[user=3]Gwent Rail[/user] wrote:

Now the hard conversation need to be had with Model Rail as to what we get in exchange. The advert was part of our deal with them to be advertised as one of our sponsors, so we'll see what they have to offer. Ben Jones will not have an easy conversation with me when I get hold of him :exclam:twisted::twisted::twisted:

They will have one with me too, soon. A small article with  photographs in March, no acknowledgement, no gratis copy which I ask for as part payment and two ignored e-mails to 'Ben' and no mention of copyright! I only learned from a thir party it was printed.

Disgruntled Doofer

PS …knew it wouldn't be Jeff's fault…..

D

 Christrerise said: I am feeling quite faint with all this talk about the d word :oops:

 

Glass of water for Mr Trerise!

 

I must admit I have always had concerns with Model Rail, I had to chase them for payment for a photo they published.

Also they bombard me with phone calls wanting me to take an advert for Railex each year, we used to take an half page advert with them, but decided not to one year and put the add in the Hornby mag instead and our attendence went up quite a bit.

Also there is 13 issues a year so you have less shelf exposure that a monthly mag. Finally Model Rail is printed on too thin paper that rips.

David

I have subscribed to them since 2001 but this last year I have seriously thought about canciling as im sick of them re running the same articals. I will be having a quiet word at the show ! :roll:  

Model Rail asked to be sponsors of the show and when we agreed, part of the deal was that they pay the full price for a full page ad. in the Souvenir Brochure (£150.00) and give us a full page ad in the Model rail mag. that's just come out, as well as a 2 page "show preview" (for which I supplied full artwork and photos) and some substantial prizes for each day of our YMR stand raffle. In return they would get their stand (14ft) and be recognised as a sponsor. Nowhere near as good a deal as that given by Kernow YMR, but as an additional sponsor, OK.

Now the relevant magazine has been published, our preview has been re-written and reduced to 5/8 page, our advert was missed out altogether and we are still waiting for our brochure money despite giving them details for a backs transfer more than 3 weeks ago.

When I phoned Ben Jones, I pointed out that so far we have given him a free stand (14ft = £98.00) and are waiting for his £150.00, with nothing else to show for his "sponsorship".

He promised to put our ad on his website, as well as on his flicker page and send an email to all his list of subscribers. Nobody has yet confirmed that any of this has been done. I wait with bated breath to see what prizes we get and await my chance to "ambush" him at the Saturday evening Hog Roast to press my point and enquire what else we will get.

One thing is sure, he'll have a hard task convincing me to let him sponsor us at any future shows. Sponsors of his quality I can do without!!

Jeff

If the brochure money doesnt materialise by the day of the show I would seriously consider not allowing them to occupy the stand space  until its paid as these payments have a habit of being forgotten after the show is over because the organiser  has no leverage to bring awkward exhibitors into line.

Not a model railway organisation but I had an identical situation  at a show once and so placed a large notice on the empty stand explaining that by an oversight the exhibitor had not paid for it which was unfair on the other exhibitors. The sign was seen just before the event opened by one of their directors  who was so embarrassed he paid cash out of his wallet and his member of staff responsible for exhibition participation was never seen at an event again.

Richard dont tell him that he will be asking me to make yet another sign

A good way of extracting the money thou.

all the people in the trade fully realise all shows cost money to set up so really they should pay up in time if none did most shows would not even get going through lack of funding.

Brian

Continental Modeller has featured Schotterwerke as promised and shown it as next seen at our show, plus the diary entry is fully comprehensive.

So really we have only let down by one of our main sponsers :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

Along with Jeff, I am looking forward to the hog roast, should be fun bringing this up in front of all the other editors from the other mags and making Ben feel very small :roll::roll:

I have also tried to find a website that he has posted anything about us and the show…………………………………. no luck yet :twisted:

I bought a couple of issues of this magazine a while ago but was not that impressed so mention of a web site made me decide to want to have a look and see whether things have changed . Well I have had a good look and all I can find is the magazines group web site which is all about subscriptions and nothing about magazine content.

There is something about this situation that doesnt feel right .

I notice that on another Forum there have been comments to the effect that although the September issue is supposedly available several people who shop buy have only just seen the August arrive on their shop shelves and dont expect the September issue in for another 2 to 3 weeks.

Unfortuatelly that wont be much help for show publicity.

I personaly think that model rail has gone downhill in the past year. All I ever read are the same articals by the same people. Bring back Chris Leigh !! :thumbs

As sponsors, they have certain agreed responsibilities in exchange for what they get at the show.  It's a sort of "contract".

If they don't carry out their responsibilities then we are under no obligation to provide thewm with what we've promised as the contract has been breached.

I'd get on to him pronto informing him that, as they have failed to print the agreed advert and failed to pay for the brochure space, the "free" stand is no longer available and will cost them £98 (in part payment for their failures) and that they will not be advertised as sponsors at the show.  Give him 7 days to respond.

