D I Y or Pay an expert to fit Decoder

Hi Kevin,

Paul has a good point. If you are concerned about internal modifications (wave goodbye to the warranty) go with the smallest decoder that will fit, with a speaker to match. I standardized on ESU a long time ago, and not being concerned about resale value or warranty (UK service and I'm in Canada? Cheaper to buy a new one rather than pay the postage) I butcher away as required to get the decoder to fit.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.  It's not the resale value that concerns me, when I "m dead someone else can worry about that. It is the " Look and the Originalality, and the Paintwork, Transfers, everything that you expect including the
Robustness" , and to be able to run as it left the factory , even after it has been butchered?? But whether it is me or whoever, now if some kind modeller could "run through the order of work/bits that have to go etc "
I would be much obliged.  all the best Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Based on probably 150+ DCC add-ins to DC and early "DCC ready" models (and learning along the way, I've only had 2 that proved to be too expensive to modify, and one that I'm still thinking about, I'll post on that beast next year), my two cents (pence) on this is as follows:

Old DC models. Unless the same model is available as a DCC ready one, they can present a challenge. Most have large open frame motors, and the chassis is often live. This means the motor has to be isolated or changed for one that is insulated. Space for a decoder is not normally an issue. It needs a decoder that can handle the start current draw. Even after installing a decoder all may not be well, as they are old models and often have other issues.

Some models that I've converted that are a pain in the derriere are:

Hornby Dean Goods, where there is just enough room in the boiler for a small decoder but getting a speaker there requires some removal of the boiler weight, plus the tender drive (ringfield motor) has to be wired. The most difficult part of that is actually getting the tender body off (the buffers have to be removed).

Bachmann early 0-6-0 Pannier, split frame chassis, with just enough room in the cab for a decoder. The frames need to be drilled and tapped, and some metal removed from the top of the chassis in the cab to get a decoder and speaker in. The motor needs isolating from the chassis halves, not difficult. A thin decoder will fit inside the pannier tank with a bit of chassis removal. Cut the legs off driver Fred and fireman Bert, stick them in the cab and the speaker in the cab is hidden.

Early Bachmann Warship. There is just enough space for the decoder and speaker, but some chassis removal is required, plus a home-made speaker enclosure.

Bachmann Class 20. One I wish I'd never started. DCC ready, not really room for anything but a thin decoder. The speaker has a holder made of double sided 3M foam, and wring some lights has meant taking the body apart to get at the inside of the cab. 

DCC Ready, early models. Really meant for DCC no sound, and most will need a small decoder. With a bit on ingenuity space can be found for a speaker. You'll find these models in the DC to DCC transition period.

Bachmann 56xx, DCC ready (:roll:). One of the "DCC ready, not DCC friendly" class. Wiring is not NMRA compliant, the circuit board is on the MAZAC frame with the associated RF suppression bits and prices, there is no room for a decoder, let alone a speaker. Get rid of the board and electronics, hard wire, and put the decoder in the pannier tank or the cab, and the speaker in the cab/bunker.

Bachmann Collett Goods. Not really enough room in the boiler for anything, put the decoder and speaker in the tender.

Proto 2000 diesels, DC. The circuit board can be modified for DCC, there is space for a decoder, but it's easier to remove the board and wiring and hard wire the decoder. Some metal needs to come off the chassis for a speaker. These models come in the box with the chassis and body as separate componets, you have to put them together anyway.

Less easy models: Lima GWR diesel railcar. Wiring is OK for DC, needs additional pick-ups for DCC operation. Plenty of room for the decoder in the luggage compartment, and the speaker goes where the weight is (cut in half, all that weight is not needed).

Easy models. Mainline Warship - room for a symphony orchestra in the  body, although the gears will need replacing and some weight added. I find split frame chassis models, especially diesels, to be some of the easiest conversions, they just need the motor isolating and the two halves tapped. There is normally plenty of "meat" in the chassis to allow a lot of metal removal.

When they are put back together they do look the same as before. All the modifications are inside, metal and plastic removal and rewiring. It's not difficult. The worst that happens is that I like to replace the plastic coal in bunkers and tenders with the real stuff, along with holes to let the sound out. This often means taking the plastic coal out, and replacing with a thin sheet of styene or metal mesh with the coal glued on top. Holes are then drilled between the coal lumps. Impossible to see unless you use a magnifying glass. Others prefer to drill holes in the bottom of the tender chassis or bunker. Most new DCC ready tender models already have a depression for a speaker along with the holes.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply, very comprehensive write up, but are you familiar with the 57xx from Bachmann? My version is D C C ready so that should be a piece of cake? apart from a modifying the bodywork with out compromising their finish?
all the best Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Sorry, thought the question was about butchery and will they run afterwards. Of course they do if it's done correctly.

