Heavy duty bus and thin droppers??

[user=1338]Ed[/user] wrote:

Something I typed up ages ago from various sources.

Bit approximate, but may be of use as a rough guide.





Ed

Hi Ed,

Useful information, seems to be on the "chassis" wiring side rather than "power line" side. Especially 17 gauge for 6-10 amps for bus wiring, which should probably be considered as power line wiring as it could conceivably carry something near that load under the right circumstances (big layout with lots of engines running at the same time). I know my first layout with DCC used 18 gauge wire for the bus (it was to hand) and never had any problems. Only one engine at a time though.

Nigel

Chassis load is usually less than the power line. 

Save

I use 7/0.2 for my droppers (I think  :roll:) so that table just shows how necessary it is to have a dropper for each piece of track.  If not, one could soon run up a fair old demand if running several locos with sound and lights, plus some lit coaches with a dropper only every 3 or 4 yards - particularly if a few of those trains happened to end up on the same "feed block" …………………. :shock:

Hi PeterMac,

7/0.2. 7 cores of 0.2mm diameter. Somewhere between 23 and 24 gauge equivalent. Spot on for a 2 amp DCC set-up with modern engines and code 100 track.

Nigel

Hi Kevin
 I found this copy of a book on the net some time ago .
 although it goes deeper into electronics  than you will
 ever need to go , I have always found it handy to have around .
 There is a free download if you want .
The title is Electronics For Model Railways .  Just type the name
 in the google search box .
 Regards Ted
 

Hi Ted.   Thank you for your reply, I will have to download that and see where I go from there. All the best. Kevin

just to say what 12vlt can do I recently had an incident on my set-up where a fish plate / joiner became glowing red hot because of poor conductivity, code 100 rail and 4amp supply, lucky I was in there at the time
:thumbs ;-) :cool:
Owen

… and I've just fried a Peco solenoid point motor by not taking the time to check my wiring… at least I think I have… it was hot, had that burning electric smell and now won't work! 
Kevin, 
I was a complete novice with electronics and wiring when I first started 10 years ago, I took the time to try and learn as much about electronics as I could and have really enjoyed the process. I now know enough to be dangerous!

Enjoy

Hi Marty.   My first Hornby OO railway I kept away from their point motors, and went for Hammant and Morgan , my local " toy shop " sold all types of railway models including "German. Railways" well he was a German , after allAnd I purchased some German made passing contact switches that worked a treat. Not really for me ?? but I have been recommended to buy."Tortoise Switch Machines" as The easiest to wire , and the most reliable.
all the best. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

The Tortoise switch machine is DC. For DCC operation you need the SMAIL which has a built-in DCC decoder or a third-party DCC decoder such as the "Hare" that will supply the DC current (12v, 16 mAmp). It's easier (and cheaper) to have a 500 mAmp 12v transformer and a separate DC circuit.

Nigel

Hi Owen.   Something has got to change? If you are confident that it wasn't your workmanship then maybe you had a bad length of wire. Personally I'm no expert but I have read about "Flux" deteriating the joint and causing such a problem , if you use "Flux" for flux sake don't forget to clean up after you. What about additional smoke detectors? all the best. Kevin

[user=1940]Ted[/user] wrote:

Hi Kevin
 I found this copy of a book on the net some time ago .
 although it goes deeper into electronics  than you will
 ever need to go , I have always found it handy to have around .
 There is a free download if you want .
The title is Electronics For Model Railways .  Just type the name
 in the google search box .
 Regards Ted
 

Hi Ted,

The Circuitron booklet? If so it doesn't touch track wiring. Nice reference booklet though.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.   Thank you , maybe the person that recommended them to me, didn't realise that I was using DCC?If? and before I make such a recommendation again I better be careful, for instance is the job straight forward? And does it cos much?   All the best. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

A separate DC circuit is required for Tortoises (and Cobalts). A 12V 2A transformer will set you back £3.50-£4.50. Enough for 80-100 all motors at once. SPDT switches are less than £1.00 each.

