Rolling Roads

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Sol
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Peter I would want to support every working axle including pickups in tenders.
Not sure how many Big Boys are running in USA but Beyer-Gsrrats here in Oz, quite a few.

I would also guess that main stream modelling would vary country to country.

One of my close by mates who models USA in the heady of steam, has a small fleet of over 250 locos and he has fitted not only sound to all but tender pickups as well and for the few tank engines with pony trucks,  even fitted pick ups to those wheels, both front & back. I will have to ask him about his rolling road…


but back to your purchase, if it suits your locos,  good…
that is one thing about this hobby, so many variables to suit all tastes.

Ron
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I like the idea of 250 locos being considered a "small" fleet …………. :shock: :shock: :shock:  You're surely not going to tell me that's typical of Australian railway modelling ……………………!!!

I'm guessing this RR was designed with British outline in mind Sol - after all, that's where it is manufactured.  In steam terms in UK, one is unlikely to see many locos bigger than a Pacific. I think the LMS had a couple of Beyer-Garratts but I don't know of any Big Boys - the country is too small !!  A Pacific in "O" Gauge is quite a hefty locomotive and that will fit.  

Within reason, any number of axles can be supported with additional cradles - the tender tray is not fixed and can be lifted out to make way for umpteen more cradles.

Are there many rolling roads suitable for the likes of Big Boys and Beyer-Garratts ?  I'd guess even in the States, the market for them would be fairly limited compared with smaller locomotives.

'Petermac
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Sol
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[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:
I like the idea of 250 locos being considered a "small" fleet …………. :shock: :shock: :shock:  You're surely not going to tell me that's typical of Australian railway modelling ……………………!!!

No, it just that he calls it a small fleet.   I run in a normal Op session on the D&S ,17 locos out of about 25 total; a couple of other layouts I operate on vary from 12 -30 locos per session and they have plenty of spares. A few UK outline layouts here in South Australia have many locos as most layouts are quite large 20 ft x 20ft or bigger.

Ron
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[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:
Nigel,  I had answered the points you raised one at a time but decided to delete the reply and say quite simply, regarding this rolling road, you're talking a load of bullshit !!

Not sure about that one Peter. I have used a number of rolling roads over the past 15-odd years, some good, some bad, and some downright useless. Thankfully I am the owner of a Bachrus system, which is highly flexible with respect to locomotive length and gauge (I use several gauges  including OO). I have no experience of this particular model, but am simply pointing out one of its obvious deficiencies. If you (and anybody else) can live with them, fine, it's YMR after all, others who need more flexibility need to do their homework. In this case one size only fits one size (2 actually, but that's it. Interesting design though). If you envisage only running 6-coupled engines with isolated wheels it does the job. As you say, horses for courses.
Nigel



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Good bargain to be had here if someone is quick.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284072995103?ul_noapp=true
Tony.

"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
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Tony.
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I looked at that one in my research Tony.  It's manufactured by one of the Zeller companies in Germany - if memory serves me right, it would have cost me €75 ex Germany.

Why there should be 2 Zeller offerings, one at half the price of the other, I have no idea.

As with them all, from what I read, it's not without problems but better than some……………….

As you say, cheap at that price..

'Petermac
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[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:
I looked at that one in my research Tony.  It's manufactured by one of the Zeller companies in Germany - if memory serves me right, it would have cost me €75 ex Germany.

Why there should be 2 Zeller offerings, one at half the price of the other, I have no idea.

As with them all, from what I read, it's not without problems but better than some……………….

As you say, cheap at that price..
What surprises me is that its still for sale ?
What problems do you think it has Peter ?
Tony.

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[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:
I looked at that one in my research Tony.  It's manufactured by one of the Zeller companies in Germany - if memory serves me right, it would have cost me €75 ex Germany.

Why there should be 2 Zeller offerings, one at half the price of the other, I have no idea.

As with them all, from what I read, it's not without problems but better than some……………….

As you say, cheap at that price..
I the Zellers were originally a couple and subsequenrly split up.  I could be wrong but I think the wife is the one offering the original version

John
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[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:
[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:
I looked at that one in my research Tony.  It's manufactured by one of the Zeller companies in Germany - if memory serves me right, it would have cost me €75 ex Germany.

Why there should be 2 Zeller offerings, one at half the price of the other, I have no idea.

As with them all, from what I read, it's not without problems but better than some……………….

As you say, cheap at that price..
I the Zellers were originally a couple and subsequenrly split up.  I could be wrong but I think the wife is the one offering the original version
Is there any difference between the two John ?
Tony.

"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
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Tony.
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I dont really know Tony.....its a few years since I dug that up....I got the sense that the newer one was a knock off ......but she would say that wouldnt she?

John
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[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:
I dont really know Tony…..its a few years since I dug that up….I got the sense that the newer one was a knock off ……but she would say that wouldnt she?
I have the original from Zeller in Germany but later bought extra saddles from Ten Commandments.
I couldn't see any difference at least in the saddles.
Tony.

