Hi Nigel.   Thank you. From the edge of the track? The end of the track, at the join between  Inglenook and the fiddleyard  is 2 1/2” to 3” from the edge of the board. That is when I had the idea about a fence or a wall, to prevent Loco’s or Stock falling off the baseboard .   Best wishes. Kevin

[user=1801]Passed Driver[/user] wrote: 

Not expecting any curves whatsoever . I have read, mistakenly or otherwise that the code 75  asymmetric point was “ like a left hand point laid on top of a right hand point, much simpler than the original code 100 point.

That is true Kevin re the Code 75  3 way asymmetric turnout like a left hand turnout laid on top of a right hand turnout but you will still need some curves for any turnout to get parallel tracks.

Hi Ron.  Thank you for your reply. So does that mean it is a short curve? just long enough to get straight, or, is it more complicated ? than that because both of my baseboards are fourteen inches wide, and in need of a safety rail, net or similar, to prevent Loco’s or rolling stock literarily smashing to the ground like my track cleaning brake van.Best wishes.  Kevin

Kevin, not complicated at all - see my photo below of two such turnouts on my layout

Hi Kevin,

I had a look at the dimensions of the three way and got my Peck track gauge out. With only 2.5-3" Ron's pictures show how much space you need. I think you may well be off the board or right on the edge. I would go diagonal with a slight curve coming out of the tunnel. You need to be able to get your fingers between parked stock. The exit from the scenic plank I am working on is not in the middle, so it gets a curve and runs diagonal. I gained a bit of room by using the symmetrical code 100 three way. I'll probably use code 100-code 83 rail joiners. 

Nigel

Hi Ron. Thank you very much, pictures as well. But, with my fiddleyard being only fourteen inches wide it will be very tight on the left hand side, had I planned it from the outset things would have been different , instead, I am left with a bodge up?     Best wishes.   Kevin

Hi Nigel.   Thank you.   What is a “Peck Gauge” ? As I wrote to Ron I had not planned this fiddleyard from the outset or it would have been much better, that is what you get by putting “ the cart before the horse” . And it isn’t a case of back to the drawing board either.    Best wishes. Kevin

Hi Ron.  and Nigel  I have just had an idea. But, it may be a compromise ? I have a “large radius r/ h Electrofrog point” that is spare,if I purchased a Peco SL-E 187 left hand curved Electrofrog to connect to it, would that give me three sidings that were fairly straight?  Or would they be spread out like a fan??  Okay the sidings won’t be equal length, but, I am only running 2 Bil, 2 Hal, a 2car DEMU . Or maybe an Hornby Maunsell Push Pull Set .    Best wishes. Kevin

The two separate turnouts will be longer than the 3 way asymmetric turnout and you still have to have some curved track to get parallel tracks  & I think the Peck gauge is really the Peco gauge.

Hi Ron.   Thank you . I do have a Peco Gauge , but, I didn’t know which side measured what? That is always a problem when using multiple points in a line . I am held up at the moment? I purchased a Razor Saw I tried it once, but, now I cannot find it. And I am not ready for a Dremel yet. Best wishes. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Peck, my Kindle has a mind of its own. Peco of course. Easier to use than a ruler and it sets the correct spacing.

Ron is right, by the time the curves are added to get it parallel you will be left with about 2-2.25 feet of the board for the sidings. Given the proximity of the three way right hand track to the edge you might be better off with a small radius LH followed by a small radius RH. The only thing that changes with the Peco design is the length, you will still have the same length curves to deal with to get it parallel. You will save quite a few inches by using the three way. It really is a case of laying the track on the board, using a ruler and pencil, and seeing what works. 

You could put that the first part of a reverse curve in the scenic board, the second on the fiddle yard. That would at least move it in a bit. Or start the three way immediately  after the first curve and run it diagonally.

I use short #4 turnouts which save a lot of space.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.   My iPad has a spell check, but ,I don’t rely on it? But if my finger don’t reach the “R key” I get strange words and the spell check alerts me. As it happens I did learn to “ Touch Type about twentyfive years ago, but the machines? We’re out of the Ark with oversize keyboards. I am uncertain how using four points saves you space? but, I thought that you built your own pointwork???  Best wishes.  Kevin

Kevin, Nigel did not say to use 4 points but #4 turnouts meaning the small radius units. For explaining the # numbers, which relate to frog/crossing info

Hi Kevin,

As Ron says, a number 4 turnout refers to the front angle. Peco small, medium and large radius points are from memory all around #6, smaller angle, more space required. As you go from small to large the length of the points increases. Different philosophy to other brands. 

