Freelance 00 layout

Well its taken 3 months to finally make sufficient space in the train room that I am now able to get to the layout and it has been cleared of all the junk and train stuff and I can now run trains again.  A milestone achieved albeit taking a lot longer than anticipated.

After cleaning the track and relearning how to use the controls I decided that I needed to get more orderly in my approach to the layout and the computer programming.  For those of you that have joined the Club in the past two years I run the layout using DCC and computer control. I run either fully automated or by using the computer screens a switchboard.

As my natural bias is to things electrical I decided that the first task I would tackle was the detection of wagons that sit in sidings, or worst case, detach from a moving train.
Reading my NCE manual it said that this is easily achieved by placing a 4.7K ohm resistor across the axle and I found a video that showed how this could be achieved using surface mounted resistors and electrical paint .  Simple? well yes except even when I used up to an 80k resistor across the track my block detectors failed to detect them.  So project on hold while I seek input from the NCE users forum. 

Undeterred, I thought I would address another issue which is loco profiling. This is necessary so that all trains under computer control can run at the same scale speed for a designated speed - i.e if the computer says the train is running at 30mph then thel loco that being controlled by the computer will be moving at the 30mph scale speed - very important when running consists!
To save space I decided that I could do this on a rolling road rather than a purpose built length of track. However, having taken the plunge and ordered a speed cat from Germany after seeing it perform on a video from McKinley Railway I have now discovered that the new version of the railway computer software (RR&Co) handles it differently so its a wait and see. :shock:

Dave

Hi Dave
Not sure if you want this here or should I ask Max to move it to the RR&co area?

Occupancy detection……..I assume you are using BD20s hence the NCE Forum? 

                                         A very dumb question ……you have checked in more than one block? The blocks you have used do detect stationary locos? 

Will a bulb work across the tracks?

Silver paint only works as a conductor when the carrying medium has completely evapourated……Mine often fail when first tested but after leaving them a few hours they work fine.

I will write later about V9

Best wishes

John

I wish you best of luck on sorting the DCC issues out.

As for a concern you brought up earlier in the thread, about the more recently printed stone being slightly different in color, I would say don't sweat it. If anything, a little variation like that is realistic (at least, to my knowledge).

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

Hi Dave
Not sure if you want this here or should I ask Max to move it to the RR&co area?

Occupancy detection……..I assume you are using BD20s hence the NCE Forum? 

                                         A very dumb question ……you have checked in more than one block? The blocks you have used do detect stationary locos? 

Will a bulb work across the tracks?

Silver paint only works as a conductor when the carrying medium has completely evapourated……Mine often fail when first tested but after leaving them a few hours they work fine.

I will write later about V9

Best wishes

John

Thanks John,
No such thing as a dumb question - the problem is across all the blocks on the layout - carriages with lighting will register with the DB20 but not wagons with a single LED tail light.
I have used conductive paint as recommended by Charlies in the first video rather than silver paint which I was not able to source . My testing however reverted to testing resistors across the track.
Dave

[user=1916]ZeldaTheSwordsman[/user] wrote:

I wish you best of luck on sorting the DCC issues out.

As for a concern you brought up earlier in the thread, about the more recently printed stone being slightly different in color, I would say don't sweat it. If anything, a little variation like that is realistic (at least, to my knowledge).

Hi Brendan,
Many thanks for your comment. At the time it seemed a major issue but as you suggest in the 12inch to the foot world there are variations sometimes considerable ones and the scenery has been "weathered" over the past few years by albeit limited exposure to sunlight .

Dave

Hi Dave
Googled BD20s to try and find the manual…..no luck……..but did find a couple of threads about the set up of the NCE AIU(??).

As I understand it the BD20.  detects occupancy but it has to be hooked up with a device that notifies the user of occupancy……..are you using the NCE AIU?  Apparently you have to have loops of wire round the AIU for it to work properly withlow current draw occupancy

I apologise if you know this already………but it did make me wonder if the issue is one of notification rather than detection?



Good luck


John

Hi Everyone.

There's information on the NCE BD20 here including Led hook up.
Hope its helpful.
 

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201254549-BD20-Block-Detector


Tony.