Yes, I've done a Bachmann 57xx. It has a mini Lenz Silver, no sound. Didn't mention it because there is nothing to it - take the body off, put it back on. Plugged in to the 8 socket board, no modifications. When I get around to it the Bachmann internal wiring set-up will go, some metal removal with the "big file" (top and front), no need for a mill, and I'll hard wire a new 8 pin socket and some running lamps front and back (white/red). That needs a bit of space for the resistors. The plan was for an ESU mini decoder in the boiler with a small speaker at the front under the chimney for the high frequency speaker (and probably a new brass chimney with a decent sized hole, plus some holes around the steam chest area underneath to let the sound out), bass-reflex speaker in the cab. If I can find the room I'll put them the other way around. I may even try one of Paul Chetter's sound file set-ups on a Zimo decoder to see what it's like in comparison with the ESU Howes files as I've heard his work is good. Depends on whether Digitrains takes VAT off for export.

Nigel

[user=1632]BCDR[/user] wrote:

……………………………………………………..Depends on whether Digitrains takes VAT off for export.

Nigel

They do - or at least, they did last time I had one shipped outside the EU.

Hi Nigel.  If I am the one to do the work?? It could well be butchery with a capital B? but it is just likely to be me that I am worried about,if I get near a sharp blade (being on Warfarin) I worry equally, about cutting myself. and having Claret all over the place.  all the best Kevin

Hi Kevin,

If in doubt get a professional to install it. Nothing quite as messy as a bleeder, especially an arteriole, plus anticoagulant. You could get some butchers gloves if ever you fancy having a go. Most installations only get as complicated as cutting a few wires and soldering the speaker up, plus drilling a few holes for the wires. You could be laying track or building an embankment instead of installing the decoder and speaker.

Nigel

Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply, Butchers Gloves? might save the blood?  but increase the chances of messing up the loco. A Professional job sounds good, I will have to consider my options. Kevin

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

[user=1632]BCDR[/user] wrote:

……………………………………………………..Depends on whether Digitrains takes VAT off for export.

Nigel

They do - or at least, they did last time I had one shipped outside the EU.

I shall inquire.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.  I went along with the Professional fitting the Sound to my 57xx L94, and as usual Paul has excelled himself. But bearing in mind my experience of "Too Many Cooks Spoiling the Broth" that should read too many "Sound Locos " ie spoil a small layout in a domestic situation.
L97 will remain quiet, but with Two Thumpers from Kernow, along with the other loco 08 Shunter that Paul did for me, I think that enough is enough? for now.   all the best Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Go on, full volume, 2:00 am. Let those Zimo's rip. Send all complaints to Paul. Double dare you!

Mind you, if it's like the condo rules here, curfew from 11:00 p.m. to 08:00 a.m. Home owners associations have rules and regulations that sometimes raise eyebrows and ire.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.  No not me, as already mentioned, too many "Sound Locos " ain't no good for no one( Now there's a fine bit of English for you) and that is just the sort of response that I would get. My neighbours and a lot of    other "incomers" to Peckham complain that the "Freight Trains working through the night" disturbing their "All Night Parties ". Now that is a shame.   all the best Kevin

You can never have too many sound locos Kevin - just don't run them all at once ……….:thumbs

Having been bitten by the sound bug, non-sound locos certainly lack something.  Sound brings them to life - I only wish I could afford to chip all mine.  Whenever I change to a "silent loco", it looses lots of the reality - IMHO. ;-)

Hi Petermac. Thank you for your reply, but with the 08 Diesel Shunter doing its thing in the yard, and when I get a full circuit?? I intend to have the Thumpers strutting their stuff around the layout, with their obviously distinctive throb of the Diesel Electric Motors. And I have an idea for a Coastal Layout based loosely on Hastings, and back in London,with the 57xx's in a very loose interpretation of "Lillie Bridge Depot", one with sound is quite enough for me. all the best Kevin

Hi Nigel.  An update?  Following Ricks thread I am inspired to fit sound in my.DJM 02 , Kernow supplied the Loco, and a Decoder which I fitted, but, at the time I didn’t think about sound, now Rick has pointed out how easy it is done.I have a few questions, is it a special sugar cube speaker likewise a special Decoder and how would I get the wires to connect the speaker to the Decoder???    Best wishes Kevin 

hi Kevin,
I can confirm that Zimo decoders are the very best to use for motor control and for sound files in both 4mm and 7mm locos.

This is my  7mm Pannier with a  4mm 00/ho Zimo decoder and Pannier sound file both from Digitrains.




John

Hi John.  Thank you for your reply. Very impressive sound, off hand I cannot remember which Decoder Kernow supplied , because it is upstairs and I cannot manage the stairs by myself, but I will investigate, but I am certain that it would be a good one. You have an obvious advantage with “ O gauge stock “ as far as fitting anything is concerned.But do all Decoders work or do I need special Decoders for sound? and do they require hard wiring.

Sound decoders are not the same as ordinary decoders Kevin.

You'll know from the bill if it was a sound decoder - they cost around £100 whereas an ordinary good DCC decoder costs around £25 to £ 30 - ish …………………..

You can't add sound to a standard decoder - you have to buy a sound decoder, usually supplied with the sound files already loaded.  You just specify the loco and they load the file for you.

Hi Petermac.  Thank you for your reply. After I sent my message it dawned upon me. What a silly billy I am. Of course I have had Locos fitted with sound, my latest being a Heljan 33 , a Diesel isn’t everyone’s favourite Loco but they were/ are a favourite on the Southern. And traveled far from the Southern too.I haven’t heard much about your project lately, are you too busy with the summer sun?   Best wishes Kevin