Ratio 592 SR / BR 28 ton Bogie B

Tried 3 Beetles over the years, slight dimension issues with all three and too much flash on 2 of them. Could have been the batch of plastic/run as I bought them all at the same time.

Try regular grey primer (Canadian Tire) versus Testors model primer, there is a difference (and not just the price). The imperfections that primer fills just happen to be size of many details that we want to preserve as modelers. 

Team build. Not a bad idea. Not sure I want any more 4mm UK stock though, too much already and it needs thinning. I do have a couple of 80-foot heavyweight passenger cars that need building. Same principles - underframe and battery box/brake details, interior, body shell, details. Not a starter kit though.  Plus some Intermountain and P2K 40' freight car kits, but again they are not starters, and the body shell comes as a complete molding (as do nearly all NA freight cars). None of any great interest to most on this site.

As this is about the principle, I'd go cheap and cheerful (Ratio banana van or Dapol meat van), and not necessarily highly detailed (or prototypical). Or if there is enough interest, straight into the Bogie B and do a master class (and in sync).

Nigel

I did consider doing a Beetle myself, but I decided it was really a passenger train vehicle rather than goods (it and the CCT/PMV types, plus milk tankers are all classified as NPCCS - Non-Passenger Carrying Coaching Stock, together with all the bogie vans like the bogie B, Luggage and parcels vans, GUVs and BGs).

Still you have done a nice job on that one in your photo, John.

:thumbs

Hi John.   I haven't done "Painting and Weatheing" before, as for soldering, I have good days and bad days. I am happy with soldering droppers, unless they are in a tight spot. The trouble with today's model railways is, as I have said before Post and Packing, not like popping down the road to a local shop. A soldering job that I had forgotten all about, is an etched brass lattice signal post, well the complete signal. Now that could be full of tight spots?  all the best. Kevin

Hi Jeff.   Now that is a good idea, "Simple" as long as it is? I can handle that. And all the good railway companies that as you know formed the best of the "Big Four". When I get a chance I will buy one or more of these kits.     all the best. Kevin

Well Nigel, I guess there's no right or wrong way to do things as long the result is satisfactory for you.  I'm always looking for things that can be adapted to modelling from the hardware store (like primer) since modelling stuff is always more expensive.

I wasn't suggesting that the team build all do the same kit although that would be cool.

Jeff, you're right, the Beetle is for prize cattle and would have travelled in a passenger train.  I got it because I wanted a livestock train having bought the very lovely Hornby horsebox and completed 3 PD ex LNER cattle wagons.  A train which includes these would travel at passenger speed.  Livestock wagons would normally be vacuum braked so as to be able to travel at the front of the train where the ride is better.

Kevin, soldering wiring and soldering brass kits is not quite the same thing.  You want uncored solder for brass, typically with a melting point of 145C or 185C.  The higher the melt temp. the stronger the joint.  I've found over the years that there is a bit more flexibility with the flux.  I've got a MSE signal kit waiting for me to have ago at.

In the meantime, I got my kits out today and made a start on one, just to make sure I still have "it".  Best get a move on, once I get a bug I want to bash on.  I'll put some pics in my workbench thread.

John

Hi Nigel.  Plastic cement, is that the one that was used to make "Airfix"
Model Planes years ago? and you ended up peeling it off your fingers?
I have used, as I said, with mixed results plastic weld. But I wasn't sure how to clean the brushes. But I will have a look at the offerings of Cambrian and Parkside Dundas. I have heard back from "Ratio" about alternative bogies for the Bogie B Van ( via Peco ) " Unfortunately we do not produce the ready assembled bogies you require" and it goes on?
"This said, I am reliably informed Hornby has made something similar in the past and it may be worth contacting them directly to ascertain whether these are still available". I think that is a strange answer, but it was straight from the horses mouth.  Kevin
PS.  Would it be possible to fit Kadee couplings to a wagon, during the building of the kit? Or would that involve guesswork , and mean fitting the Kadee once the wagon is built.

I have a bottle of liquid cement (Proweld) that came with a brush.  Testors has a brush too.  The original cement is long gone, I just add fresh stuff from whatever source I have.  Brushes stay in the cement.

Check out my workbench thread, I am doing some Slaters kits.  Don't worry, I'll save some for later.

I'll be installing Kadees on these wagons. 

John

Hi Kevin,

Solvent (such as MEK or acetone) welds the pieces together. Plastic cement contains styrene monomer as well as a solvent. These days it's thin (compared to the stuff that came out of tubes supplied with the kit) and is best put on with a brush. The Testors cement I use comes with a brush on the cap, way too big for delicate work. A regular sable brush works fine.

The Testors still uses some MEK in the ingredients, that may have to change given the safety issues with this solvent and the current shortages (that's why it's expensive). It also evaporates very quickly, if you put it on the surface then join them together you have to be fast. That's why we paint into the joint, not onto the joint. Humbrol and the like need to be put on the joint, too much and it gets over the outside surface. Just like the old days.

The only way to get to grips with using these products is to do some work with them. Other products that have moved on from Humbrol and the like are Tamiya Fine Tip Liquid Cement and Tenax 7R. That said, Hubrol and similar has it's place in gluing one sheet flat to another, as the working time is a lot longer. Unfortunately so is the outgassing, which for big pieces can be months.

John and I will continue to discuss the merits of grey car primer versus model primer for many years. Again, you have to try them out to determine what works for you. Truth be known we should be using plastic primer (transparent) on plastic models, not bare metal primer. That said, acrylic paints seem to go on clean grease-free styrene without any problems anyway. I suspect we should be using primer only when working with bare metal, changing color from light to dark (or vice versa), or painting on a surface that is incompatible with the new paint (old cellulose-based paints for example) as they are all meant to slightly etch into the surface and provide a barrier. I can make no comment on solvent-based paints as I don't use them.

