Nigel, thanks for the lengthy response.  I would have thought mechanically the short length of a switch rail on an O9 point would habve caused greater stress than the long arm of say an O gauge point, but whatever, the practice of soldering switch rails to a PCB tie bar seems to me to be asking for trouble. Not so bad when you have a bit of ballast around, but very disruptive in the event of a failure if everything is surrounded by nicely coloured filler and ground cover, as mine will be, being an old canal yard.  Hence the security of pins rotating in a tie bar. A dummy can be arranged for show.
The whole power routing/rectangle thing smacks of Triang grey track and Series 3 black stuff to me and was dispensed with when I was about 9 I think!  I then had peco, which my Dad wired for me with Peco motors and switches, which he put on a control panel, none of which I understood for a moment.  I'm afraid if I ain't interested, I can't learn it and lecktrickery comes under that heading, although as that was my Dad' later business I did once learn all the values of resistor colour bands and the gold and silver ones too, but now have no idea beyond a basic idea of what they do.
I shall just get busy with a multi meter to ensure there are no shorts in the basic construction.  Actually making the point is no problem for me.  When you've made as many brass masters of everything from 1/5th scale engines to 1/200th scale aircraft with missiles and everything in between, as I have (over 500), filing a few bits of rail holds no fears.

Cheers,
Martin

Hi Martin,

Peco out of the box today is power routed. Insulfrog excepted. Nothing wrong with it except the gaps between the closure rails just before the frog and between the point blades and rail need to be sufficient to prevent shorts. The reason for showing that Shinohara was to illustrate that if you treat the points as a rectangle it's obvious why pins are not necessary. The trade-off is that the bar will move in a small arc. The length of which is dependent on the distance  between the blade and rail. Give me a few minutes and I will take a photo of a modern turnout from ME with fixed tie bar.

I didn't get what you were saying about leaving spaces. You need to do that whether you use ballast or top it up with muck to the rail head. Point rails, the frog V, and the tie bar. And the check rail gaps.

One thing I have learned over the years in building my own points is that accuracy in key areas is paramount. Along with the correct tools. 

Fast Tracks have some excellent online video tutorials, including pins.

EDIT: https://www.handlaidtrack.com/ Templates are downloadable and free. Useful for rough alignment of track. Rail spacer jigs/rollers should always be used. Their frog/blade jig comes in a range of frog numbers, and is very useful for making sure the frog is also at the correct angle when soldering up. You can cut the angle for a #6, soldering it up without a jig can give anything between a #5.5 and #6.5. A DITD issue. I also use Templot, but given your comments on computers this may not be appropriate. That said, it is great for understanding and getting the geometry of a turnout correct, especially for that #7.25 frog that you just need. I have nothing to do with Fast Tracks or Templot (http://www.templot.com/), just one satisfied user.

Nigel

  EDIT: Some pictures of a modern turnout from Micro-Engineering. This is an On30 code 83 turnout, DCC ready to go out of the box, no power routing, same rails as their HO version, the sleepers/ties are O narrow gauge scale. Note the jumpers between running rail and closure rail.




Blade ends. Fixed in place (rail bottom has a tab embedded in the bar), no rotation or longitudinal movement. The bar described a barely discernible arc moving from one side to another.




Closure rail end. Hinged using rail joiners. Closure ends fixed. This where all the movement takes place. Bit like a see-saw (teeter-totter for those of us in the US or Canada), all the movement is at the end away from the pivot. Rail jumper to the right of the upper hinge. Big enough for 15 amp!




Comparison between the Shinohara and M-E turnout to show the difference in blade-rail distance. The gap is always a bit of a compromise, even without power routing, unless all the back-to-back distances of the stock are known. If you just want to take photographs then it can be scale prototype distance, as long as the wheel flanges fit. If you want to play trains that's a different story. And another DITD. Especially with OOn9, where some of those old N-scale chassis have over-flanged pizza-cutter wheels. Even the new ones are not much better (bin there, dun that).




And lastly the frog "insulation". Air gaps at either end. Not a plastic rail joiner in sight. In most cases (probably an 0-2-0 excepted) electrical continuity is maintained by the locomotive wheels. Option to wire the frog underneath of course. Note the narrowest distance between the closure rails is on the frog casting, minimal risk of shorting. Same for the other end.The frog point is always slightly rounded (even on the prototype) and reduced in height, otherwise interesting things start to happen. Closure rails are curved, frogs are normally straight, getting the two to meet without causing the locomotive wheels to jerk is another DITD. Transition curve calculation is another interesting topic, as you really want one that increases or decreases the curvature as a function of the length. Oozlum bird territory. The math is way beyond me. That's why most designs put the curve well before the frog, and where spacer jigs become essential, and having a radius meeting the frog can be avoided.

