Using Brassmasters' Easi Chas Kit

IIRC Gibson pins are steel, US are brass.  Anyway, I somehow lost a US bushing so had to re-do the outer rod holes (I'll still use a bushes in the center), by soldering in some brass tube and reaming out.

Nice to hear you're making gauges, I expect yours will be perfect.  A friend gave me some track gauges that I only learned later were home made.  He later said, "Oh by the way, those gauges are out so you'll have to compensate".:shock:  This after I'd built several points that didn't seem quite right. :roll:

John

Not so friendly to get those gauges John.
I make sure to use the lathe gauges to measure exact cutting distances plus I profiled a cutting blade to rail width.One is free to build any gauge or standard one wants if given a mind to.C&L have jumped their prices on gauges and given the sterling/euro exchange rate plus post.I was spured on to make my own.
Ah steel and brass a big difference in strength on those pins.
Keep it going,
Derek.

Well, it taught me not to take things for granted and to confirm the dimensions of gauges.  I have a couple of EM B2B gauges that measured undersize, so I beefed them up to 16.5mm.

John

More frustration today.  It seems that every time I turn around one wheelset or another has gone out of gauge or quarter.

I thought I had things cracked this afternoon but when I applied power to the chassis it sort of ran but in short order a coupling rod knuckle joint failed. :twisted:

My thinking is that there are two things (at least) going on:

1)  My quartering is still off and

2) The coupling rod knuckle design is inadequate.

So, had a quick think.

First, I need rods.  The Bachmann rods could be re-used and I took them off to see.  However, they are not fluted, oversize and the bosses are huge.

I then thought, do I have any rods from elsewhere?  Well by a stroke of luck I found some Jinty rods from a previous build that, amazingly, are exactly right!:cheers  Well, maybe not so amazing because this wheelbase was fairly standard on quite a number of LMS locos.

Next, I will dig out some Markits wheels to see how they do.  I am thoroughly fed up with these US wheels.

John

Thats a blow John.Wait months for US to send them and they are all looks and no performance. It looks like a coupling rod is binding and throwing the rod.I assume its on a straight bit of track the problem occurs.If so its either quartering or the coupling rod is catching on a crankpin.
If its on a curve one might look at wheel sideplay clearance as well.
Good luck with the detective work.
Derek.

Actually I was holding the chassis in my hands giving it a static test.  The coupling rods are very fine, but it was the knuckle pin that came out - the result of my tentative soldering I suspect.  You've had your own tribulations with Gibson wheels which are similar in concept.

No, I think I'll bite the bullet and see how the Markits do.  I've remembered that I have a SE Finecast 4F that I bought second hand for, I think, $50.  It has Markits (well probably Romford) wheels. 

Actually, it's about a wash whether you go the EasiChas route or the traditional chassis kit.  It's roughly 10.00 cheaper for the latter and that includes a motor and GB.  I think it's a great pity not to use the RTR drive train but It seems to me that that the chassis kit route is less risky.  You can still buy detailing etches separately from Brassmaster's if you want, but I've found that Bachmann's detail is pretty good anyway.

John

I am glad you found the culprit John.
Those fine scale coupling rods don't give one much metal to work with and soldering knuckle pins is a very delicate job.
Sorry again to mention rivet pins.Those Gibson medium length valve gear ones were what I had in mind for a knuckle pin.Its only a thought and they might not suit the job.It seems a pity to have invested in US wheels and not be able to use them.
Oh the joys of building loco,s.
Derek.

You are right, a shame not to use the US wheels.  Who knows, like Paul on the road to Damascus, I may yet see the light.  However, the wheels are means to an end, the end being a good running locomotive.

I have some brass rivets, so those might have been better.

As I was looking for, and at, the Markits/Romford wheels, I noticed an anomaly.  3Fs (and I think 4Fs) had two sizes of wheel depending on when they were built.  Most of them had 5' 3" (21mm) wheels but a small number of early locos had 4' 11" (20mm) wheels (it doesn't sound a lot but the difference is marked when they are side by side).  The anomaly is that my 3F was fitted with 20mm wheels and the US wheels are also 20mm, yet the number on my loco is in the 21mm wheel dia range.  I have a set of both so I'm going to fit the larger wheels.  These are from that old 4F model and did require the flanges to be turned down.

Hopefully, we'll get to a point today that confirms my ideas.

John

Hi John,The Midland Johnsons class 2900 0-6-0, 1903 had 4'11" 16 spoke IL wheels.Also the Johnson class 3130 0-6-0,1885 had 4'10" 15 spoke PB wheels.Not sure what the LMS class for these are.The 4F 0-6-0 had 5'-3" Wheels 16 spoke PB.1911.
Thats all I can gather at the moment.
Cheers,
Derek.

Hi Derek.  As I said, most 3Fs had 5' 3" wheels (20.8mm or 21mm nom.).  Locos up to and incl 3189 had 4' 11" wheels (19.6mm or 20mm nom). 

I have to admit to an error in my statement above, coming from not doing the math thoroughly.  The wheels on the 3F are, in fact 21mm, so correct for all but the earlier members of the class.

The wheels I took off the old 4F, are 21.6mm or 22mm nom, and actually scale to 5' 5".  It's those darned fractions  and guzzintas :roll:.

All 4Fs were built with 5' 3" wheels (and I checked every source I have), and my Bachmann 4F comes out correct there.

So, back on track with some Markits 21mm wheels.

The other thing I looked at was the Bachmann 3F and 4F wheels, flanges in particular.  Difficult to measure but appear to be ~ 0.6mm thick, very much in line with Markits and EM Spec.  I tried a wheelset on an EMGS axle and there does seem to be generous side play between the flanges and inside of rail.  They are still pretty thick but less so than older wheels and come out at ~2.6mm.  Romford and Markits are 2.45mm thick, while the US wheels are 2.2mm.

