I have just forked out €73 for ink cartridges for my HP Envy 4500 printer.  The "XL" high yield tri-colour and black - one of each.

That Gentlemen, is an absolute rip off in my book.

My question therefore, relates to which offers me the best option - sticking with my inkjet or looking towards a colour laser printer.

I understand inkjets offer better quality colour printing than lasers do but how much better ?

My main colour printing is Scalescenes kits, not photographic work.  Is a laser good enough to print these in decent colour ?

I know initially they're more expensive but the cost per page is very much lower than with inkjets.

What thinks you Gentlemen ?

Hi Peter,

I can't answer your question. Generally laser printers are for high-volume office work rather than  occasional one-off home printing. For model kits you may want to print  on thicker paper or thin card, which laser printers might not handle. Also laser printers heat the paper, which may cause some differential shrinkage, so that kit parts don't align together accurately.

But I can tell you that I have just replaced my inkjet printer after the previous one failed. I'm fed up with the low reliability of expensive printers so I decided to get the cheapest I could find that would do the job until it falls to bits.

For a lot less than you paid for 2 cartridges I have obtained an all-in-one A4 scanner/printer complete with 2 ink cartridges:

 Canon TS3351

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-PIXMA-TS3351-Multifunction-Printer/dp/B07WP5TWSS

And it's brilliant. Instantly connected itself to my computer. Excellent quality colour prints. The scanner is not quite as good as my Epson Photo Scanner, but more than I expected for the money.

Yes it's slow. Yes it takes only about 50 sheets of paper at a time. It wouldn't be much good as an office printer. But for occasional home use it's great value for the money.

And the XL-capacity cartridges are not too expensive, a set of 2 with some bundled postcard size photo paper is £36 :

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/CANON-PG-545XL-CL-546XL-Photo-Cartridge/dp/B015OW6D9A

It's only a week old, so I can't say whether it will fall apart within months, but so far it is working fine. The difference in cost from a colour laser printer would pay for a lot of ink.

cheers,

Martin.

Thanks for this Martin.

My printer originally cost a lot less than the price of these two latest cartridges too !!!

I've had several printers in the past - all inkjet and all fairly cheap to buy but an arm and a leg to run.   This HP is the first I've had as a "home" printer, i.e. "occasional use" where I haven't had problems with ink drying out.

Other than the cost of the ink, it's a great printer - an "all in one" and generally, does a fine job.

I followed your link to the Canon printer, I've had Canon in the past, and note there only appears to be 2 reviews - 1 at 4.5 stars and 1 at 1 star !!!  Whilst I know these reviews can be misleading, I do tend to look at who's saying what about a product before buying…….

Having said that, the Pixma range does seem to have quite a good reputation although I have no idea how wide the range is - it could be like the Renault Megane car which seems to include every Renault car currently manufactured…………..

I think in fact, I'll stick with the inkjets and accept my Scalescenes kits are not going to be cheap.  Your comments about Lasers heating paper and only really coming into their own with high volume output.  Also, my major concern is colour print quality.  The general consensus is that inkjets beat lasers almost every time on colour.

I'll just have to grunt every time I replace the cartridges - hopefully, not that often unless I'm in my "Scalescenes" mood !!!

Peter,

I've mentioned this before, I get all my printing done at the local Office supplies company. Very high consistent quality  with out me having to worry about hardware, supplies etc. You've seen the Scalescenes based models I've built. I can get them printed on up to 300gsm stock. You can probably even email in an order to a comparable supplier with the files and get them mailed to you or held for collection..

I've never owned a colour printer and never will! I leave quality printing to those with the seriously expensive hardware which they keep calibrated.


Printing off A4 sheets at 70c a page 100gsm, + cost of heavier wt stock if needed I think they are an absolute bargain.
Are you sure owning a printer is the best solution?

