Kit bashing a GATANEAL kit from the 1980`s

.  .  .  and this year's award for understatement of the year goes to .  .  .

I think I got away with it !!!!

Cor blimey guvnor, I'd say so!





Bill



 :doublethumb

Hi John,

Very nice indeed, even down to the cab sunshades. Do you have a reference for the black roof? I have no photo's of a black section pre-WW2, they're all white, and they all had black/grey from WW2 on. I always assumed this was where the cleaners broom didn't reach. I'm asking because I'm planning on starting #11 in 4mm scale/EM gauge. This is sides and ends only, all brass, making a roof (and floor) can't be any worse than what you went through.

Sound now. Let the fun start. What did you end up using? I have more than a passing interest in this. My research shows that DCC sound for the early GWR diesel railcars may require  something quite different compared to #19 and above. Number 1 had one  engine, numbers 2-6 started on 1 engine, with the second one  automatically coming in at 10 mph. The earlier models had 4-speed  gearboxes, Swindon body built models (numbers 19-38) had 5 speed  gearboxes, and numbers 19 and 21 had selectable low and high ratios. The  AEC engines on numbers 1-18 ran at 2000 rpm (maximum 2400 rpm, 80 mph) and had Ricardo heads,  from number 19 on they ran at 1650 rpm (larger cylinders and  injectors). The horns had dual tones apparently based on French CF du  Nord klaxons and not e-flat/f-flat horns as on BR.

The last time I spoke to Howes about this (late 2014) they were still negotiating to record the Swindon-built one at Didcot. This beastie never gets out of 2nd gear and runs on one engine (I believe the other one was cannibalized to get the better one working, that's what the staff told me anyway), so anything from this would require a lot of editing. I currently have a massaged 2nd generation railcar sound suite to reflect the fact that they rarely ran above 30 mph (or got out of 2nd gear) that Howes prepared for me. I did suggest they go and find an old London bus with an AEC 6 cylinder engine, record that and double it. Wherein lies an issue. The early ones (up to #18) with Ricardo heads sound different to the later ones. DITD.

Running these railcars was interesting, and makes a DCC sound suite challenging. The following is for the later cars (19 on) but I'm pretty sure it would have applied to the earlier ones as well (1 and 2 excepted). The engines were started sequentially, and allowed to run until warm and sufficient vacuum for the brakes, horns and ATC klaxon was achieved. This could take 15 minutes or so from cold. Depending on the ruling gradient and load, gear 1 or 2 was selected. For a short run between stations such as Kingham or Chipping Norton to "Churchill Halt" (I used to know that stretch of country well), it would have at most reached 20-25 mph in 2nd gear, and coasted to the next station/halt. At around 10 mph neutral was selected. For reversing or the driver changing ends, the engines were stopped, the reverse gearbox engaged, and the engines restarted as above. One of the major maintenance items was from drivers stripping gears by forgetting to stop the engine when engaging the reverse gearbox. For mainline running all 4 ratios would be used with a top speed of around 70 mph.

Nigel

brilliant build John,,and the paint job spot onwell done sir
:thumbs :thumbs ;-) :cool:
Owen

Thanks for all your kind comments.
Thanks Nigel for your insight into how these AEC diesels actually performed.

I can`t find my photo references at the moment but have seen pics of the AEC having two tone white roofs as built with the darker tone as per the black area……… and No 12 seen here running down to Weymouth in the 1930`s.









Youchoos produce a GWR railcar soundfile based on recordings of the preserved example at Didcot.  I have been very impressed with their GWR loco recordings of actual preserved stock, but am a little disappointed with this one.
I`ll let you decide later…………………………………


It is said…. that you should`nt work with `live` chassis when it comes to decoders.   With this kit I had no choice as each axle has only one insulated wheel………….

So, off I wented……… and fitted a Zimo decoder.





All ran well for a few days……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Then    ` all stop and watch the blue smoke` appear from under the chassis…………….. Oh! FFFFFancy that I thought.

Now I had notice that the smoke appeared from the speaker end and not the decoder. But expecting the worst I removed the decoder and noticed an obvious fault………………………………..



See if you can spot it !!!!……………………………………………………………………….


so, off it went back to Youchoos who removed the offending part and then told me it had not blown !!!!

So back to the drawing board.

I eventually discovered that a small length of wire wool had trapped itself between an insulated wheel and the `live` chassis and became red hot when power was applied. This had burnt off the lubricating oil causing the smoke !!!!

So, after setting it all up again this has been the result………………………………………………………………………





 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdzgF7XRM0

Hi John Picture of the week well done, You made confiagration work well, Nice job on paint work.
I wish peco would make rail track like your,s look,s great

Best of Luck from a cold  3c South Wales

Noviceman.

Hi and thanks David
The track is ready to lay lengths by C&L and their track kits are good too.