Hi John and Tony

Many thanks for you welcome posts on my problem.
My BD20's are connected to AIUs as you have described. Each AIU can handle 14 BD20s and I have  4 AIUs around the layout. Each BD20 has an LED on the AIU that will light up when current is detected. The layout and the equipment work as required except that in attempting to have wagons registering I have discovered that the recommended 10K resistor is not triggering the BD20.
 
My problem is that the LED for any of  the BD20s will come on if a loco or carriage with lighting, is sitting in the corresponding block, ( i.e. working as expected) but not when I place a resistor of 10k to 80k across the track  :???:
I am still waiting for the NCE forum to post my query - hopefully they will shed some light on the problem - I'm sure it will be something relatively simple
ps I have already ensured that my BD20s have two loops of the wire to ensure increased sensitivity

Best wishes

Dave

 

Speed cat and rolling road arrived
A parcel from Germany arrived today - and the picture below shows the contents out of the box.
The rolling road with a central rail  that holds the rollers in place and allows the system to accommodate third rails systems such as marklin.
Also instructions in German and English, attachments to the rolling road to connect to the computer, a CD disc and a small extension for the USB.
Without reading anything I can see that this system was designed to connect to a laptop computer and I will need an extension USB lead to enable me to connect the device to my desktop. :roll:



This is the contents of the small packet that contains Speedcat

Not much to it - the rollers that have a rubber ring to prevent slippage that will need to inserted onto the rolling road, the USB connection and a spare wheel with rubber ring and two spare rubber rings.

I will need to have a good think about where and how I am going to locate the rolling road as it does not appear to have anything that will secure it in place and I regret that with my clumsiness I can see that I could accidentally get something caught in the USB wires and end up with the rolling road and loco on the floor :shock:

Let the games begin - next stage getting the equipment up and running on the computer and then possibly the biggest challenge- working out how it works with RR&Co

Hi Dave

I'm late to the party as usual.   :oops:

How does that device fit into your plans?

Cheers

[user=269]MaxSouthOz[/user] wrote:

Hi Dave

I'm late to the party as usual.   :oops:

How does that device fit into your plans?

Cheers

Good question Max,

Currently I speed-profile locos on the layout but that involves curves and points which result in less than optimal profiling.
There were two options - a length of track at a lower level that was divided  into three blocks  which would take up room and the room doesn't lend itself to a long straight piece of track so I would need to have plenty of "buffer" at each end  or option two use a RR&Co compatible rolling road.
I have gone for the latter - but have yet to find out whether it will do the job !  The rolling road would sit near where I sit on a shelf just below the layout.

Dave

Interesting.  I was of the opinion that the loco was required to travel the length of a Block, entering new Blocks, etc.

Still; it's been a while since I played with TC.     

I'll be following with much interest.

[user=540]gdaysydney[/user] wrote:

Speed cat and rolling road arrived
A parcel from Germany arrived today - and the picture below shows the contents out of the box.
The rolling road with a central rail  that holds the rollers in place and allows the system to accommodate third rails systems such as marklin.
Also instructions in German and English, attachments to the rolling road to connect to the computer, a CD disc and a small extension for the USB.
Without reading anything I can see that this system was designed to connect to a laptop computer and I will need an extension USB lead to enable me to connect the device to my desktop. :roll:



This is the contents of the small packet that contains Speedcat

Not much to it - the rollers that have a rubber ring to prevent slippage that will need to inserted onto the rolling road, the USB connection and a spare wheel with rubber ring and two spare rubber rings.

I will need to have a good think about where and how I am going to locate the rolling road as it does not appear to have anything that will secure it in place and I regret that with my clumsiness I can see that I could accidentally get something caught in the USB wires and end up with the rolling road and loco on the floor :shock:

Let the games begin - next stage getting the equipment up and running on the computer and then possibly the biggest challenge- working out how it works with RR&Co

Hi Dave.


I have that rolling road myself.
When I bought it I also bought 
berkopfhaltesystem 'KURT' Spur Finescale / P4 / S
It has stands on which the rolling road sits.


I'll be very interested in how you get on with the velocity measuring system ?


Tony.

Hi Tony

 :off topic  sort of……….how do you rate the Speed Cat performance as a rolling road?