 

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

I followed your link to the Canon printer, I've had Canon in the past, and note there only appears to be 2 reviews - 1 at 4.5 stars and 1 at 1 star !!!  Whilst I know these reviews can be misleading, I do tend to look at who's saying what about a product before buying……

Hi Peter,

I think that is only for the white version – the black version has 303 UK reviews on Argos:

 https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7630552

and 140 reviews worldwide on Amazon:

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-PIXMA-TS3350-Multifunction-Printer/product-reviews/B07WV59HLM/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_show_all_btm

I don't know how many for the red version:

 fcstationers.com - Ce site web est à vendre ! - Ressources et information concernant fcstationers Resources and Information.

cheers,

Martin.

I've been using  OKI colour laser printers for over 15 years, I used to work repairing printers that cured me of ever considering buying an ink jet, - clogged jets and exorbitant refills.  OK so a set of toner cartridges costs more than an inkjet set, however a toner cartridge will print far more pages than an ink jet, so when you work out cost per page then you see the difference.
The OKI will print on paper or card up to 220gsm and "banners" up to 1320mm/4'4" long, ideal for backscenes.

[user=1984]Martin Wynne[/user] wrote:

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

I followed your link to the Canon printer, I've had Canon in the past, and note there only appears to be 2 reviews - 1 at 4.5 stars and 1 at 1 star !!!  Whilst I know these reviews can be misleading, I do tend to look at who's saying what about a product before buying……

Hi Peter,

I think that is only for the white version – the black version has 303 UK reviews on Argos:

 https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7630552

and 140 reviews worldwide on Amazon:

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-PIXMA-TS3350-Multifunction-Printer/product-reviews/B07WV59HLM/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_show_all_btm

I don't know how many for the red version:

 https://gb.fcstationers.com/gb/en/products/e137f38f7f.html

cheers,

Martin.

Absolutely no colour prejudice in this house Martin !!   I may have to change the decor in my study for the technicolour ones but what the hell.   

[user=1397]Dorsetmike[/user] wrote:

I've been using  OKI colour laser printers for over 15 years, I used to work repairing printers that cured me of ever considering buying an ink jet, - clogged jets and exorbitant refills.  OK so a set of toner cartridges costs more than an inkjet set, however a toner cartridge will print far more pages than an ink jet, so when you work out cost per page then you see the difference.
The OKI will print on paper or card up to 220gsm and "banners" up to 1320mm/4'4" long, ideal for backscenes.

As with everything Mike, I suppose it depends on which model one has.

I just had a quick look at OKI and they range in price from around €220 up to well over €1000.  I certainly couldn't go anywhere near that top end and, looking at the lower end, one model I looked at takes 4 toner cartridges - black, yellow, cyan and magenta - each costing around €80 !!  Irrespective of the print quality from these low end laser printers, I'd need to build one heck of a lot of Scalescenes kits to justify that kind of outlay.  Then there's the card, and then the glue, then the knife blades ………….wow, it all starts to look horribly expensive …………………….. :hmm 

Hi Peter,

I used to have quite expensive home inkjet printers, including an A3 Epson years ago, and I've worked with one or two professional ones too. My conclusion is that they are all temperamental, and they all hate to be left standing for more than a few days. You also use heaps of ink cleaning the print-heads!
I used to work in an office which had inkjets rather than laser printers and they used cheapo aftermarket cartridges – these worked well because the printers were in constant use, and the prints didn't need to be colour-fast. I tried some in my home printer, and having left it for a couple of weeks between use, the printhead was ruined.
The office I work in now has a colour laser printer and has been very reliable. The prints are not quite as good as an inkjet using photo or coated paper, but these prints are on standard quality paper. If you were to use standard paper on an inkjet the prints would look terrible!
At the moment I do not own a printer, and do not plan to; but if I was going to, it would be a good quality colour laser printer. For me, buying another inkjet would be a waste of money as it wouldn't have enough use to keep the printhead in good condition.

All the best

Gordon :-)

[user=2099]Gordon Curtis[/user] wrote:

For me, buying another inkjet would be a waste of money as it wouldn't have enough use to keep the printhead in good condition.