Nigel

No way I'm going to get into it with you about the way solvents work Nigel.

You're right about what primer to use or even if it should be used at all.  I have two kinds of primer, both bought at Canadian Tire (our version of Halfords).  One type says on the tin that it is suitable for plastic.  The other is for metal.  I think priming gives a pleasing surface texture and uniform colour and will continue to use it :cool wink. 

I keep saying that it is up to the individual to find what he/she likes best, so we're agreed there.

John

I agree that it is what works for the individual modeller that counts, it's not just a case of right or wrong. I always remember seeing this in print, somewhere in the dim, distant past: "What one modeller swears by, another will swear at." How true that is!

Personally, I use the car primer on many jobs. It works particularly well on resin train or bus kits where the resin can have many subtle lumps, dips and pits, with the primer hiding a multitude of sins, scrapes and file marks. I use it on white metal and brass kits too, and sometimes on plastic items, but rarely on repaints where the original paint job is of a decent condition; a quick rub back and clean is all that is generally required then.

John and Nigel are both right: if in doubt, try it out for yourself. If there is a risk to the model, try it on something else that does not matter to you, or on a part of the model that will be hidden.

To some degree, we all have to learn for ourselves the hard way, in spite of, or even because of, advice received from others.

I once repaired a faulty casting on a K's Q1 tender;  a corner part of the top casting was missing, so I repaired it by using solder to build up small layers at a time until the approximate shape was restored, followed by filing it smooth. I used normal melting point solder! No one told me that this would not work and that I should use low melting point solder, so I did it … successfully!

Well done with the solder repair Jeff.  I've soldered whitemetal successfully but still a bit tentative.  It's actually a common repair method and I've seen both Iain Rice and Tony Wright use it.

John

Hi John ,Jeff, and Nigel.   Between you ? you have jogged my memory.
40 odd years ago , I did actually buy myself a "Blueprint" of a Southern
EMU , it might have been a "2BIL"?, I also had the white metal castings for the "Cab Ends"(the under carriage details were on the blueprint but what might have been? Didn't get done) apart from that not much else? But I did my best to cut out the windows on white plastic ,rather crude by today's expected standards. Of course over time things get put aside and go amongst the missing?    all the best. Kevin

We get better with time Kevin.  In the beginning my ignorance was laughable and some of the stuff I did doesn't bear thinking about.  CA glue works well on whitemetal, especially small parts.  For structural assemblies, I think solder is best.

John

Belatedly, I have now dug out my Ratio Bogie B. I originally painted it in weathered Southern olive green (the weathering still shows on the roof, ends, underframe and windows), but later on I repainted just the sides in Malachite green. It is awaiting transfers then weathering again. I fitted metal wheels long ago, although it is still a tad light in weight, but it runs well. It was stored in a safe place because of its fragility, especially when compared to RTR stock.

Hi Jeff.  Thank you for your reply. Fragility, that is a good word, but why is it so delicate?? Words like Fragility, just give me more reasons to put off making my first "Rolling Stock Kit". Is it the material, the glue or what??
I am still considering my options on wagons, Cambrian or Parkside Dundas?? Maybe a piece of plywood glued inside during construction might work and add the weight all in one
all the best  Kevin

The fragility is mainly because of the fineness of the plastic mouldings, but also due to some of the extra detailing you can do if you follow all of the kit instructions; things like the very fine rods suspending the batteries or the wipers on the guard's periscopes.

Even looking at my own photo, above, I have spotted the tie bar on the bogie nearest the camera has a break in it.

The couplings are from the kit and are also quite thin and delicate. I will replace them at some point with some newer ones from Bachmann or Hornby.

The lightness is simply because I didn't add enough weight when I built it. There is weight there, but I should have added more!

Hi guys, whenever I build a kit, I look at the finer plastic parts and may opt to replace those with brass.  There are many frets available from Mainly Trains and Eileen's Emporium that are extremely useful.

Plastic stepboards always break, but can be made from scrap brass strip and wire.

I mentioned before I think, that Ratio bogies (at least the ones I've had to deal with) are terribly fragile.  There are replacement bogies available from MJT (Dart), Brassmasters and Bill Bedford (Eileen's Emporium).  When made up, you can glue cosmetic sides.

John

Hi John.  Thank you for the info. This "Cackhanded Novice" will investigate the possibilities? because I really am Cackhanded .
Even the goods that you have suggested might not be any good in my hands? I will update you, all the best. Kevin

The best fitting and relatively simple kit's I've made re by Coopercraft and Slaters. The latter were so well made that very little trimming is necessary. The only thing is the newest one I built was about 10 years old so I don't know if the moulds are getting tired yet.

As to primer, I tend not to bother on all plastic kits. I tend to use Humbrol acrylic aerosols trying to get the best match from a military paint - Tank Grey for old GWR wagons and "Coke" or "anthracite" from a company called Montana (which I discovered in an artists shop for when I'm trying to match Hornby GWR toads. For Black I use Chaos black from a wargaming company whoes name I forget.

Sadly his eclectic mix has arisen due to the demise of my local model shop and the need to look further afield and rely on toy shops.

For glue I use either Slater's Mek-Pak or some Methyl-ethyl-ketone I bough from a chemical supplier on ebay (having previously bought a small bottle of the stuff from a stand at a model exhibition).

Hi Stephen.  Thank you for your reply, all info received is greatfully accepted. I will check out the "Slaters" on Google , and see what is current,    all the best. Kevin