I'm at my appointment with the diabetic nurse on Wednesday morning.

I have my eye screening on Monday the 3 rd of August and then a follow up appointment with my GP who specialises in diabetes on the Friday of the same week. Things are moving.
However, I am having to contemplate coming off the tablets as they are not agreeing with me. Not loose bowels as predicted but since Friday of last week I've been having mood swings and the feeling of depression has been growing more as the days have been going on.

I am struggling a bit. Not too bad but toiling to snap out of this crappy feeling. My family have started to notice as well so I think it's time to stop the tablets until I see someone.
I was actually meant to increase the dose today from one tablet twice a day to one in the morning and two at night. Then next week two and two but I think I'll give that a miss. I shouldn't be feeling like this.

Don't know if anyone else has experienced this but it would be good to know.

Cheers

Toto

Had similar problems when I started taking Statin's Tom, family noticed my mood swings and bad temper after a week! Doctors didn't want to change so I stopped taking them and will not take anymore!!

Cheers
Ron

Well, believe it or not but that's the next thing they are talking about. Statins for cholesterol. That's meant to be getting sorted out at the GP's appointment…….. Jesus.

I remember a similar feeling when I tried a tablet to stop smoking. Yeah …….. You did not want to smoke ……… But you didn't want to live either. First couple of days …… Great then felt suicidal. Came off them right away and was fine.
Don't worry, I'm not feeling that bad with the diabetes tablets but just really up and down and extremely fatigued. Can't be bothered with anything. I forced myself out to the shed on Saturday night for a couple of hours and was ok, but Sunday, after I had done some chores, just sat on the couch feeling extremely irritated and could not drag myself out at all.
There have sometimes been the occasion where I haven't felt like it but never this bad. A real struggle.

Anyway, I'm sure they'll get it sorted, just need to find the right balance of medication.

Thanks for the input, at least it's not just my imagination. Feel almost human again.

Cheers

Toto

Hi Toto,

The statin pressure (as in YOU'VE GOT TO TAKE IT!) is everywhere. Blame Sir Magdi Yacoub in the UK, who wants them OTC and off prescription. I wish the docs would give a bit more time to see whether diet change and exercise gets the lipids back to where they're supposed to be. Unless the risk of CVD is high (familial hypercholesterolemia) or somebody is at imminent risk of or has ongoing CVD issues this is often all takes. Taking  plant sterols/stanol tablets every day (which blocks cholesterol uptake from the gut) cutting down cholesterol-rich food (cheese, meat, eggs, high fat milk) and getting trans fatty acids out of the diet is often all that is required. Plus exercise.

Ask the doc about the following and where you fit in:

Ferket BS, et al. Personalized prediction of lifetime benefits with  statin therapy for asymptomatic individuals: a modeling study. PLoS Med.  2012 Dec;9(12):e1001361. doi: 10.1371/journal.pmed.1001361. Epub 2012  Dec 27.

"When individuals are informed about the true facts about the likely  benefits, hardly without exception they take a pass. And that’s before  we even get to talk about the potential side effects such as fatigue,  muscle pain and memory loss." (Dr. John Biffa).

Nigel

[Not my specialty, but it is my wife's].

Hi Nigel,

I certainly don't need any more fatigue or the addition of muscle pain. I already get joint pain with arthritis.
The memory isn't the best at times either, especially short term memory.

Worth looking into.

Toto

A few months ago, a young Doctor made a programme for the ABC where she interviewed a half a dozen people who had stopped taking their statins.  It was clearly biased, as only one member of the medical profession was interviewed.  Naturally he said it was a bad idea.

The young woman concerned was lucky not to lose her job over it.

It cause an uproar here and the ABC was forced to make a retraction.

My previous family doctor who my folks still attend said if she had her way she would have everybody on them.

Clearly needs a bit more reading into. :hmm

Toto

I'm a bit of an expert on statins, Tom as I've been on them for fifteen years.

It took me a couple of brands to get one that suited my biology.

My cardiologist confirmed that 95% of your cholesterol is produced by your body, so only 5% is capable of being affected by what you eat.  (We're big on sterol margarines here).    . . . or how much you exercise.

