Some of you may recall that I obtained some HO scale trams in UK last year.

I've decided to build a small tramway that can be added to the main Maxmill Junction layout when (and if) that ever gets off the stocks.

Having studied many tram photo archives, I'm not at all sure they are HO scale - they certainly don't look out of place scale-wise against my "OO" Metcalfe buildings.  That's a huge relief because I really didn't want a module, tramway and main layout as separate units.

I'm not doing anything too fancy in terms of trackwork.  There is a "proper" grooved girder system available in the States (at a price) but I thought I'd just use Code 100 peco track.

As the pointwork will be small radius and curves can be fairly tight, I thought I'd use set-track for speed and ease. 

Does the geometry of set-track pointwork give an accurate double track formation or is it miles apart ?

as far as I am aware Peter it should give 50mm centres,but remember Tramways could be more or even less depending on the highway system.

lol::cool:

Thanks Owen.

Yes, there is a problem using railway track for trams.  The 6ft way would be too wide for street centre trams but to change that, I'd throw the geometry out for the junctions.  I think I'll just have to accept the inaccuracy and call it "modellers licence" otherwise I'd have to build everything.  I doubt even Templot could cope with that ………..

Peter youi could probably cut back the curved toe rails to bring the two rails closer together done carefully you could probably get the rails very close together within your road width limits.

Brian

I've moved this thread here from "Member's Layouts" because it's trams but I'm not sure it's the right place.  What do you think ?

Here's a simple plan for the tram layout:


  The heavy black line represents double tram tracks.  The railway viaduct will carry the main "Maxmill Junction" feeds to the station and hide the access to the tram shed and fiddle yard.

Inspired by John Drew's wonderful "dark, dingy corner" near his canal and viaduct, and Dave Shakespeare's Tetley Mills, there will be a rather run-down Victorian mill - town setting with cobbled streets,  "back lanes" and yards.

Front left corner will be a Victorian wrought iron fenced park either with just formal flower beds or swings etc.

Along the back wall and thus in front of the roof-top level railway, will be the "raison d'etre" for the town - a substantial factory - or maybe a mill (the "dark satanic" variety)

The size of the tram system, yet to be fixed, will probably be in the region of 8ft x 4ft. on 2 boards

looks reasonable to me Peter, an interesting build ,TRAMS for a change.

:doublethumb:cool:

Looks very interesting Peter

You will have lots of fun creating an industrial town scene……..and, to quote Iain Rice, a tram system (like a canal) will make the perfect signature item.

I look forward to reading about it……………I assume the Mill will manufacture screws?

Looks ok to me mate. At least you have a good stock of screws, so that bring the cost down on this a tad, mutley

Phill

I'm looking forward to watching this one develop Peter. 

[user=363]Janner[/user] wrote:

I'm looking forward to watching this one develop Peter. 

So am I John ……………………..:roll::roll:

I've been looking at a couple of suppliers of "proper" girder rail tram track - on in the States and another in Sweden:


http://www.trolleyville.com/trolleyville.shtml    Go to "Orr Street Track"

and in Sweden:

http://www.swedtram.se/eng/swedtrack/swedtrack.html

Swedtram apparently manufacture the rail for Trolleyville but not the turnouts.

It's all a bit pricey - the rail would cost £5.30 per metre ex the States and slightly dearer from Sweden but the real difference is in the points/turn-outs.  Ex the States, they are £9.35 but ex Sweden, they're a massive £33.21 !!!!  They're far better beasts from Sweden but I've got to do more research at both sources.  fortunately the Swedes speak English because I struggle a bit with my Swedish adverbs nowadays……………..

This layout is already intriguing me, Peter.  I think you're right in exploring the possibility of "proper" tram track as well.  What are the rough dimensions of the layout?

Hi Peter

I was thinking about the street infill for your tramway……I notice you ignored my comment…..no doubt hoping it would go away…….it wont

I can remember trams in Liverpool and in the outer suburbs there were straight runs of ballasted track to the side of the the actual road but not in the type of urban setting you have sketched.

As you know I like plastic and there is no doubt the Wills Granite setts look the part but they are a pain to cut and install and in my case (Granby II) the result wasnt worth the effort so for the Brewery in Granby III you may recall I used Metcalfe Cobblestones




I had some leveling problems of my own making but overall the printed sheets were much easier to install particularly on curves and pointwork

However the point of this rambling email (my apologies) is that the setts should go two ways. By the platform and on the outside of the front rail you can see a retaining border of 3 courses at right angles to the main lay

There are strips are on the edges of the Metcalfe Sheets but I had to cut quite a few more and turn them thru 90o which was both time consuming and fiddly………….so fiddly that, as you can see I didnt do it for the centre infill and I am sure they should be there

I was wondering whether one could use Doofers Photoplus editing system and scan Scalescenes setts and manipulate the image and add side borders so the total image was a perfect fit for the infill……………..this would make installation much easier and give a much crisper finished effect

When I eventually do my city goods yard I might try it……meantime I thought I would share the idea……to help with your planning

Kind Regards

 

  

Thanks for the input John and no, I hadn't ignored your comment - I was just working out a suitable response !!!! 

