Wiring

Have you seen this:-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Adapter-16V-AC-Out-120V-AC-In-Class-2-Transformer-Suspened-Animation-/261002686459?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item3cc4f8effb

Good find Geoff.  I don't do eBay but at least I know they exist.  It seems to have a low current rating though (although I don't really have any idea of the load these signals take - miniscule I would guess).

John

 

An update.  I haven't heard back from Dapol Dave.  I have been in contact with Model Railway Imports who were able to recommend the Hornby C996. 

http://www.modelrailwayimports.com/product.php?PID=3204&CID=0&BID=0&TID=0&SID=0&q=c996

This is on order.

This whole saga is really only an issue for folk in N. America or whose indigenous DC Controllers output more than 16VAC.

John

A good point about the electrics John - it can be confusing for Europeans (and Aussies too I'd guess) unless we remember that you have different voltages and cycles over there.

I was recently looking at soldering stations and thought wow, they're much cheaper in the States than here, then I remembered they run on 120 volts not 240.

I suppose if you're only getting half the volts, you'd only expect to pay half the price …………….

I don't know about the volts Peter, but things are ALWAYS cheaper in the US.  Even though our dollars are more or less at par, we still pay between 10 and 20% more for stuff - and after that the government takes 15% more! :twisted:

I'm actually surprised that more people from over here haven't chipped in.  These are good sellers.  I was talking to Steve at MRI who tells me that he and the distributor haven't had any complaints.  Wonders….is it just me?

John

 

Another update.  I received the Hornby power supply yesterday and confirmed it worked.  I also got a pair of Hornby passing contact switches and wired these up.  Switch function was confirmed by the use of a lamp.  When connected to both signals however, neither of them worked.  I think its back to Dapol with these.

I'd really love to hear from someone who has wired these up and got them working.

I've been told that Dapol chose AC so that it wouldn't matter which way the wires were connected - simplicity.

Dapol also say that to use DC will burn out the motor.

John

Using DC should not burn out motors if using passing contact switches but without a circuit on how it is wired up internally, a bit hard to confirm one way or the other. A capacitor ( non -electrolytic) of a reasonable size, is no bar to AC of 16v,  50/60 Hz but will stop DC.

Ron, someone on RMweb claims to have had his working off a 9V battery (because he didn't have an AC supply handy).  In the same thread, there's a picture of one taken apart.


http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53096-dapol-working-signals-review/page__st__325

Page 14


I've got to wonder with the prevalence of DCC and so many people going straight into it, there aren't going to be a lot of people with an AC supply available via their old DC controller.  I've been told that Hornby trainset DC controllers don't have an AC output.  As discussed above, these signals don't lend themselves to DCC operation.

John

Not sure for the North American market but Gaugemaster make as small 16vAC supply
The Model Shop for Big Imaginations | Gaugemaster WM1

I have a Hornby 16VAC power supply Ron.  The signals don't work (or I couldn't get them to - so much for simplicity).  Dapol is in the loop so we'll see where this goes.

My original question was to find out who else has these and what their experience has been - I'm still waiting for that.

John

 

Had a conversation with a couple of chaps over on Model Rail Forum this morning and I finally figured out where I had gone wrong.  The signal arm motor is supposed to wired in series with the LED, not separately, as I had thought.

This link tells the story:

http://www.cravenmodels.com/DAPOLSIGNALHELP.htm

Scroll down the page.  The Dapol instructions are reproduced but Cravens added a page with diagrams.

I wish I'd known this three weeks ago - so many tears could have been averted.

John

 

 

 

There is a lot of info in Cravens site. The Dapol signal info is good, even I understand it - I have heard of that type of circuit before to operate a coil.
I am glad you have it sussed out now.

The new signals arrived and I wired them up according to the Cravens instructions.  Success!  They both work!  I used Hornby passing contact switches which are not great - you have to futz around getting them to make contact.  I may just go back to the press to make switches.

John

[user=565]Brossard[/user] wrote:

 I used Hornby passing contact switches which are not great - you have to futz around getting them to make contact. 
John

That is why I prefer the Peco units - they also only give one pulse per movement whereas the older Hornby give 2 .

 

Nice to hear that success has been obtained John.

Thanks Ron.  Not one of my more brilliant escapades.  Good tip on the Peco switches.

John

John
 
I have just installed a Dapol 4mm signal exactly as instructed with 16V AC on the black and red wires and a push-to-make on the two yellow ones.

The signal worked fine for 5 or 6 operations and then started to "chatter" as if it was trying to work.  Then nothing.

I think it fried the supply transformer as well

Is there an issue with these things?  What was Dapol Dave's response?  I'm £30 down and no signal.  If it's me then, fine, I'll take the hit but I can't say I'm impressed with the unit at this stage.

Barry

Barry, as I recall, the Dapol instructions were not at all clear and it is easy (as I found) to stuff up the electrics.  Cravenmodels did issue some good instructions but the link I posted above seems to be dead.  If you Google this you will find several YouTube accounts of installation.  I wish I had taken a copy of the Cravens thing but I don't see it in my files.

John

John. I'm not so sure the instructions were bad. It seems that the circuit is very prone to damage by 2nd rate operating switches. I used a fairly cheap push-to-make and suspect that was my downfall. A passing contact switch may have avoided keeping the power on for too long
Still not over impressed but tempted to try another one using a better switch. If it was that vital perhaps they should follow the Peco lead and sell a range of switches as well. 

Btw - did you ever get a reply from Dapol Dave? 

Barry

Barry, when I set up the signals properly I used a pair of Hornby passing contact switches.  These weren't the best and a bit of a fiddle to make a circuit.  However, these stayed in place for many years without a problem until the layout was dismantled last year.

Checking the thread, I also bought a cheapish Hornby power supply.

No, I don't recall getting anything from Dave.

Best of luck with yours.

John

As supplied these signals in my view are not fit for purpose. I bought one when they first came out, installed it as instructed and it failed after about 20 cycles. As I'd bought it at the other end of the country on my travels and weathered it I took the financial hit and bought another. That did exactly the same in a shorter space of time.

I have talked to many people using them on layouts and the rate of failure is very, very high.
Dapol must know of this problem but have seemingly done nothing about it. I wouldn't buy any more Dapol signals.

There is a lengthy thread on RMweb saying the same thing and it seems that the problem is the instruction to use 16v ac. Many seem to now have had success using 12v dc although I can't confirm this works as I took a different route. I stripped out the motor and gubbins which looks like cheap chinese crap and fitted a Little Jemmy motor which works a treat.