My point, probably lost in all those numbers, is that newer Bachmann wheels could feasibly be used for EM, if only they could be induced to grip the EMGS axles.  Depending on body and splashers, the wheel fronts may need thinning.

John

Ah, now I feel better.  I just fitted the Markits wheels and new rods and the chassis runs smoothly!  No problems other than the usual fettling to get moving surfaces working freely.

Dare I say, that we are on the home stretch now.  My next task will to fit wipers and complete the tender (the loco won't run without it).

John

Thats excellent news John.
I think there is a loctite glue designed for metal plastic joins,Could be 501 will have to check.
Bachman wheels are excellent rollers a little thinning and they would be grand.
I am building a comet 2 stage gearbox at the moment.I need to get some new soldering iron bits for my 50W job.The one I have is to big for those fiddle jobs.Great for outside jobs on the metal but getting into tight corners another matter.
Cheers,
Derek.

I used Loctite 603 on one side the US wheels/axles - can't shift it.  I must work out the best way to use it on the other side while, at the same time maintaining gauge and getting quartering right, all before the Loctite goes off.  I still have the 4F to do when the EasiChas kit comes out.

I had to go to C&L for the 603.  I hunted high and low over here for sleeve locker but never could find it.  Thread locker is easy to come by.

I need to do a check with the body before going any further, I hope there's no foul.  Otherwise it will mean everything has to come off and the wheels thinned. :roll:

I'm very interested in how you get on with your gearbox.

John

Hi John,So far the gearbox is progressing well.I ended up super glueing those tight inside fold lines on the box.Not my prefered method when I get the right soldering iron bits made up will solder in future jobs.Will post some photo's later.I think glues and paints are now banned for postal delivery to us overseas customer,s.
Your axle box system should allow assembly of wheels ready quartered before instalation. Thread the boxes onto the axle.Quarter the wheels and slide axles and boxes onto the chassis then fix axle boxes in place.A quartering jig could be used for setting up the wheels before instalation to the chassis useing that method.?.
Cheers,
Derek.

I don't like glue for brass assembly, but if it works…

Yep, I agree with all you've said.  I can get the wheels quartered OK, but getting them to maintain quarter is the challenge.  Loctite 603 is the answer, but getting it between the wheel bore and axle, after that, is another question.:hmm

I've been doing a trial fit of the body.  Very tight clearances!  I ground away at the inside of the splashers.  The footplate is Mazak, while the splashers themselves are plastic (Brassmasters offer replacement brass ones for the 3F and, in Jan., the 4F).  I don't mind if the wheels touch plastic, but contact with the Mazak is a no-no.  I filed down the grease points on the rods and even replaced the crankpin washer on the center drivers with a 16BA nut to gain ~ 0.5mm.

Not sure that springing is all that good an idea for EM.  In P4, wheels are significantly thinner so they'll clear the footplate easily.

John

 

Hmm,I sorted that soldering iron bit size problem,Made a new bit which will fit nicely into those tight spots.
Loctite have introduced a new glue 4090.Its got high structural strength and with the fast set abitity.It glues metal,plastic's etc.Thats the one I am going to get next.
Tight clearances are the bain of changing gauges.P4 you have smaller flange depth and thinner wheels.Have you any way of turning down the wheel threads to give a better profile ? plus more clearance.One needs of course some decent sideplay for the less than prototype radius track curves.It all gets a bit complicated.
Hope you can fettle those splashers and footplate pests.
Cheers,
Derek.

Glad you got your iron sorted.

I will look for that glue, but it seems 603 works well enough for the moment.

I can turn down flanges using my Dremel and a file, but I wouldn't want to touch anything where concentricity is critical.

Part of the issue I could see was that at full upward travel, the rod grease points and crankpin nuts were frighteningly close to the footplate.  The brake hanger wires were also very close to the wheel flanges, so I've thinned those as well.

I had a brainwave after my last post and that was to solder some brass strip to the top of the bearings as a snubber to limit upward travel.  I'll only get about half the travel but I'll have better clearance at the footplate.  For the splashers, I'll paint on some nail varnish just to make sure there is insulation.

John

:)Good thinking John with the up travel.Guy Williams reckoned you only need 1mm travel in total thats 0.5mm up or down.

You need a lathe do do accurate facing off of wheel treads any of your friends have one?.

I have the Comet gear box finished my new soldering iron bit made of brass,Not my first choice but I did not have any PB of the right dia. It works fine if well tinned.

Gearbox axles are nice and true with no slop including the gear carrying axle.Just need to fit spacing rings and gears/motor.

Some photo,s hope you don't mind.

Derek.

Thanks, I've put the wheels sets back in and the up and down travel seems stiffer - not surprising that.  Real locos didn't exactly have squishy suspension anyway.  I didn't measure the travel, it seems to be around 1mm, maybe a bit less.

You're right about needing a lathe to reduce the face of a wheel.  It can be done with the Dremel and an assortment of files, but that is tedious.

Thanks for the gearbox pics.  Now I want to see the gears in and backlash established.  This it all where it went horribly wrong for me.

John

At least I got something finished, the tender:




The brakes, the weakest part of the Bachmann model are now in line with the wheels and, of course, it's sprung.

I used a Markits vacuum pipe, the Bachmann item seems wimbly to me, although I expect I'll be told they're scale.

The coupling is further in than usual but I'm taking advantage of the sprung buffers.  I've done some testing on various wagons and it works, as shown here:




The buffers are nicely close together and when propelling through a point (the acid test), compress prettily without locking up.

John