You are, of course,  absolutely right about the way they did the tram tracks.  My memories are from Leeds and in the "suburbs" they had dedicated tram ways - either fenced off down the centre to the road or, more frequently, alongside the road.  These could, for all the world, have been railway tracks.  They had sleepers set in stone ballast and  used "I" section conventional railway type rails.

Once the trackwork entered the "built-up" parts of the town, then the tracks were the "tramtrack" grooved girder rail with stone setts which had a slight "drain" effect like the modern gutter. They were not fenced at all but the trams had those "cow-catcher" frames front and rear to scoop up any unsuspecting members of the public who might jaywalk.  My word, how things have changed since "Elf and Softy" came into being.  The road surface, depending on where it was, might have been cobbled or tarmac.  Both butted up to the setts you've shown in your photos.  The "groove-girder" rail profile was designed to stop the wheels cutting into and therefore damaging the road surface or stones getting jammed in point blades etc.

I've read of several systems to form the setts you describe from plasticard (with the difficulties you mention) to scribed DAS or similar modelling compound.  As you say, the major problem seems to be replicating those setts along the track side and most people just ignore them - to the detriment of the layout I think, as your shot so admirably shows.  Your idea of using Doug's Photoplus might just work …………..:roll:

Research into tram modelling is proving somewhat interesting and very trying !!

I'm surprised at just how little interest in this aspect of modelling there is.  Many of the "manufacturers" have either closed down or been absorbed into other "small" orgainsations.  Most "companies" seem to be one-man hobbyists.  There don't seem to be any big players in the infra-structure field although one or two of the continental companies do market tramcar models.  The UK trams of the first half of the 20th century seem to have been almost totally bypassed.

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm particularly interested in what's available in the "grooved girder rail" field.  Most tram modellers (and there don't seem to be that many), use ordinary model railway track - I'm starting to understand why ……

I've found 3 companies making this grooved girder rail - 2 in the States and 1 in Sweden - although the Swedish one has some tie up withone of the US manufacturers.  I've contacted them all and had very prompt replies from the Swedes and 1 US site.  The other has replied to my e-mail saying that "it's his busy time just now so will get back to me when he has time" !!!!  How to gain satisfied customers eh and I thought in the States, the customer was king !! ? :shock::shock::shock::twisted:

With these 2 companies, the problem currently is one of cost - more to do with shipping 1 metre lengths of rail from the States or Sweden than the actual "off the shelf" prices although the Swedes do want a hefty margin on their pointwork.

I also contacted a model tram company based in Lancashire - twice !!    To date, I haven't even had the courtesy of a reply although I do know he's read my first e-mail !!!!

As standards in tram track are different to those of trains, using set-track isn't an option I want to use.  It would be "almost" fine with single track, but as soon as you double it, the trams would be far too far apart.  Also, the turnouts are the wrong radius.

It's frustrating when you read a book extolling the virtues of so-an-so's overhead traction poles or motor bogies with following comments like "no longer available",  "ceased manufacture when the owner died", "sadly ceased production many years ago" etc. etc. .

I'd have thought that either there's an opening there for an entrepreneur or there's no interest in modelling 19th century trams !!   I wonder which it is……..

 Maybe if I were 20 years younger …………………………………:roll::roll::roll:

 

Oh dear I have obviously been influenced by Peters new enthusiasm for trams  :roll:.  I cannot explain it and it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever but I saw this on ebay and just had to have it . At least it was a good price , factory interior lighting fitted and can be used on the Llanynys line as it is the same gauge . Will have  to come up with an excuse for it to be there - perhaps the "American Tourist" standing on the Halt platform is also a tram enthusiast and has brought his own transport to inspect lines he visits , alternatively perhaps I have finally lost the plot altogether  .

 

I didn't realise "tramfluenza" was contageous Richard …………..

Looks like a good model. :thumbs

I'm not starting any tram projects.
Too many of them about.

Hi again,

I've been applying a little thought to "grooved girder rail". If you sourced some copper clad pcb type sleepers, could you not make up some "grooved girder rail" using lengths of bull-head rail, laid in their sides?

Just finkin'


Doug

Thanks Doug and Martin. :thumbs

An interesting concept.   I thought bullhead rail was almost impossible to buy nowadays :hmm   Looking at the idea, the pointwork (some of which can be fairly complex in tramways), would worry me to death.  Given that I've never built my own trackwork, it might require a fair bit of practice before I could even consider points - if, in fact, they'd work using those twin rails.

I have ordered a "sample" of girder rail from Proto 87 in the States.  It's fine scale and that may not suit my trams and also, it works out at around £9 per metre of straight track. Watch out for photos when it arrives.

I'm still digging. :thumbs