Regards

John 

Hi Dave

I am very interested to see how you get on with the Speed Cat interfacing directly with TC particularly if it retains accuracy and saves time

There is no question that profiling conventionally,  a long uninterrupted profile block results in more consistent loco performance……….the downside is that the increased length results in significantly increased time to complete the profile :sad:  I estimate it takes about 45 -60 minutes to profile one loco……….even with the required glass of wine and some decent jazz it is still a bit like watching paint dry.

There are some major enhancements in V9 including something called Limited Distance Moves which makes the Kadee Shuffle much more realistic (as seen on my video) . To take advantage of this and generally enhanced accuracy I am laboriously reprofiling all of my locos :roll: . ……. I am now an expert on Diana Krall tracks   



Not sure if you have seen this thread on the RR&Co forum?

www.freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29647

This was when V9 was first released which changed the way TC related to Speed Cat and required the Speed Cat manufacturer (Matt Zeller?) to modify his software……..I believe this has now been done.

There was also this……hence my post to Tony

Railroad & Co. Forum • Login

I am inclined to think the OP in this thread is confused….his profile states V8 yet he is trying to run the latest (V9) software

Best wishes

John

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

Hi Tony

:off topic  sort of……….how do you rate the Speed Cat performance as a rolling road?

Regards

John 

Hi John.
I don't have the speed cat.
It was the rolling road stands I was referring to.
The Speed Cat is a separate item to the rolling road.
Tony.

Sorry Tony that was careless of me…..I meant to ask what you  thought of the rolling road in itself
Cheers

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

Hi Dave

I am very interested to see how you get on with the Speed Cat interfacing directly with TC particularly if it retains accuracy and saves time

There is no question that profiling conventionally,  a long uninterrupted profile block results in more consistent loco performance……….the downside is that the increased length results in significantly increased time to complete the profile :sad:  I estimate it takes about 45 -60 minutes to profile one loco……….even with the required glass of wine and some decent jazz it is still a bit like watching paint dry.

There are some major enhancements in V9 including something called Limited Distance Moves which makes the Kadee Shuffle much more realistic (as seen on my video) . To take advantage of this and generally enhanced accuracy I am laboriously re profiling all of my locos :roll: . ……. I am now an expert on Diana Krall tracks   

Not sure if you have seen this thread on the RR&Co forum?

http://www.freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29647

This was when V9 was first released which changed the way TC related to Speed Cat and required the Speed Cat manufacturer (Matt Zeller?) to modify his software……..I believe this has now been done.

There was also this……hence my post to Tony

http://www.freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31182

I am inclined to think the OP in this thread is confused….his profile states V8 yet he is trying to run the latest (V9) software

Best wishes

John

H John, I haven't installed the Speedcat software on the train PC as yet - I will post the outcomes as soon as I have done so.
I had seen the posts on the RR&Co forum but took some comfort from the fact that the posts were 6 months ago and that there had been no further posts. My fall back position ( other than ditching Speedcat) would be to revert to V8 or worst case, right of my Euro134 investment and continue to use track on the layout with its curves and pointwork.
 As for the time saved it will remain to be seen. I also have a glass of red ( or two) but I play my music via itunes on the PC and use the shuffle function - with over 600 cds loaded I am never sure what will be playing next but its a great way to listen to those obscure tracks without suffering from artist overload  
.

Dave

Hi Dave.

I have that rolling road myself.
When I bought it I also bought 
http://marion-zeller.de/Fine-Scale-P4-S4-EM-0n3/Upside-down-System-KURT-finescale-P4-S4::60.html?MODsid=154hqt1h89ljkng0ndltotio13
It has stands on which the rolling road sits.


I'll be very interested in how you get on with the velocity measuring system ?


Tony.

Thanks Tony,
I saw the "upside down" cradle on You tube and decided that for the moment at least it would be a diversion from my main game. It does look appealing though - how useful have you found it ?

Dave

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

Sorry Tony that was careless of me…..I meant to ask what you  thought of the rolling road in itself
Cheers

Hi John.


No problem.
The rolling road is very well engineered & with it on the stands its easy to look under a loco as well so you get a good view of anything the might be happening under the loco or with the wheels on the other side of the loco.
I have the stands screwed to a length of wood so that I can move it where ever I want without any problem.


Tony.