

The Signal Arm

I have drilled a 0.8mm hole in the 2 x 1 timber at the end of the post jig, and inserted the supplied length of 0.8mm rod into it, and then placed the spectacle plate over the rod (it may be necessary just to clear the hole in the spectacle plate first to 0.8mm - be careful not to break out the side of the fret). Note that I have cleaned both surfaces of the spectacle plate with the glass fibre pen:-




Either then trim off the excess rod, or push it down almost flush with the spectacle plate and add flux:-


Now load the iron with 188deg solder:-




and apply the iron to the rod/plate joint just briefly with this result:-




Re-polish the end of the spectacle plate with the fibre pen and then apply flux to that face:-




Then tin with 188deg solder, both this part and the back of the end of the signal arm and just sweat the two together:-




Because the spectacle plate is held on the arm pivot rod, it doesn't matter if that joint flows again. It is important to do this with a clean iron (no solder) so that the half etched bolt heads on the front of the arm do not get filled with solder.

While the arm is still held on the 2 x 1, very carefully drill out the down wire fixing lug to 0.35mm. It is essential not to break through the side of the fret whilst doing this, so take your time.

This is what we now have:-




A lower quadrant arm would be made in the same way, but with a different shape spectacle plate and a different rod position on the plate. Clearly exactly the same procedure applies for other types of are such as Distant, Shunting, and all those other peculiar GWR ones.

 
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The Balance Lever

I followed the kit instructions for my first signal, but no longer do so. Instead I mostly use the suggestions of Mick Nicholson with a few variations.

To start with I do not use the lever parts supplied in the MSE kit. They are very good, and very fine, but I found too fine for me. I kept breaking through the side of the fret parts when trying to drill out the operating holes. Instead I use MSE fret S001 which used to be a D&S part 250PF.

http://www.modelsignals.com/4mm_scale_frame.htm

This fret has the necessary parts to create a number of balance levers including their supports, and operating wire cranks.

(If you are still with me, Tony, this is where I took those cranks from that you asked about earlier in the thread)

Firstly I remove TWO balance lever etches and two additional balance weights  from the fret, together with a 16BA washer:-




Then I clean, flux and tin one side of each of the lever etches as a pair - they are handed because the etch includes a small extrusion on one side of the balance weight to represent the bolt holding on the lever - DON'T think this is flashing and file it off!! This photo shows one tinned, and the other with the correct side up ready for tinning:-



I use a thin piece of balsa for this work as the parts "burn" into the surface a little which helps to hold them still whilst under the iron.

Now I sweat the two parts together and then add the two additonal balance weights and the 16BA washer:-



I hold the parts together with a wooden cocktail stick and find the whole assembly can be made just using 188deg solder, but you could use 140deg for the extra balance weights and washer if you find it difficult keeping everything in place. You will notice that the washer goes on the outside of one of the two lever parts, but the extra weights go on each side of the assembly.

I have kept this side clear of solder but turning over, the other side looks like this:-



I have filled this side with solder to ensure that the washer is tightly fixed, but havong kept the other side relatively clear I am then able to drill through the three holes:-




… 0.8mm through the washer hole, and 0.35 mm through the two control wire holes:-




Now remove the balance lever end support from the fret and together with a 16BA nut and bolt and the prepared balance lever we have:-




The end support is designed to be folded through 90deg BUT I leave it flat. The bolt goes through it and its head is soldered to the support. The balance lever is slipped over the bolt and the nut wound on a few turns just to keep everything together for now:-




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The Post

Using the jig, assemble the signal arm pivot(s) to the post in the jig with 188deg solder. One for a single arm and two for a two arm post. Next, before adding the butt or anything else, we need to add the lamp bracket. The MSE kit includes a very fine two piece bracket which I have managed to assemble, but it is very difficult. An alternative is to use the 2mm "T" section I mentioned earlier, and this is down to Mick Nicholson. Lay the T section in the slit which was sawn in the jig:-




Make sure it is straight with the top of the tee towards the arm pivot ready to form the platform for the lamp, and solder into place using 140deg solder. Then trim off to a length of 4mm and file the leg of the T section into a triangle shape so that it looks like this one:-




Note that this small doll also has a post cap fitted, but you don't want to do that yet - it's virtually the last thing in the assembly.

Now add the butt - the 2.5mm tube - to the bottom of the post and we are ready to start assembling the various components.

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Hi Geoff.
Amazon won't send it to Ireland for some reason ? That sometimes happens if the product is coming from a company in the Amazon business community & not Amazon directly themselves.
I ordered the small magnifier from here www.singermachines.co.uk
I didn't realize there were two sizes so maybe I will change to the larger one.:roll:
I've sent them an E mail so we'll see what happens.