"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
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Tony.
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My knowledge is very superficial….I am in danger of confusing matters….my apolgies:oops:
Best wishes

John
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I think you're right John - Marion Zeller's version goes under the name of "Mazero" and her product is around twice the price of the "Kpf Zeller" version.

They look identical but, unless one can physically see them side by side, who knows ………………

You asked about "problems" Tony.  I can only report what I've read as I haven't actually seen one in use.  There appeared to be 3 reported main "snags".  Given the design for each appears identical, I suspect the same "snags"  apply to each.

As you have one of the original ones, you could either confirm or reject what I found out.

Firstly, several users said it was very flexible and, unless well fastened down, tended to twist thus throwing the subject  locomotive off balance with the resulting chaos.  Looking at the design, I can understand this problem.

Secondly, the "rollers" are very small so locos could jump them quite easily.

Thirdly, the rollers are not ball races so there is a certain amount of friction created when in use.  Apparently, unless both loco wheels and roller assemblies are kept spotlessly clean, the friction increases dramatically as does therefore, the frequency of point 2.

Having said that, the unit, even from Ten Commandments, is very attractively priced and, had I not bought the PM one, my money would have gone to Mazero - cheaper for me direct from Germany in euros than from Ten Commandments.

'Petermac
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[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:
I think you're right John - Marion Zeller's version goes under the name of "Mazero" and her product is around twice the price of the "Kpf Zeller" version.

They look identical but, unless one can physically see them side by side, who knows ………………

You asked about "problems" Tony.  I can only report what I've read as I haven't actually seen one in use.  There appeared to be 3 reported main "snags".  Given the design for each appears identical, I suspect the same "snags"  apply to each.

As you have one of the original ones, you could either confirm or reject what I found out.

Firstly, several users said it was very flexible and, unless well fastened down, tended to twist thus throwing the subject  locomotive off balance with the resulting chaos.  Looking at the design, I can understand this problem.

Secondly, the "rollers" are very small so locos could jump them quite easily.

Thirdly, the rollers are not ball races so there is a certain amount of friction created when in use.  Apparently, unless both loco wheels and roller assemblies are kept spotlessly clean, the friction increases dramatically as does therefore, the frequency of point 2.

Having said that, the unit, even from Ten Commandments, is very attractively priced and, had I not bought the PM one, my money would have gone to Mazero - cheaper for me direct from Germany in euros than from Ten Commandments.
I had a piece written but when I went to preview it I lost everything I had written  :roll:
   
  Commenting on the possible problems listed above that users might have had. 
  I haven't experienced any of those problems.
  My Zeller rolling road sits on stands which also came from Zeller. I have never experienced any twisting & there shouldn't be any twisting if the rolling road is laid on a flat surface. A couple of pieces on double sided tape will hold it in place.
  If you hold the rolling road in your hand you can twist it but I can't envisage any user holding it like this with a loco on it.
  I have never had a loco jump off the rollers. The only reason i can see this happening is if the loco wasn't on the rollers correctly in the first place.
  The rollers are so small that i can't see if there are ball races in them or not. They just seem to run on the little round bars that go through them ?
The only problem I have encountered is that you must keep the large bars on which the rollers sit clean. Otherwise you might get current collection problems.
   
  There is a difference between the original Zeller rollers & the ones from Ten Commandments. In the photo below the original Zeller roller is on the left.










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Tony.
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Well there you are Tony.  I will say that most comments seemed favourable which is why it was my No 1 choice until I saw this one. 
Again, from comparing comments, the jumping was caused by the roller sticking slightly, probably caused by dirt creating friction ans, as the rollers are so small, jumping over them isn't too difficult.

Looking at your photo of the rollers, the originals do seem smaller so my guess is that "Kpf" made them slightly larger to reduce the risk of jumping.

Yous on the stand was the first one I saw demonstrated online.  Using straps, you can flip the loco upside down although I'm not sure what advantage this would offer.

Thus far, I haven't experienced any problems at all with mine but it's still early days, i.e. I haven't used it that much - other things are occupying my spare time ….

'Petermac
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[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:
Well there you are Tony.  I will say that most comments seemed favourable which is why it was my No 1 choice until I saw this one. 
Again, from comparing comments, the jumping was caused by the roller sticking slightly, probably caused by dirt creating friction ans, as the rollers are so small, jumping over them isn't too difficult.

Looking at your photo of the rollers, the originals do seem smaller so my guess is that "Kpf" made them slightly larger to reduce the risk of jumping.

Yous on the stand was the first one I saw demonstrated online.  Using straps, you can flip the loco upside down although I'm not sure what advantage this would offer.

Thus far, I haven't experienced any problems at all with mine but it's still early days, i.e. I haven't used it that much - other things are occupying my spare time ….
The idea of the straps is that you could flip the loco upside down & oil the axles, bearings etc without actually having to handle the loco.

Tony. 

"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
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Tony.
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