Nigel, I need no help with making them, they are metal after all and that's what I do. It was merely the tie bar method and wiring I knew nothing of and now I do, so many thanks to all.  The filler, making all flush with the rail tops is a lot more messy to dig up than a bit of ballast. Having done both before to repair switch rails on a club track, I know which I'd rather do. Hence rotating pins through an insulated (Perspex probably) tiebar. Hand operated point levers both ends of the loop. It's no more unbelievable than points which change themselves. And saves all that guff under the board.

Martin

Hi Martin,

With apologies to Katherine Dines:

De tie bar connected to de blade rail
De blade rail connected to re point rail
De point rail connected to de closure rail,
Now shake dem rusty rails

Dem rails, dem rails, dem rusty rails….*

It's all related when it comes to points.

Let us know how you get in with some pictures. 

Nigel

*For the pc, that's how many of the locals speak here. And how I was taught this song  as a round back in the 1950's in Oxfardsheer. By Miss "hit  your knuckles with the ruler" Stratford. Who taught my mum. Revenge probably.

Nigel,
these are two rough and ready canal wharf points, which I knocked up in an afternoon last weekend to finish the main unfinished bit of the board. As long as the N-Drive stuff doesn't actually fall off, I'm happy. It may be 7mm scale, but it sure ain't S7.  I couldn't be doin' with that, but I DID make gauges on the lathe and I did make sure the alignment of the frog rails is smooth.  #Numbers?  No idea what all that is about, but the guys who banged this bit of 15" track down wouldn't have had a clue about that!  This is industrial at its simplest.  I'm beginning to be very glad I don't have space for a layout!  Too tight to buy, too busy to make any more than these two!
Thanks for all the pictures and explanations, but you really shouldn't go further as you'll leave me way behind!

Cheers,
Martin

Hi Martin,

Hold on a minute, is this On9 (or the 7mm 1:43 equivalent)? In which case anything goes, including the kitchen sink. 9mm track, N-Track mechanisms (had a few of those in the past). Here I was thinking N-scale. Sounds like my track crew, Blodgit (he can't spell), Fudgit and their new best mate Wingit.

I came across an interesting narrow gauge outfit who were clearing some timber stands in the south of Virginia in the 1900's. Hardwood timber rails taking small 6-10 ton locomotives . Probably had live frogs. You seem to be doing fine without all the technical stuff, let sleeping frogs alone. Although if you do any more you might want to have a quick gander to see what you've been missing. Then again…

Nigel

Nigel, we just call it O9, as in 7mm scale (our stupid O gauge) on 9mm track, representing 15-18" gauge estate railways. We don't tend to use the n in the middle. But it tends to mean the use of chassis for anything from N gauge to the very popular OO9.  O9 is a relatively recent use for a 9mm chassis. I've done brass masters for n-Drive for a Wisbech and Upwell tram loco in N gauge (2mm scale), an Andrew Barclay in 2mm, Effie, Lilliput, Dickie, Ruston ZLH and Baguley in O9 and a Quarry Hunslet in OO9.  I will be shortly doing him a Kitson in 2mm scale, too. I also did a toast rack coach and a gunpowder wagon in O9.  
So with so many bits done in O9, I thought it best to squeeze in a bit of 9mm track on the canal wharf to show off his stuff should he wish to borrow the set-piece for a show.

Cheers,
Martin

Hi Martin,

Conventional over here to use n to denote narrow gauge. On30, On2, On2.5 for example. When I was doing UK narrow gauge 15 years ago OO was OO-9, O was O-16.5, etc. Peco still call it that. Blame eBay and tweeting/texting and the character limits for the habit of leaving the hyphen out. I still use a lot of 1:43 on the 1:48 build, adds a bit of mass. A Simplex turtle is on the list.

O16.5 and 016.5 look identical to most people. The hyphen or n make it clear which flavor of O is being referred to.

Nigel

True, I guess, a;though we just don't do stuff with a view to the American side of things, so O9 is automatically thought of as 7mm scale, 9mm narrow gauge. As to O or 0, well I've no idea. If we were counting down from 3 gauge to 1 gauge, I guess the next would be numerically rather than alphabetically 0, but I always type O.  Never mind we know what we mean  I do wish we used 1/48th scale thouigh. I had to make a De Havilland Hornet Moth to 1/43rd scale to use it with a 1/43rd scale AC 16/90 I'd made the master for years ago.

Martin

Hi Martin,

Fair number of non-UK modelers in the club who use different terminologies. 

Nigel

Another aspect of the hobby that never reached standardisation.
Imagine explaining the scales and gauges to a Martian!  

Martin