Latest examples just delivered to Hattons

Thanks for posting the photos Nick……..
You have done a much better job than I on the Dapol/Airfix version. The comparison photos were interesting…….it looks as though the new version is fractionally taller than the Dapol?

You are not the first person to mention the gearing…..I guess I will have to do a bit more tweaking than usual with its decoder settings…….one of the advantages of DCC

What is your reaction to the recessed numberplate? I am guessing that with the thre foot rule it's barely noticeable……but the problem is that you know it's an issue….just like the missing ash pan so it nags away like tooth ache

Hopefully my delight at the other features of the loco will offset these minor pains.

Looking forward to hearing how she performs at MM's next outing.

Best wishes

John

Hi John
Yes it is ever so slightly taller, and the dome is also slightly larger. I can't be sure which is correct but an educated guess would have to be that Hattons are more likely to have it right. The other very noticeable improvement is that daylight can be seen under the boiler.

The number plates look good but are only slightly raised . They look much better on the model than they do in the photos. I will need to change the number of mine at some point to a loco shredded around Gloucester as 4825 was a London (Southall) loco. I'm waiting to see if anyone documents their efforts removing and changing the existing number plates.  

I'm sure that the High Level chassis kit includes a representation of the ashpan so in due course I will see if something can be fabricate to give an adequate representation. 

 :cheers

I will be changing the number on one of the two I have ordered…….but that will be a while yet…..no loco and I haven't ordered the new plate yet.
Miss Prism on RMWeb suggested the ashpan could be replicated with plasticard….I am sure there will be a few other ideas coming up

Cheers

John

The DJModels 14xx looks to have the height of the chimney/dome spot on according to the diagrams. I think that it was a cast chimney - no copper capuchon.

One thing I've noticed is the lack of a whistle shield. Many (if not all) GWR 14xx's had this before BR days (late 1930's from memory). One of those details where it probably pays to check the numbers (especially if changing). Did Hattons/DJmodels put the sliding shield in the cab sides?

Details, details  - it's a nice looking model.



Nigel

[user=1632]BCDR[/user] wrote:

The DJModels 14xx looks to have the height of the chimney/dome spot on according to the diagrams. I think that it was a cast chimney - no copper capuchon.

One thing I've noticed is the lack of a whistle shield. Many (if not all) GWR 14xx's had this before BR days (late 1930's from memory). One of those details where it probably pays to check the numbers (especially if changing). Did Hattons/DJmodels put the sliding shield in the cab sides?

Details, details  - it's a nice looking model.



Nigel

Nigel, the details depend on which version you buy. You can choose between 48xx, 58xx, 14xx in various forms (e.g. variants with top feed and without) with details to suit the particular livery / era. Liveries are available from 'Great Western', thro Shirtbutton, GWR, BR black liveries and lined green, also weathered and non weathered. The 58xx's do not have the auto gear as you would expect.

Some of the moulded detail will not however suit all periods but that is small price to pay. A look on Hatton's website will show all the variants available 

Hi Nick,

I already had a good look at the models available. All I'm saying is if you care about details, research the numbers you want along with the livery (Great Western, GWR Roundel and GWR) and whistle shields. Some of the time frames are very restrictive. For example, renumbering to 4860 and above means it should have whistle shields (and only GWR Roundel - 1934, or GWR - 1942, not Great Western), and would be 1936 (date of manufacture) to 1946 (at the latest), when the 48xx's were renumbered to 14xx. All the photo's I have of 48xxs post WW2 up to BR days have shields. DITD.

The one thing I really don't like about this model is that fixed and highly visible geared rear axle, which should be a swinging pony. I have a feeling it will look like an 0-6-0, not an 0-4-2, going around the corners. Plus the lack of ash-pan details, which may be difficult to add in OO gauge. The Hornby model, for all it's faults, got this right.

Nigel

Hi Nigel

I am aware of the numbering, details and era timescales difficulties. The model already has details which were not present as built and in the livery I wanted "Great Western" pre 1934. I can live with it though.

I'm afraid you are incorrect in saying that the rear wheels should be a swinging pony truck. I think what you are mistaking for a 'geared' rear axle is in fact leaf springs. The rear wheels are set in the loco frames as was the earlier 517 class and the 2-4-0 Metro Tanks. The model is totally correct against drawings in this respect (and just about everywhere else as far as I can make out). The Airfix / Dapol / Hornby is exactly the same.

The Airfix / Dapol / Hornby model does have a block of metal chassis which gives the illusion of an ashpan but is not correct. It does however look better in this respect. I don't think it will be that difficult to fabricate something to do the same.