Decoder control is going to be at least an additional £10.00 per turnout, and depending on which one may still require a dedicated DC circuit. If the decoder uses DCC bus power it's advisable to use a separate booster circuit for the turnouts  that is isolated from the running tracks. Which probably means upgrading the system with a booster. Just in case…

You can change frog polarity and activate signals from the stall motors (for the Tortoise there are 2 SPDT switches with 4A capacity each, same for the Cobalt I believe), which will effectively give you interlocking. With the Tortoise you can also control a signal and crossing gate mechanically with the "Remote Signal Activator", which is a wire-in-tube fulcrum system.

Of course mechanical WIT mechanisms and kits are available with 1 or 2 SPDT switches if you want to forget about the electrickery and keep it purely mechanical (for example Blue Point switch machine, Fast Tracks "Bull Frog"). Which of course appeals to the Luddite in me (and keeps the amount of wiring down). I fancy the "Bull Frog" kit for the crossover I recently built. $22.00 for the mechanisms, SPDT switches and WIT in components, no DC circuit, no decoders, and I have frog polarity changing built-in. That's for the club modules, I'll probably go with Tortoises for home (US made so no import duty, 9 years warranty).

Ah, the tyranny of choice!

Nigel

Hi Nigel.    Thank you, now you can see why I prefer the (sometimes?) straight forward WITall the best.  Kevin

Also look at Cobalt motors, Kevin.

Much smaller than the Tortoise and equally as good.

I've tried them both.

Cobalt Collection - Realism for your Model Railway Layout!

My final choice - servos.

Hi Max.  Thank you, but don't get me wrong? As I was replying to Marty's  thread. DCC wiring can be complicated enough without adding more bundles of wire. Some undersides of baseboards tend to look more like Medical Teaching Mannequins?      all the best. Kevin

[user=1632]BCDR[/user] wrote: Hi Kevin,

The Tortoise switch machine is DC. For DCC operation you need the SMAIL which has a built-in DCC decoder or a third-party DCC decoder such as the "Hare" that will supply the DC current (12v, 16 mAmp). It's easier (and cheaper) to have a 500 mAmp 12v transformer and a separate DC circuit.

Nigel

For DCC operation the best accessory decoder for Tortoises is the NCE Switch 8 (MK2 version).  This has 8 ports and each can operate a pair of motors for crossovers - I have one that has 15 Tortoises connected. They cost around $60 in the US, around £40 in the UK.  They also have an optional input from a 9-12v DCC transformer if you do not want them to use DCC bus power.

I have mine on a separate DCC bus with its own booster so that turnouts can still be operated if the main track bus has suffered a short circuit due to derailment, wrong point setting etc.

Hi  Nigel
 In your reply regarding point motors you state that cobalt motors need a
 separate DC supply .  Cobalt point motors will operate on both a  DCC & DC supply.
 I have several cobalt motors wired directly to the DCC supply with a small resister to
 reduce the voltage to approx. 10v. They are probably the easiest decoder to program
 The inbuilt decoder has an aux switch ,which can be used to operate other accs.
 :)
  Regards Ted

Hi Robert,

I didn't mention it as it's hijacking Kevin's thread. Around $54 or less for the Switch-8 Mk2, which works out at around $6.50 per motor, $3.25 if you double up the Tortoise. Add the button board to keep the wiring sane.

I'm in the fortunate position of having to deal with relatively few turnouts, either at home or on the modules. Most club members have ground throw levers with SPDT switches built-in (Caboose Industries) which change the frog polarity, $4.79 each. No decoders, minimal wiring, no DC circuit.Getting fingers in-between a couple of trains to throw the switch gets interesting, hence my interest in the even more hands-on approach of Blue Points and Bull Frogs.

Like Max I've tried Tortoises and Blue Cobalts (and Peco solenoids, got a bag full of them somewhere). Unlike Max I lean towards Tortoises. Both get the job done. Tortoises are $1.30 cheaper than a Cobalt Classic from my favorite box-shifter.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.    What or Who is a box shifter?     all the best. Kevin