Shinoharah did at one time do points with frog  #2.5, #3 and #4,  ideal for narrow gauge or contractors. Or tight spaces. I've just done a code 83 #4 wye, I will be doing a couple of #4 regular turnouts and probably a #4 stub. I do use commercial offerings, Micro Engineering do some nice On30 code 83 #5 turnouts which I have to hand, and I will be using a Peco symmetrical three way code 100 in the fiddle yard. No idea of the frog number, but it is less than 8" long. I

It is important to determine what the ruling radius will be, long bogie stock or 6-coupled steam locomotives need decent radii, otherwise interesting things happen, such as buffer lock or derailment. Plus I am a bit leary of having points within 6" of a curve or baseboard joint.

 Nigel

Hi Ron.  Thank you.  But that is me , I didn’t realise that    #4 was the size, my original plan featured two short “ Peco ‘ small wye points.    Best wishes. Kevin

Hi Nigel. Thank you.   My original plan featured two Peco “ small wye points” are they not #4 then? or are they some irregular size? As for DIY Points that is something that along with fitting a DCC Decoder that I haven’t tried. Apart from anything else soldering in the sitting position is an “ anathema “ to me, and standing for too long is a PITA . As for Locos and wheel formation’s? I read something about 0-4-0 Locos needing a greater radius than an 0-6-0 Loco . As my Locos are a mixture ( apart from the schools class) of 0-4-0 s and 0-6-0 s it has left me guessing . If you can “ pick the bones out of that” and advise me, without returning anything to Hattons I would be obliged .  Best wishes. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

From what I remember all Peco points (code 83 excepted) have the same frog, which is about a #6. makes manufacturing easy. Designed really for set track layouts. Short, medium, and long refers to the closure rail radius, that is why the points are different with respect to length. What this means in practice is that they are very forgiving with respect to wheel set back to backs, and that the curves for getting the exit track parallel are the same (that set track design). Where you save space is on the length of the points (again, from memory 8, 10 and 12 inches or there abouts). The asymmetrical gains space by squeezing two turnouts together. You can do this yourself and save a few inches. The symmetrical gains even more by having the left and right hand points opposite each other.

Unless you use sector plates, turntables or cassettes  fiddle yards need the siding length plus a couple of feet for the points.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.  Thank you. I have never thought much about “statistics” , I purchased Hornby system 4 or 6 to prove that.Then someone recommended Graham Farish OO Points, another bod said “ you should have bought Peco “ . And all that was fifty years ago. Your comment  â€œ And that the curves for getting the exit track parallel “ , that is what I thought was I idea of the asymmetric point. But, wrong again.   Best wishes. Kevin

Kevin, didn't you check websites/ Peco catalogue  for a photo of the asymmetric turnout SL-E199 which clearly shows that  extra track would be required to get tracks parallel ?

Hi Kevin,

Rather than watching paint dry this evening I was looking at my track plan (I use CorelDraw for this sort of thing) to see what I needed to allow for with that Peco symmetrical three way on the fiddle yard (for starters I was going with 4' but 5' or even 6' would be better!), as the track does not exit the scenic board in the middle. While I was at it I had a quick look to see how that asymmetrical three way would fit on your track plan. I downloaded the Peco point plans, pasted then into the software and resized as appropriate (I use 1":1').

I used a track center of 2". If you use 2.75" (advisable, more space to get fingers in) then the space between the track and the edge of the board will be less.

If you have 4" from the edge of the scenic board to the center of the current track it will work. Just. More would be good, less would be problematic. Leaving 2" from the edge of the fiddle baseboard to the start of the points (again not advisable but if you have the WIT on the top it should be OK) I came up with the following:

For a 2" track center, the edge of the RHS siding sleepers will be around 1.3" from the edge of the board. Risky IMO, but OK if you use an edge. The usable part of sidings will be about 2.6' long. The radius to connect the RHS and LHS sidings it to the points is about 3.25'.

You could put a LH point immediately after the three way on the LHS to give you 4 sidings.

For a 2.75" track center, the edge of the RHS siding sleepers from the edge of the board is about 0.7".  :Red Card! Very risky IMO.

Best bang for the buck is if you have the three way on the diagonal, using a short piece of curved track at the start of the fiddle board (3.25' radius, 2" long) or even starting on the scenic board and running across the board junction which would allow a greater radius (4" would allow you to use a 6.5' radius, less risk of derailments), 

Two short radius LH turnouts only give you around 2' of siding. Didn't check wyes, too many curves for my liking.

 As I said, use pencils, tape/ruler/compass/protractor and some 1/10 graph paper to plan it out. Better than trying to eyeball it. You can actualy do this in MS Word or Powerpoint using the drawing tools. The asymmetrical three way is 10.75" long by around 2.8" wide at the widest (sleeper edge to sleeper edge). The symmetrical one is 8.66" long, same width. Both are medium radius.

You should be able to download the sheets from Peco to the iPad (they are all pdf files) and stick them in Word or Powerpoint, where they can be resized.

Cassettes or traversers are actually better, gives almost the full length of the board for storage. Difficult in your case as the track in and out is at the front edge of the board.
 
Hope the above helps you in the planning.

Nigel