Hi Gordon,

There are two types of inkjet printer. The Epson printers are notorious for dried-up printheads because they contain the original printhead fixed within the printer, separate from the ink cartridges.

The second type of printer has the printhead integrated in the ink cartridge. It makes the ink cartridges more expensive, but it means you get a new printhead every time you replace the cartridge. Fitting new new cartridges in such a printer means in effect you get a brand new printer every time, apart from wear and tear in the mechanism.  Which for occasional home use shouldn't be too bad.

My previous now-ditched expensive printer had the printheads fixed in the printer, and they were always getting clogged up, and wasting gallons of ink try to get them to print clear.

For the cheapo printer I have just obtained to replace it, I made sure it had the printheads integrated in the cartridge, this is one of them:



That's for the Canon TS3350 series printers.

I decided that if the original printer is cheap enough, I can afford to pay a bit more for the ink cartridges if it avoids all the faff and time-wasting involved in getting the printheads clean. It means that if I don't use the printer for several months it will likely need new ink cartridges before it will be usable again, but it will work again straightaway as soon as I fit them.

Finding out which printers have integrated cartridge printheads is a pain, I don't understand why the makers keep it a secret, but Google is your friend.

cheers,

Martin. 

Hi Peter

When I first started to make Scalescene models 10 +/- years ago I bought a laser printer- I wasnt too impressed with the printing from my inkjet and more importantly John Wiffen of Scalescene recommended using laser printers.

Over the years I have been very happy with the results…… based on a tip from Doug (Chubber), I use the cheapest grade of copying paper and spray the every sheet with anti U/V artists fixative immediately after printing.

You are correct there are a lot of "hidden" costs associated with Scalescene modelling. It would be interesting to see a comparison with a similar Metcalfe model. The x factor would be calculating the advantage of the width of the Scalescene range and its versatility for kit bashing. 

Hi Martin,
I agree with your comments regarding the integral printhead. but when most of the cost of the printer is in the cartridges, the inkjet still to be far less economical than a laser printer if every time I needed to use it I needed to buy a new set of carts.

It is interesting that when you buy an inkjet printer, that the cartridges are not full! It is how the sneaky manufacturers keep the printer price low and, thus, tempting for the consumer to buy, and trapped into buying the hideously expensive cartridges.

Another trick our wonderful and environmental manufacturers do is to add a chip to the cartridge to tell the printer when the cartridge has run its course. The cartridge might still be full of ink because the kind of pictures didn't use that much of that particular colour, but so far as the printer is concerned, it's game over and you need to buy another cartridge.

No, for me, I'd 100% go with a Laser printer unless I needed to regularly print photo quality photographs.

As it is, I just do the odd print I need at work…

Gordon :-)

  An interesting choice Peter,

It can often be difficult deciding how to divy up the RLW tokens when building our railway empires, as we would all wish to excel in every aspect of our wonderful hobby.
 
I really like painting things, so paper and card structures will never be in abundance on my railway, but if they were, I would want them to look their very possible best, so I would follow the experts and use their well-tried and proven techniques.
 
Notwithstanding my personal building preferences, I have not seen more consistently satisfying Scalescenes buildings than those produced by our very own Mr Chubber of this parish. Although it’s always worthwhile posing the question, ‘What would Doug do?’, I think it really depends on how many Scalescenes sheets you’ll be using. If you have the true addiction to Mr Wiffen’s excellent product, then spending the RLW tokens on the best printer for the job may be the way to go, while for a more modest consumption, having the sheets professionally printed makes better good use of those valuable tokens!
 
Choose smartly,
 
Bill

I do a lot of spreadsheet printing for not only my rail empire in timetables etc but for the large model train show I am involved with so my Epson printer gets used at least every other day & in May of each year, spends at least 2 full days printing out passes, etc & I get the cost back from the club.

I have an HP all in one Peter and yes ink cartridges are a rip off but basically the manufactuers sell the printers almost as  a loss leader and then recoup and make money from the ink. I've gone down the route of refilling the cartridges myself with good quality ink which saves a fortune  :thumbs. Things to be aware of though, 

1) you need to have three cartridges of each colour to be able to rotate them. The machines are set to 'remember' the last two cartridges used and will tell you that they are empty even if you have refilled them.

