[user=1407]robberdoc[/user] wrote:

Think it depends on region/company location and era.

chinchiila sand is a generally useful ballast,I have found, the method is sinply pour it on , then use a soft brush to get the right level spray with water the use a mix of 3:3:1 pva water and washing up liquid droppered onto the ballast. leave it alone for 48 hrs then paint in desired colour. using ordinary acrylic paint. i's a pain , takes time but the results are good.  Decorative sand, can produce good results places like Trago The Range and so forth sell various co;ours and grades.

To save a lot of hassle, I mix up my glue in a small squeezy, dropper bottle.
Watered down PVA (plus Klear, if I can find it), splash of meths (not w/up
liquid), then add a dollop of black acrylic paint.
Each bottle ends up a slightly different colour, which gives a natural look to
the ballast. 
Where locos stand you can mix it stronger/darker for that effect.

Jeff

Does the meths have the same effect as the washing up liquid - destroying the surface tension to make the glue run better?  I have heard it said that "methfix" transfers are better than waterslide because they "seat better" but hadn't made this connection.  I must admit that an eye-dropper (my chosen weapon when adding glue to ballast) can sometimes produce bubbles as a result of the w-u-l but they go during the drying process.  I presume that meths doesn't give this interesting feature!!

Barry

Barry,
Yes, meths works well as a 'water wetter' (reducing the surface tension).
You will need to experiment as to the best ratio, but 'about that much'
tends to work for me!

Jeff, thats handy because I have got a bottle of meths somewhere with just about that much in it!!

 

Isopropol is another suggested Alcohol to use  aswell as meths.


Brian

A well covered topic here. Use good quality PVA glue (polyvinyl acetate). Cheap stuff is acidic (acetic acid residue from the chemical manufacturing process). Diluting PVA has it's limits. Try not to go below 50% as the ballast is important in keeping everything in place. I use a mix of 70-75% PVA, 15-20% water, 5-10% IPA (usually 95:5 by volume). All percentages "ish". Doesn't have to be exact. Works for me. Neat PVA is funny stuff, just a drop of water reduces the viscosity dramatically and affects the emulsion characteristics. If it suddenly goes stringy bin it. The PVA has undergone more polymerization and will no longer work. Recommended dilution for bonding is around 3:1 (75%). Using good quality PVA and IPA I have never had discoloration using granite chip ballast.

We all have our techniques, mine is to paint between the sleepers with a narrow straight head brush, sprinkle ballast on.The IPA draws the PVA up by evaporation and capillary action. Misting the ballast with IPA afterwards works as well. No shiny ballast and none on the sleepers or rails. With a bit of practice around 4 feet an hour, more if 2 people work together (one brushing the PVA, one sprinkling ballast). The height of the glue (and ballast) on the sides of the sleepers will vary, JLTRT. If you cut the web off the back of the rails you will also get that spacing under the rails.

Work in a well ventilated space, IPA and methanol are not ethanol. Do not confuse IPA with IPA. Using a detergent to reduce surface tension is fine if it is without fragrances. Cheap no name  unscented brands work OK. One drop in 500 ml is all you need. Same goes for IPA, avoid rubbing alcohol which contains a lot of other stuff.I wear gloves as i am sensitive to PVA.

The composition of Klear/Pledge changed a couple of years ago. OK if you want shiny ballast. Veritable witches brew of chemicals. Best avoided IMO.

Enough alchemy.

Nigel

In my experience Nigel, IPA evaporates very quickly and is expensive (relatively).  It's also highly inflammable.

For that reason, I use washing up liquid as my wetting agent although I'm sure ther must be other, maybe better, products.  WIL is always to hand ………………… :roll:

Cost depends on where you buy it from Peter
link below £4.53 +vat for 1 litre  £14.31 +vat for 5 litres
you buy from electronics shops etc they load up the price.

CFS Fibreglass Supplies.


If you search you will probably find a local supplier at reasonable price.

Just dont have a Fag while your using it LOL
Brian

I don't remember where I bought mine Brian - I bought it online in UK, not France.  I bought a 2 litre bottle I think.  I recall it had to be delivered by courrier which added quite a bit to the cost.

 Never tried to buy it here - I think the nearest they do is "rubbing alcohol" but only 75% ……………..

I'd agree that, if you bought it from a chemist, it would probably be cheaper to replace the track than clean it …………….
 

Costs. Isopropyl alcohol. I get mine at 95% v/v, around $5 for 500ml. That's enough for around 10 liters of ballast glue with the mix I use at 5% IPA. The white glue is much more expensive - around $12 for 500 ml. Professional grade wood working white glue. Lepage brand, which I think is  Yer gits wot yer pay fur.

Nigel

Of the two areas I model, I've discovered That,
Midland and South Western Railway they originally used Chalk as ballast (not very successfully).
Then they switched to a yellow limestone ballast,
Then when GWR took over grey granite.
I suspect in the sidings they still had faded yellow limestone for many years, after the grouping.

Similarly it's reported that Highland Railways used shingle as ballast, was it broken up or used as is? that's not been stated.. There are few good pictures of the ballast to prove this.
Did LMS use Grey granite ballast when they took over?
Did any of the former Highland Railways use the famous Scottish Pink / red ballast.

For the MJSWR, I'm intending in EM gauge to use a mixture of sieved sand off of the beach and grey ballast. Sand of course can be sieved to get rid of the huge stuff, then sieved to get rid of the small stuff, leaving what size you want in the sieve. The beach Nearest to me seems to have a good range of grain sizes…

For the N gauge Highland railways for the moment I'm using grey granite ballast at the moment.

Certainly in years gone by Ballast type was obviously dependent on geography whatever suitable stone was available in a relative local area they would use which will vary all over the country
As The Q said in the west country a lot of granite was used but not only grey granite as there is a great deal of brown granite in the west country so that was used aswell.
I more modern times transportation is better for large volume items so they will now ship aggregate vast distances. 

Brian

Just a warning Q if you're planning a large layout - you do know it's illegal to take sand from a beach …………. :roll:

I'm not surprised their experiments with chalk were unsuccessful - it's extremely soft, soaks up water which then blows it to bits when it freezes …………………  Good for treating acid soils but not for train tracks !!!

Limestone is certainly better but even that, I'd have thought, was too soft to last any real time.

I suspect granite, from whatever region, is now the No 1 choice…………………… :hmm

 Interesting comments on prices for IPA - it seems it's actually cheaper here than in US (I haven't checked the exchange rate) but Brian says £4.50 odd per litre - that's roughly around $3 I'd guess.  Nigel pays $5 for a half litre - nearly twice the price.  As I said, the problem is delivery if you don't have a local supplier.  It can't be posted so has to come by carrier - that added quite a chunk to the cost when I bought mine (in UK).

It does of course, have advantages over soap as a wetting agent - but there's still that problem with evaporation (paticularly here where, in the summer, it's hot !!)
 

Peter look for a french fibre glass supplies company they will sell it at a similar price


Brian

Ah - never thought of fibre glass suppliers Brian - thanks.   :thumbs