Assembling Kadee Couplers

Good advice there Bill. :thumbs

Kadee's aren't the B all of everything Kevin.  It does depend on what grabs you. :cheers

Hi Bill.  Thank you very much for your input. And when I saw that on YouTube I was really delighted with the idea, until that is, I had the tension hook fall off of several of my wagons "Bachmann " "Oxford" and "Dapol"
I did write to these company's explaining my dilemma , I even had replies and replacement Tension Locks, but, the beauty of the Kadee once
(That is if they get) fitted, you can uncouple at the magnet, and then loose shunt the wagon further along the track, without coupling up and going through the bother of uncoupling again. Maybe I had a bad batch of wagons? albeit from different companies?? all the best. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

If your stock has NEM pockets just go with the #17-#20 couplers. They are a bit clunky looking, being underset, but no butchery, hackery or gluing. A judicious mix of #17/#18 will get the correct distance for 24"-36" radius curves. You will need #19 for passenger coaches (or even a #20 if the NEM pocket is on the bogie). If you ever need to put in a regular coupler, there are much better choices than "Ol' Reliable" #5.

#5 works fine on a lot of North American stock (which is where it should stay), but unless the buffer shank on UK stock is a match lengthwise and the height of the underbody is spot on it does mean butchery,  hackery, shimming and gluing. #5 comes as a medium length, centerset coupler, that's it! As such it's a poor choice for most UK applications unless you are prepared to do some often major surgery.

If you use the whisker couplers from the 15x series they come in 3 lengths, with underset, centerset and overset versions, and no messing about with brass box springs. If you use the 2x/3x series with brass box springs you also have a choice of 3 lengths and underset, centerset and overset versions.

I would never use recyled Kadee couplers or loose ones in a box, it's false economy. Always buy new.

Nigel

Actually Nigel, ever since I started in this game nearly 30 years ago, I usually used #5 couplers for 4 wheeled wagons.  These days I tend to use the "scale" equivalent (#58 I think).  For RTR wagons I haven't found the butchery to be all that severe (subjective I suppose).

Because I don't much like the prominence of the NEM types as you point out, I usually remove the dovetail, add some plastic card packing and glue on the coupling.  I don't think it gets much simpler.

Agree about the whisker design, I believe I mentioned these above.

I used to use #7s for coach bogies, but I've come round to the view that the coupling should be on the coach (#5 or equiv), leaving the bogie to get on with its job without having to wrestle with the adjacent vehicle.  The downside is that the coach bogie will foul the coupling.  For my Pull Push project, I opted to remove the connection at the front of the bogie.   Then again, I tend to use a permanent coupling system I learned from Tony Wright for most coaches with only the coach coupled to the loco needing a Kadee.

John

Hi John,

I believe Kevin doesn't to do any modifications unless he has to, which is why the NEM couplers are a good choice. #5 is fine as long as long as some work is done. My point is it's probably not the best for one for UK stock given the sometimes substantial differences in buffer shank length. There is only one length with a #5, and it only comes in centerset, the gearbox is big, and any height adjustment requires either material removal or shimming. Plus that box spring is fiddly. I won't even use them on North American stock. For that I use the 14x fine scale whisker series as height adjustment is rarely necessary. Kevin can use the Parkside Dundas mounting blocks with his Ratio bogie van if he wants to use the NEM Kadee coupler (which is designed for European HO, not UK OO, and the reason why it's underset).


Nigel

The issue of couplings can be contentious and I think people seem to develop their own preferences.   Kevin will need to experiment to figure out the best system for him - could even be tension lock.

Agree about the NEMs - if you want to plug and play…literally, these are the way to go despite the appearance.

I stopped using NEMs for the most part because I want my couplings to be as unobtrusive as I can make them, but I still like #5 equivalents.

John

Hi Nigel.  and John,   I actually do want to modify my 4 wheel wagons, as well as my 0-6-0 shunting loco's , but with the decoder and speaker it makes the Loco's being a bit more complicated I might require a wagon with a tension lock one end and a Kadee at the other end, but that rather complicates matters, as far as the shunting puzzle works.
If between the three of us, and anyone else, we could agree on a suitable formula for a simple chap like me, then I can "Hack the mount off first wagon as necessary?" buy which ever gearboxes and any packing that I may require and once the first wagon matches the Kadee Gauge, get on with the rest, before I progress to the Loco's. I may have to buy myself a "Razor saw" to do the modifications?
I do have a "Piercing Saw" and various files and drills. Please advise!
    all the best Kevin

A razor saw is always a useful gadget to have in your toolbox Kevin but I've never found it much use for fitting Kadees - too big !!!  Edge snips and files are my preferred weapons.

Each manufacturer of wagons could require a different approach to the alterations - there's no "standard" method.  The key is the height gauge.  That IS standard.  To achieve the correct height, some makes will need shims, others will need bits of the underframe filing down.  If memory serves me right, the only ones I've found to be perfect for the gearbox (contrary to some comments, I use #5 with the gearbox on most wagons), are Dapol with all the moulded bits filed down to the underframe bracing and the hook moulded onto the buffer beam removed.  I then assemble the coupling in the gearbox and just glue it on.

I'll see if I can find a photo somewhere ……………….

Hi Kevin,

On reading your above post, my advice is to practice, practice and practice some more on some old wagons before taking a razor saw anywhere near your newer valuable stock. You need to be reasonably confident to successfully carry out the modifications, even simple ones, before you let loose on your favourites.

Are you absolutely certain tension locks are not for you? Perhaps try shunting on your plank as it is with your current stock and see  if you enjoy it sufficiently to start the mods.

Whatever you do, remember to enjoy the experience.

All the best,

Bill

I can see why Kevin wants to go down the Kadee route on his "puzzle" Bill.