Regards

John

looks and sounds fine,as for the fault " 2 purple wires ? " I have never heard about not using decoders with live axles ,all my old hornby stock are live and no bother .
:thumbs ;-) :cool:
Owen

Hi Nigel.

I do believe that "Churchill Halt " was in fact called "Sarsden Halt " situated right on the borders of my old boarding school, Kingham Hill.


 Messing about with the point mechanism on one unhappy occasion that led off into the single road coal siding earn't me six of the best from our not so very amused headmaster and, as I can still recall, neither was I and, even less so, my backside !! Anyway, a week or so later two boys nicked the crossing keepers bike and tried to flog it to the bike hire guy in the village which failed miserably for which both suffered the same fate but got eight each instead of the complimentary six - Sarsden Halt, as far as we boys were concerned, was truly and painfuly cursed !!


Allan

Your absolutely right Alan……
I think though it was called Sarsden because of the influence of the local Big K* ^ B.  The nearest village is Churchill so I have restored the balance as it were……

Here is my version of the crossing gates……………..




John

A truly superb model John, could that pannier by any chance be the "Chippie Dick" also referred to as the "Banbury Tin Can " ?


Whatever, the original was so temperamental that often it  was hard pressed to reach either !


As a sprog I was raised in a boys home in Bucks and come the day of delivery to KH Boarding school a super efficient King Class dropped me and some old hag of a matron off at Kingham Station where we transferred to the one coach local that dropped us off at Sarsden Halt where it was pointed out to me that "Your new school's somewhere up that hill, behave yourself or else " where I was left to make my own way up to the admin offices, grunted at by some wretched secretary, issued with an il fitting uniform, a  pair of shoes and a cap, then told to report to my designated house where my housemaster didn't seem the slightest bit interested in me other than to warn me from within his dark, depressing study to "Behave yourself boy, if  you don't, you'll be feeling the bite of this"  as he waved a wicked looking cane in my face then informed me in a detached manner " You're in dorm three, second bed. Up at six, cold shower, housework then breakfast. " as I planned my first  escape.


Halycon days to be sure…


Allan

[user=1427]allan downes[/user] wrote:

Hi Nigel.

I do believe that "Churchill Halt " was in fact called "Sarsden Halt " situated right on the borders of my old boarding school, Kingham Hill.


 Messing about with the point mechanism on one unhappy occasion that led off into the single road coal siding earn't me six of the best from our not so very amused headmaster and, as I can still recall, neither was I and, even less so, my backside !! Anyway, a week or so later two boys nicked the crossing keepers bike and tried to flog it to the bike hire guy in the village which failed miserably for which both suffered the same fate but got eight each instead of the complimentary six - Sarsden Halt, as far as we boys were concerned, was truly and painfuly cursed !!


Allan

Hi Allan,

Correct, Churchill Crossing (a level crossing with gate keepers house and ground frame) was just up the road from Sarsden Halt heading towards Kingham.

Nigel

[user=1780]Twobolt[/user] wrote:

See if you can spot it !!!!……………………………………………………………………….


so, off it went back to Youchoos who removed the offending part and then told me it had not blown !!!!

So back to the drawing board.

I eventually discovered that a small length of wire wool had trapped itself between an insulated wheel and the `live` chassis and became red hot when power was applied. This had burnt off the lubricating oil causing the smoke !!!!

So, after setting it all up again this has been the result………………………………………………………………………





 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdzgF7XRM0

Hi John,

That's the photo I was thinking of (not the decoder). I had always put that down to where the cleaner's brooms and rags couldn't reach the middle. It's an interesting modeling detail though.

Live chassis and DCC? The only thing that really needs attention is that nothing should be exposed and in contact with the chassis half of the circuit. Which means lots of heat-shink and/or insulated mini-connectors. I've got a few live-bodied brass running at the moment which have split axles and live bodies. The only one that is problematic is a weird design where the 2 bogies were live and of opposite polarity. Problematic in DC, bordering on stupidity in DCC.

I had a look at the decoder picture and couldn't see anything amiss (overheated chips and melted heat shrink or melted wires for example). Steel wool was the culprit then. I'll remember in future to keep it away from the engines.

 It was interesting to hear your comments on the GWR sound files. IMO trying to record the running one at Didcot is not the best way to approach it given the track limitations there, especially for one of the earlier "banana" models. I'm quite happy with the one that Howes did to my specifications on an ESU v4 using 2nd generation diesel railcar recordings (even down to the French klaxons). I did ask them specifically to limit it to 2nd gear and 25 mph, as it would be running on a plank, not a full blown layout. That was for a Swindon body one, If I get around to the 4mm "banana" I may revise that to 4 speeds and 65 mph. If ever there was a model that begged for real stereo sound with 2 speakers it's this one. I'll have to make do with 2 non-stereo speakers. Very few manufacturers have real stereo, QSI is one but them to do that sound file is impractical.

Nigel
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Superb model John  :doublethumb

Amazing work John! It looks fantastic! Good job :)