There are several risk factors for cardio-vascular disease . . .

not in any order . . .

Family history

Obesity

High blood pressure

High cholesterol

Smoking

. . . to name some of them.

So, if you're the fat son of a CV sufferer, with high blood pressure, high cholesterol and you smoke - get ready for a heart attack or a stroke.

My family almost all died from CV disease.  Fifteen years ago, I had heart surgery.  I changed the things I could change.

I stopped smoking, started exercising, changed my diet - reduced my weight to around 80 kg, took blood pressure medication to reduce my blood pressure from 190/100 to 134/75, took statins to reduce my cholesterol from 12.5 to 5

I'm still working full time, playing in a band and playing with toy trains.

Just sayin'

I've been on statins for years and don't suffer from mood swings although i do feel lathargic at times and short term memory loss is a problem.The doctor did change my statins from simvastatins to pravastatins due to conflict with other tablets i take.Like most of us it seems i don't do enough to help myself.

If I follow this right, it could be a another change of Statin's that I need? The doctor informed me that the cost was a lot higher with pravastatins that's why he started me on Simvastin, I know the NHS is cost conscience but it must cost more in the long run with more CV problems??
My cholesterol level was 6, is that too high??

Cheers
Ron

I think Doctors are too quick to prescribe pills , but then don't follow up and adjust dosage / remove pills as your needs change and also monitoring the effects of different pills for different symptoms and how they react to each other…my mum ended up on 14 tablets a day prescribed by different doctors to treat different symptoms…. One day she went to her family doctor ,put all 14 in front of him and asked for an explanation as to what each was for and how thecoctail of pills was reacting together…..she's now on just 3 as most of them were conflicting with each other. So don't be afraid to ask the questions

 " why do I need it , what does it do and can I change my lifestyle to have the same effect without the pills "  

Matt is right.  Talk to your doctor.

My prescriptions are reviewed every six months.

I have my own BP machine and I keep a spread sheet of the readings.

I have an ambulatory BP 24 hour machine review annually.

I have an ECG annually and an echocardiogram every two years, followed by a stress test.

Every year I have a blood test which covers every possible disease you can get in your later years.

Followed by a review with my GP after each one.

And of course, the digital prostate test. 

And a black light examination of my skin for melanoma.

Talk to your doctor and make sure he's listening to you.  If he's not, find one who will.

G'day Toto,
Yes 6 is in the high range but can be easily controlled with medication and some modification of diet.
I know you are dreading facing a cocktail of medications, however with input from you in the form of regular exercise and less sugary and fatty foods may result in lower doses of those medications being required. You need professional advice regarding exercise and diet tailored to your situation. Your doctor should be able to advise you in this regard.
I take four medications daily for blood pressure, cholesterol, blood thinners and osteoperosis. I have a 40% blockage in one artery.
I have changed my diet based on dietry advice and I walk for one hour every day. All my bad readings have been converted to good readings because of medication and my input.
My aim is to hang around on this world for a good while yet because like you, I've got things to do,!
Chin up mate….it will get sorted …..and pretty soon you'll be a lean mean fighting machine.
Cheers
Gormo

Hi Max,

It's a bad idea taking statins or stopping them? Statins have a role in the management of cholesterol, the issue is that for the majority of people with high cholesterol but low CVD risk we're talking about 3 months life extension and 7 months CVD extension. Statins become less effective with age, so should we all be taking them after passing 45 years old? That's the current debate. 

The FDA is becoming increasingly concerned about the safety of statins. And that alone should give everybody pause for reflection, because they have the biggest single country population database on which to base recommendations.


It's cheap healthcare based not on patients but on statistics. 

Nigel

It's OK everybody taking Statin's but they seem to have more side effects than any other drugs?? What does the Canadian database say about side effects, anything??

Still sitting on the fence here, changed my diet and now having a dog gives me my daily exercise (as well as work!)

Cheers
Ron

Hi Nigel

It's a bad idea to listen to people from The Flat Earth Society when they give gratuitous medical advice.

As I said in my earlier post, a young doctor who makes "scientific" programmes for the ABC nearly lost her job for promoting this hysteria.