TL's are great for pulling and can be uncoupled using either a ramp or, after a bit of "doctoring", magnetically.  The problem is, pushing the uncoupled wagon.  Once you do that, they re-hook.  The Kadee delayed coupling mechanism means you can uncouple magnetically at a chosen point in the train, then push the whole train into the siding where, as long as you don't "shuffle" at all, it will separate at the previously uncoupled wagon.  To my knowledge, you can't do that with any form of TL's ……….:roll::roll::roll:

You can Peter………… sort of

(WARNING - Music on the video is a bit loud )


http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=11121&forum_id=21&page=38#p222692


Think there are versions done with clear styrene, as Gormo mentions.


Ed

Thanks Ed and well remembered. I knew I'd seen it done successfully but couldn't remember where! I think Gary might have had something similar as well. I'd better check when I have a few more minutes. 

Cheers from the heat of laying steps and paths in the wonderful summer heat. I'll need a cold one soon!

Bill

 :cheers

[user=1801]Passed Driver[/user] wrote:

If between the three of us, and anyone else, we could agree on a suitable formula for a simple chap like me, then I can "Hack the mount off first wagon as necessary?" buy which ever gearboxes and any packing that I may require and once the first wagon matches the Kadee Gauge, get on with the rest, before I progress to the Loco's.

Hi Kevin,

Unfortunately there's no one specific way. I use whatever works. Xurons or simular for removing most of the plastic mount (after removing any screws), coarse files for getting rid of what's left, various grades of abrasive paper, and an engineers square for making sure it's flat. Saws I try and keep away from, as you need a flexible one with a flat side/cutting side, and they are very expensive. If I have to use one I use a very fine modeling blade in a scalpel-type holder, as there is minimal kerf. I use a box cutter (Stanley knife) with heavy duty snap blades for trimming up. Not really necessary.

I use Kadee shims for dropping the coupler. They're black, and fit the shape of a #5 gearbox. If I have to drop it significantly I use an overset coupler with shims as required rather than a thick piece of styrene. On those rare occasions where the height of the coupler head needs to be raised I use an underset coupler with shims as required rather than try and take off material from the underside of the floor and sole plate.

I attach the coupler using screws, the hole for the 2-56 center one is drilled and tapped. You can use self-tapping 2-56 screws. and as long as the lip of the gearbox is against the edge of the sole plate glue is not necessary. If you have to glue because of shimming, always use a screw to attach the lid.  

I use whisker couplers, this gets rid of the fiddle of putting in the brass box spring.

For tight spaces I use #252 gearboxes, useful for bogie stock (freight and diesels) where there is little clearance between the end of the bogie and the body shell. Some material may have to be removed from the corners of the bogie frame to ensure adequate clearance.

You can add Parkside Dundas dovetail mounts and Bachmann NEM dovetails and pockets from their NEM tension lock coupler packs if you want to use #17-#21 couplers.  I have found this impractical in locomotives. It works for freight vans/trucks. I stopped doing it some years ago when I moved from NEM to regular couplers (same reason as John - appearance).

Bogie mounted tension hooks can be snipped off, and an underset Kadee can be attached to the bogie if desired (yes, Kadee do a gearbox for this).

I service the couplers once a year (in rotation, not all at once!).

Take Bill's advice, get some old models and practice. You will quickly develop what works for you. The above is based on some 200+ conversions. Sometimes a bit of a challenge, but always fun and and a satisfying end result.

I have a Hornby B-set with bogie tension locks that needs converting, plus an old mainline Warship, both have limited space, I'll post the conversions

Nigel

Hi Petermac.   Thank you,  as it so happens, most of my wagons are Dapol, with a smattering of Bachmann , and Oxford. I am thinking about a wagon kit, to get some practice , and maybe having loose parts may just make it easier to fit Kadee? all the best Kevin

[user=1338]Ed[/user] wrote:

You can Peter………… sort of

(WARNING - Music on the video is a bit loud )


http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=11121&forum_id=21&page=38#p222692


Think there are versions done with clear styrene, as Gormo mentions.


Ed

Keen Systems do a tension lock (mini) that uncouples via a solenoid and DCC controller. Works well as long as there is space in the loco. Best in a tender or at the back of a tank engine. Good luck getting it the front.

Kadee magnets - 2 types. Delayed and none-delayed. For shunting after uncoupling you need the delayed type. No idea whether neodymium mini's do this as I don't use them. My Rapido Railcrew electromagnetic uncouplers will do delayed uncoupling quite happily.

Nigel


Save

Hi Bill.   Thank you, when I saw "Tension Lock couplers with Staples glued to the droppers and operated by Magnets" on YouTube, I tried it for myself
and at first, it worked, But, the droppers kept falling off, at the wrong time.
As they had been falling off, from new, I realised that things would not get any better. 40 odd years ago, I never had such a problem, but back then the Hornby uncouplers were, as I'm sure you'll know "Enormus lumps of plastic between the rails". But things have moved on, I'm glad to say.
all the best. Kevin

I thought it was the coupling that was delayed rather than the magnet Nigel ……………….:roll::roll::roll:

I'm struggling to get my mind round a "delayed magnet" - other than electro-magnets, surely it's either a magnet or it isn't ……….:???:

A matter of words Petermac - Kadee say that but they are both magnets but the non-delayed does not pull the glad arm all the way across to give the delayed feature on the coupler itself as the non-delayed magnet is narrower compared to the "delayed" version
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page312.htm
and
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page321.htm

Typical Americans, they never have got the hang of using the language properly, and don't get me started on their attempts at spelling!

Hi Jeff.  They do save a lot on printing though, five pages on an average book?   all the best. Kevin