That will either make them jump or we will have an empty 14ft stand where we can place the notice along the lines Richard spoke of (and Brian will make !!!  :roll:)

Peter

We will not have an empty space, as Jeff has people willing to pay to take that space, or another layout, so that's not a problem, what is, is the fact that Ben and the staff at Model Rail seemed to have messed Jeff around ( on most things relating to anything printed) and also from what I have found out this is not the first time.

It's my turn to speak to him soon, but I need a few details from Jeff first ……………………………………… :twisted:

Guys,

First I bought a copy of the September issue of Model Rail today off the shelf in Hobbycraft, so they are available.

Second, messing Jeff about is unforgivable and I certainly think they ought to be made aware of this forum' views on the subject. The organisers have put too much time and effort in on our behalf to be treated like this and I personally feel very angry for them. Sadly speaking from experience, I can confirm that this is a regular occurence in areas such as this, although that dosn't excuse it. I would recommend taking Ben to one side and telling him if and when we see him.

Third, may I just chuck in a word of caution. Despite anyone's personal view of the magazine, it does have a very large circulation erego it is influential. Again speaking from experience I've always fought shy of confontation with such organs, preferring cooly to let them know what the position is and how we have no choice but to try and recover our position - "sure they will understand", "embarrassing all round if they weren't there", "trying to avoid adverse publicity", "competitors watching this" etc etc. - Jeff knows the phrases. This would be followed by a statement of absolute facts in that we can only hold this for a further x days because there are others who wish to take up the space. So "sure you will understand that in order to ensure our viability we will need to receive your sponsorship prior to xx or we will have to sell the space".

I accept that this will go down like a brick budgie in some quarters but it may just get us what we want without causing more aggro and we may be able to get something more out of it.

Dons tin helmet and stands behind barricade.:shock:

Les

[user=18]Les[/user] wrote:

Guys,

First I bought a copy of the September issue of Model Rail today off the shelf in Hobbycraft, so they are available.

Second, messing Jeff about is unforgivable and I certainly think they ought to be made aware of this forum' views on the subject. The organisers have put too much time and effort in on our behalf to be treated like this and I personally feel very angry for them. Sadly speaking from experience, I can confirm that this is a regular occurence in areas such as this, although that dosn't excuse it. I would recommend taking Ben to one side and telling him if and when we see him.

Third, may I just chuck in a word of caution. Despite anyone's personal view of the magazine, it does have a very large circulation erego it is influential. Again speaking from experience I've always fought shy of confontation with such organs, preferring cooly to let them know what the position is and how we have no choice but to try and recover our position - "sure they will understand", "embarrassing all round if they weren't there", "trying to avoid adverse publicity", "competitors watching this" etc etc. - Jeff knows the phrases. This would be followed by a statement of absolute facts in that we can only hold this for a further x days because there are others who wish to take up the space. So "sure you will understand that in order to ensure our viability we will need to receive your sponsorship prior to xx or we will have to sell the space".

I accept that this will go down like a brick budgie in some quarters but it may just get us what we want without causing more aggro and we may be able to get something more out of it.

Dons tin helmet and stands behind barricade.:shock:

Les

Despite my personal position regarding my dealings with MR and their lack of  politeness to me, these are sound words. Giving them time and an  opportunity to recover their position is sensible, i.e., if you whack  someone with a stick they are entitled to whack back and they have bigger  sticks than us!

May I respectfully suggest we leave it just to the 'officers/officer' of the forum who are/is best placed to present our combined sense of disappointment and not over-egg the apple-grumble?

Doug

agh just kick him in the goolies and call it quits!!!!

:cool:

Were you in the Diplomatic Corps Les ?  I'd send a gunboat but you're more likely to succeed…………:thumbs

Doug suggests it's best left to the organiser "most appropriate" for the task………..  As Jeff is the organiser who's done most of the advertising material, I'd suggest he shelves his ragman's trumpet BEFORE approaching Mr. Benjamin Jones (who actually has a Welsh name :shock::shock::shock:)  I wonder if they'll reopen those mines in the Rhondda to bury the results of this meeting :roll::roll::roll:

Hold on guys, there's no need to panic :exclam:exclam

Let's get things straight here, Model Rail will be at the show, we will get our advertising money, I will deal diplomatically with Ben Jones (but he'll know where he stands) and we will get some extra sponsor benefit out of him for "our charities".

In my years in marketing and sales management, I've dealt with far more difficult cases than Ben and had little trouble in doing so. I've already had a long discussion with him and he was very, very apologetic. He's stated in print that "Model Rail will be at the show" both in the mag and in his advert in the program.

The "Forum Rottweiler" can be charm personified when necessary and is perfectly capable of smiling sweetly in your face whilst twisting your balls fiercely. Leave it to me guys, leave it to me. 

It was, after all, my job to deal with idiots we wanted something out of. thumbs 

[user=3]Gwent Rail[/user] wrote:

The "Forum Rottweiler" can be charm personified when necessary and is perfectly capable of smiling sweetly in your face whilst twisting your balls fiercely.

I am trying to imagine this but keep on    - a Rottweiler smiling sweetly :question   Wouldn't  that be an oxymoron :question