EDIT: Cancelled the small 85mm magnifier & ordered the 130mm one instead.Looks the business.

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"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
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Tony.
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The next stage in the assembly is to solder the balance lever bracket to the post. On a single post signal, it is fixed onto the butt 5ft (20mm) above ground level. I find that it is easier to fit this bracket before any base plate is fitted to the bottom of the signal post.

Remove the lever from the 16BA bolt and insert the bolt into another 0.8mm hole drilled into our wooden jig. Then lay the post (butt) on top of the front of the lever bracket and solder with 145deg solder so that it looks like this:-



The lever has been refitted to the bolt in this photo, but you can still see that the bolt head is behind the post. Ensure that the bolt is at right angles to the signal arm pivot.

Refit the lever as shown in the photo.

Now is the time to fit a baseplate if constructing a standalone signal. I use a piece of 1in brass as mentioned previously and drill a 2.5mm hole through it, fit the post butt into the hole, and solder with 188deg solder. I made my post long enough to have half an inch or so protruding below the baseplate:-




This allows a strong placement on the layout baseboard with a hole for the end of the post and the baseplate ensuring the post remains upright.

Next comes the fitting of the signal lamp. You can either fit the supplied white metal lamp with 70deg solder or superglue, or, as I have done, fit a working lamp. I use ready made lamps from Express Models:-




This is the front view of a twin arm doll showing the two lamps. Here is the reverse view:-




I have removed the wire from the lower (negative) leg of the led and soldered this directly to the lamp bracket using 70deg solder. I have then threaded the upper lead down through the centre of the post. (This will not work with thick wall tube!!) The negative connection to the led is made using the brass post tube as the conductor.

Then you can fit the post cap as seen in the photo. I glue mine in so as not to destroy the wire from the lamp.

All that is needed to finish the post is fitting an appropriate ladder, painting and then fitting the signal arm into its pivot. Finally the back blinder is soldered to the rear of the signal pivot rod as per the kit instructions. This needs to be done with the smallest amount of 70deg solder. Do not be tempted to use super glue as it will run into the pivot and you will not have a working signal arm.

Now connect the signal arm to the balance lever as we did with the Ratio kit, and you have a working model.
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A few more photos that might help:-













The last three are meant to represent partially dismantled dolls on my gantry so have no arms, and the lamps are those supplied in the kit rather than working ones.
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That looks great Geoff. I'm really enjoying this subject. My resistors came today so I will be having a go at a Ratio soon.At the moment I'm trying to sort out a coupling system for my layout.I rather fancy the Kadee system.I have some American stock which I am using for testing with magnets.I tried the neo type but found it very fiddly so tried a Kadee permanent magnet instead. That seems to work fine.I have also been looking at the Sprat & Winkle & Dinghams. There are some threads on here which i have been looking atso we'll see how it goes.

"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
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Tony.
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I have been using Kadees for a while now, Tony. I initially tried the surface ones between the rails, but as I use code 75 track, I had to cut away sleepers and I then found the magnets were not easy to align. However, the under track ones are great. Best to decide where they are needed before laying the track, but I have managed a retrofit as well:-













 
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Hi Geoff.
The reason I am looking into the coupling problem before I go any further is because I have two small goods yards I need to sort out couplings & magnets before I go any further.
This little area on the right is already paved with Cobbles because I thought I could set some neo magnets in drilled holes just inside the rails & use them with the Kadees.It didn't really work out so I have inserted a Kadee magnet between the rails & that works fine.These photos are taken showing both ends of the shunting area & were taken before I inserted the kadee magnet





I have a similar area on the other side of the layout & I want to sort that out before I pave & ballast the area. I have one of those under track magnets in stock so I will fit that over there before I go any further.

"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
Regards.
Tony.
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Sol is in the usergroup ‘Super-moderators’
Not wanting to hi-jack your thread Geoff, but this bit is for Tony about Kadee & magnets
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=8481&forum_id=6&page=1

Ron
NCE DCC ; 00 scale UK outline.
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Hi Sol.
Thank you for that link.I had seen a thread on another forum which used 6mm x 3mm cylinder shaped neo's placed in 3mm holes drilled either side just inside the rails. I tried that but wasn't really happy as they were very hit & miss. The problem was the neo's pull down while the kadee magnets pull across which is what is needed.
Tony.

"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
Regards.
Tony.
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Thanks for this one Geoff, certainly given us all something to watch and enjoy.
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