All in all it is a significant improvement to the older model and runs so much better.

Nick

Hi Nick,

Quite right, I was just thinking over breakfast "you got that backwards" re the rear axle. Hornby (and previous iterations) used a pony to get it round the toy-train curves. The GWR of course used an axle with outside bearings and a fair amount of lateral movement in the axle to get it around the curves.

As I said, it's a nice model with all the details in the right places, but that geared axle (and the axle is highly visible on the prototype) is highly visible. Given what this locomotive will be pulling and pushing, 4-wheel drive should have been sufficient.

Nigel

Nigel

Actually the Airfix / Dapol / Hornby version didn't have a swinging rear axle either. I don't know of any RTR versions than these. There were kits produced by K's and possibly others suppliers but I have no experience of them so can't say if they had swinging rear ponies.

I'm not sure what you are driving at (no pun intended) regarding what you believe is a geared axle. It is a four coupled loco and those four driving wheels are the only ones powered :???:

Nick

Hi Nick,

Bill sent me the link to the spare parts earlier on in the thread. Unless they went and drastically changed the design, this is a split chassis affair with what looks all axles being driven from the gear set-up (part #109, 105, 106, 108).  What's interesting is that all 3 wheels (2 drivers, 1 carrier) have separate part numbers. Difficult to tell from the diagram, but that looks like 3 plastic gear-axle carriers and stub axles on the wheels. Which would make sense as I can see no wipers or pick ups (unless part 104 are plungers). Or provision for springs.The specification says electrical pickup all wheels. So, if I'm right this is an 0-6-0 (or an 0-4-2-0).

It's an ingenious design that ensures all the weight is on all the driving wheels (although most of it is seems to be over the 2 coupled wheels, is there a weight in the bunker/cab back sheet?), hence the different gears for the 3rd axle which has smaller wheels, and electrical pick-up from all wheels. Past experience from Bachmann et al. shows that 0-6-0 split chassis designs, because of the requirement to keep the gear train fully engaged with rigid axles, suffer from issues of rail contact unless the track is level. This design works well in N-scale and HO/OO scale with bogie drives, but not so well in HO/OO with coupled driving wheels. All 3 axles in the new model appear to be rigid but probably with some lateral movement as the specification says it goes around radius 2 track (12" radius)..

You're right about the 3rd axle, the K's model has it as a pony to get around toy-train curves. Could have sworn that the Hornby model had it as as well. Must get it out of storage and have an investigate.OK, found it, no pony, but ahh (Bisto moment), lots of lateral and vertical movement (central pivot) to allow for uneven track (and lots of lateral movement on the middle axle as well). Essentially a floating axle (or two).

It's a great looking model with the right detail in the right places (and the right time-frame), I was just surprised that it has a rigid split chassis design with such a fine-scale body and detailing. My Hornby has Ultrascale wheels on, no traction tires, and it pulls 2 auto-coaches or a B-set and a Collett coach (or 10 wagons/vans weighted to NMRA guidelines) without any traction problems.

Nigel

Sadly, having both coupled axles geared makes the coupling rods  useless as they are then cosmetic.  I have yet to see one of these new models running with the coupling rods parallel to the footplate or track, mine included. The slop in the crankpins is too great and if there is also slop in the gearing it will just emphasise the visual disappointment.
it reminds me of those Minitrix N gauge locos of the 70`s
Sadly, sadly I shall be passing this one on…………………………………………………………………………

John

It sounds as if this model isn't meeting everyone's expectations from discussion here and other places and I've been patiently waiting for mine to arrive. Well, our post lady has just delivered my 48xx from Hattons and a couple of Lenz decoders from Germany. Unfortunately, after fixing the sit on mower over the weekend, my back has thrown a giant strop and despite some gentle mobilisation exercises this morning, I'm forced into R&R, so will have to wait to test the loco.

The detail however is superb and if it runs satisfactorily, I'll chip it, add ash pan detail and lightly weather the running gear to overcome the stark silver of the coupling rods. Following much debate on RMweb about the number plates, mine look and feel pretty flush, so no issues here.
 
More later,

Bill

[user=1780]Twobolt[/user] wrote:

Sadly, having both coupled axles geared makes the coupling rods  useless as they are then cosmetic.  I have yet to see one of these new models running with the coupling rods parallel to the footplate or track, mine included. The slop in the crankpins is too great and if there is also slop in the gearing it will just emphasise the visual disappointment.
it reminds me of those Minitrix N gauge locos of the 70`s
Sadly, sadly I shall be passing this one on…………………………………………………………………………

John

Hi John,

That lack of parallelism could be as simple as the wheels not being exactly quartered on the gear shafts. If the wheels are on stub axles (I have no idea not having succumbed to temptation when first advertised, but they should be because of the split chassis design), then a slight turn of the wheel/stub axle would help correct it. The parts diagram shows that the wheels can be removed, so it should be a friction fit. Some bushes on the wheel pins might help. As you say, the rods are just along for the ride with all-geared wheels. But then again, this is supposed to be a RTR model. Bachmann on its split chassis 0-6-0's over here gets it right.