Cheers

Hi Max and Toto

First Max. Yes it is, which is why I don't. I prefer evidenced-based data not conjecture or generalities or head in the sand thinking. There is no hysteria (apart from the babble of the uninformed with particular axes to grind who will misquote anything), just some hard analyses of the data. The FDA, not known for being an excitable bunch of people, has its concerns on public record, and we should rightly ignore the idiots who say statins are not required, they are, but their impact in low risk individuals is highly questionable (the asymptomatic individuals). The underlying point is that statin therapy is individualized therapy, blanket statements from Sir Yakoub Magdi, one of the UK's most renowned cardiologists, last year that everyone should be taking a statin are just not helpful to patients or family practitioners who get the fun of looking after the majority of patients. If they are right then as a population we are all overweight, gorging on cholesterol and trans-fatty acids, under-exercised and smoking 50 a day. Unfortunately that could apply to a fair slice of western humanity…….

Now Toto. Every lifestyle change and dietary change recommended as a means of reducing CVD is evidence based, as is the protective effect of statins in individuals at risk for CVD or with ongoingCVD. What is not so clear is should we all be taking them, when it is clear that the effects are marginal at best in individuals at low risk (the asymptomatic individuals).

Risk factors that can be easily changed are diet, physical activity, BMI (weight/height ratio), and smoking. Classified as CV health behavior. Blood pressure, total cholesterol and glucose are CV health factors and often need managing. Very few individuals have a highly favorable set of risk factors, one paper I read recently was putting this at less than 20%.

Max's case history (Max - way too much information, interesting though it was, and it shows what can be achieved, Bravo!) is a case in point. The behavioral factors were changed, and the health factors managed. The reduction in cholesterol is an example of what the therapy can do, all the evidence would point to the statin And Max is right, there are plenty of statins to go through before throwing in the towel.

I'll quote the editors summary from the article (based on a 3500 patient study conducted over 7 years in Holland) as it makes interesting reading:

"Established risk factors for CVD include smoking, high blood pressure,  obesity, and high blood levels of a fat called low-density lipoprotein  (“bad cholesterol”). Because many of these risk factors can be modified  by lifestyle changes and by drugs, CVD can be prevented. Thus,  physicians can assess a healthy individual's risk of developing CVD  using a CVD prediction model (equations that take into account the CVD  risk factors to which the individual is exposed) and can then recommend  lifestyle changes and medications to reduce that individual's CVD risk." Translation - review extensively with your doctor after fessing up to all those bad habits (fish and chips thrice weekly and 40 a day).

"The model estimated that statin therapy increases average life  expectancy in the study population by 0.3 years and average CVD-free  life expectancy by 0.7 years." The study showed that statin therapy became more favorable the more severe the CVD risk, no surprises there. So an asymptomatic individual with few risk factors gets less benefit from statin therapy than an individual with a large number of risk factors, where there might be an increase of life expectancy of one year.

Now the kicker that's got the alarmists arms raised: "These findings suggest that statin therapy can lead on average to small  gains in total life expectancy and slightly larger gains in CVD-free  life expectancy among healthy individuals, and show that life expectancy  benefits can be predicted using an individual's risk factor profile." Translation - the effect in individuals with low risk factors is minimal. The effect in high risk individuals is real and significant. So why should low-risk individuals be taking statins? Plenty of real and credible data showing that diet and excericise have favorable outcomes on CV risk factors - such as losing 15% body weight and a bit of exercise.

Now the Federal Drug Administration (FDA). The FDA released a consumer note in January 2014 ("FDA expands advice on statin risks"). The major issues were the development of diabetes (type 2) and myopathy (muscle damage, only for lovastatin at this time). The FDA emphasizes that  the value of statin therapy is acknowledged, but that "they need to be taken with care and knowledge of their side effects". Translation - review extensively with your doctor any side effects that develop. And remember, just because it's on the list of side effects doesn't mean you will get it. If it was that bad it wouldn't be on the market.

Sorry for the long post, bottom line, high risk factor profile = diet, exercise, no fags, and statins, and change if necessary until you get one that suites.

Nigel

Thanks Nigel, very informative..

Cheers
Ron

Hi Toto,
You are most welcome. Good look with the docs and ask plenty of questions. 
Nigel