2) The machine will tell you that the Cartridge is 'out of date' and you need to replace it. It's ok just 
press 'OK to continue'

2) when using them the printer will give you 'Dire warnings'  about voiding service warranty if you use out of date cartridges. It's ok just press 'Ok to continue' 

If you're like me then the machine is almost 8 years old and has been ''out of service warranty' for the last six years and nope its not blown up or stopped working. all that happens is that the machine can't read the ink level in the replacement cartridges. So occasionally it tells you unable to print and to replace x,y or z Cartridge.  What I tend to do if SWMBO or myself is going to do a large run is to swap out for a full set anyway and then re fill the old set again to use down the line. Ok it's a bit of a faf each time you start the printer up to clear all the dire warnings and tell it to just 
" Print the ruddy thing" but we tend to just leave it sitting in 'Idle' anyway  :)

Not for everybody but it works for me and saves a ruddy fortune  :cheers

P.S. it's also good for the environment as I'm not sending empty Cartridges to landfill (even those that are not empty just out of date according to H P !)

Cheers

Matt

Hi Matt,

Anyone who makes a machine last much longer than the manufacturer intended gets a thumbs up from me!

I think that with these printers, there isn't a right or wrong, it is all down the individual wants and needs.

Gordon :-)

It makes no sense to buy a home use color printer (ink jet or laser) if only using it for 4-6 paper/card structures a year. Use a print service with a commercial color laser.

I used to use a color ink jet printer until I worked out what each model cost in ink. We now have a b/w laser printer. The print service is significantly cheaper than ink cartridges. $5 for 3 sheets of ledger (11" x 17") on 28 lb paper. Compared with $96 worth of cartridges a year. And no wavy paper as the wet ink dried.

Nigel

Thanks for your input guys - all very interesting and some very valid points.

As someone said - "each to his own" and the interesting reading has made me think really hard about what I actually want to do.

I use ordinary 80 gsm copy paper for all my printing - being lazy, I can't be bothered to keep changing the paper tray and the Scalescenes prints, whilst maybe not the best quality achievable, are perfectly acceptable.

Sending stuff to a print shop doesn't appeal to me, regardless of the difference in quality.  Distance is something to keep in mind here in France - it's far more spread out than UK is so mileages soon clock up with the accompanied cost. More importantly to me, one would lose a major advantage of these kits - that of easily replacing a spoiled part.  A slip with the knife or glue pot could require a re-print.  Using a print house would probably hold the job up for a week or more.

Lasers do really appeal - provided the print quality is up to it.  The down side is their cost.  I'm not sure my level of printing would justify the outlay. I don't print a huge amount of material, although the printer is used maybe 3 times a week other than by Scalescenes but just for the odd letter or so.

I'd be very interested in knowing which printer you've got John - from your posts on here, the print quality looks excellent.

Sod's law suggests that, almost every time I build a Scalescenes kit, one or other of my ink cartridges is low and has to be replaced.  This time the supplier had both in the XL version so I bought them - hence the €73 bill.  I have tried generics in the past but the printer steadfastly refused to allow me to use anything but the genuine HP cartridges even though I followed the "bypass the security block" instructions.  It just wouldn't budge !

Apart from their other advantages and the range, Scalescenes appealed because one got a top quality, strong building quite cheaply.  

The range,  quality and strength are still there but their cost has increased considerably since I built my first one.  Not as expensive as a ready to plonk resin offering but still not the "eco" option they once were - mainly I think, because of ink costs although when I finally use up my card stock, current card prices may also bring a tear to my eyes.

Look at Epson 'Ecotank' printers if you are doing a few sheets per week.
I now have a weekly reminder on my 'phone to print out my homemade test sheet, just a couple of lines of colored and b&w letters on my Epson 455x which is now at least 15 years old.
Their Durabrite ink is bomb-proof.