Sloppy gears will make for noisy running, even if they are plastic/delrin.

Lots of interesting comments on this subject elsewhere. I get the impression that a) they are being returned for repairs, and b) a fair few will be hitting the auction sites soon. I see Hornby are introducing a railroad model for half the price of the Hattons models. Looks like the original tooling (with ash pan but no 'ole under t'boiler). At $60 I might go for another one, given the cost of an EM wheel set.

Nigel

[user=1814]Longchap[/user] wrote:

It sounds as if this model isn't meeting everyone's expectations from discussion here and other places and I've been patiently waiting for mine to arrive. Well, our post lady has just delivered my 48xx from Hattons and a couple of Lenz decoders from Germany. Unfortunately, after fixing the sit on mower over the weekend, my back has thrown a giant strop and despite some gentle mobilisation exercises this morning, I'm forced into R&R, so will have to wait to test the loco.

The detail however is superb and if it runs satisfactorily, I'll chip it, add ash pan detail and lightly weather the running gear to overcome the stark silver of the coupling rods. Following much debate on RMweb about the number plates, mine look and feel pretty flush, so no issues here.
 
More later,

Bill

Hi Bill

Sorry to hear about your back……I had the same problem last week….now happily recovered.

I will be interested to hear how your 48xx testing progresses. I am particularly interested in the CV settings. I understand that because it has a coreless motor one has to adjust the engine CV. Apparently Lenz offer 4 or 5 engine options with the default cv setting being suitable for the standard 3/5 pole engine. So its not something I have done before…….I normally just fiddle with 2 5 and 6. (RR&Co covers momentum and acelleration rates so I set 3 and 4 very low)

Get well soon

John 

Hi John and thanks and also sorry that you had a similar experience last week.

I'll pop it on my test oval this week to run it in and then with large lens in hand, look to put the Lenz mini (and it easily justifies its name) into the harness, then look at CV settings.

I'm not expecting a miracle with mobility for a few days, but will crack on as soon as I can get away with it, as the bride is watching!

With so many locos now needing running in, I'm thinking a rolling road may be a god idea.

Bill

 

  

Riding on the back of what has been said about the quality of Hattons 14xx on here I've now ordered one and will eventually build a small 4mm GWR Branch line to compliment it.
I've also ordered a Hornby auto coach - secondhand job also from Hattons -  and would like to know if it won't look out of place quality wise hanging off the back of the 14xx. Also, who else makes a RTR 4mm auto coach ?

Thanks guys.

Allan

[user=1427]allan downes[/user] wrote:

Riding on the back of what has been said about the quality of Hattons 14xx on here I've now ordered one and will eventually build a small 4mm GWR Branch line to compliment it.
I've also ordered a Hornby auto coach - secondhand job also from Hattons -  and would like to know if it won't look out of place quality wise hanging off the back of the 14xx. Also, who else makes a RTR 4mm auto coach ?

Thanks guys.

Allan

Hi Allan

Some people do seem to have had issues with the running qualities of the Hattons 14/48/58xx. I personally know someone who has sent two back and now has a refund but mine runs superbly and I'm very pleased with it.

Regarding the auto coach, the Hornby version is the ex Airfix model and consequently dates back to the 1980's. It was a good model in it's day and still the only GWR era coach available RTR. It is not strictly accurate being a cross breed of a diagram A28 & A30 and lacks a lot of detail compared to the newer offering from Bachmann. The Bachmann auto trailer is superb and compliments the Hatton loco very well, but it is a BR era coach only.

The Hornby model can be brought up to a much higher standard with a detailing kit available from Dart Castings @ £25 if memory serves me right.  I showed some photos of mine using this kit on my layout thread, see the link below. it was a very satisfying project to do.

Much Murkle   post 445 on the page

If you are buying a BR liveried version of the 14xx then I would recommend getting the Bachmann auto trailer.

Well, this release makes me happy since from the sound of it it's likely to send plenty of older 14xx models onto evilBay where I might be able to afford one next time I have cash

Join the line! My Hornby pulls just fine with no traction tires and DCC, and I can live without the space under the boiler.

Nigel

Just taken delivery of 4825 just as good as the 58