Help needed please.

I have installed an advanced starter at Weybourne as per real life but I'm not sure of it's usage?
I have a light signal as a starter at the platform end, how does the advanced starter work from a driver's perspective please?


Advanced starter as per Weybourne.



Platform starter (unprototypical as semiphores at original!)

Thanks
Ron

Try this Ron (if you haven't seen it already).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_semaphore_signal#Advanced_starting

This is a good site for signalling in general.

http://www.signalbox.org/


Ed

Thanks Ed, think I've got it! :)
Cheers
Ron

Another signalling query from Weybourne. Photo's first then my question!







Ok, at the original Weybourne the starter signal has shunting arm for the siding B.
I have a double light signal (as per photo), right for C to A left for C to B but it looks as if the left one
should be a starter for siding D?
Should I move the single colour light (not yet wired up!) nearer to B to control D and the other sidings?

Suggestions would be welcome
Thanks
Ron

Hi Ron

If I understand your diagram and text correctly your running line is from platform road C to route A; B and D are sidings as is the unlabelled route which by cross-referencing photos gives access to the fuel-tanker dock.  The unlabelled route above C I take to be a platform road for the opposite direction.

An advanced starter, often referred to as a Section Signal, indicates that the entire block section ahead is clear for the train to proceed at least as far as the home signal (outer home where used) of the next block.  A driver may assume, having regard to all conditions, that he is safe to proceed at up to the maximum permitted speed for his train on that line.

The platform starter only indicates that the line out of the platform road is clear up to the section signal.  In some locations this is also used as shunt arm to release locomotives not needing to go into the section ahead but having to clear the station in order to set back into a siding or yard.  

At busy locations (more likely to be major suburban stations than Weybourne but anyway ….. ) and under permissive block working a starter can be cleared to permit a train to depart the platform even if the section signal cannot be cleared.  This can allow for one train to be in the forward section, another to pull out of the platform and a third to then be brought up slowly to the inner home ready to enter the platform; a fourth train can also follow through the section in the rear if signalling  overlaps allow and wait at the outer home for everything to move along.

In terms of your track plan the main route is C to A which although it is via a crossover is the principal route and therefore does not require a route indicator.  The left-hand aspect of the pair on the bracket does look as if it applies to siding D and is not really needed if B is only a siding and ultimately goes nowhere.  It is more likely that a miniature or "dolly" light would be used for moves from C to B.  Likewise a miniature aspect or arm would be used for exit moves out of siding D and from the unlabelled siding below that.  

If you add up all the ground level signals around even a fairly simple station / yard set-up they sometimes come to a larger number than you might think.  

Given what you have already showed us I would remove the double-head colour light and replace it with the single one to act as a starter controlling C to A.  Then you need miniature arms / ground lights (which can be sourced as functional parts) for all your shunting moves, C to B, D to B and the unlabelled siding to B.

Thanks Rick, lots of room for thought there, now where shall I put this double light signal, perhaps as an approach home?

Cheers
Ron

Hi Ron,

I don't understand signalling at all. Just can't get. Y head around it. All the different types and colours etc. I may have a gantry at my station area with lights but unfortunately there will be trains doing the run of death as they won't be taking much notice of the signals are running for them or not.

I do like to see layouts that attempt to cover these things though……. Just another skill and facet of the hobby.

Cheers

Toto

I've used Train-Tech signals Tom, straight to DCC and programmed them (very easy) with point movement on the samefunction numbers!

Cheers
Ron

Hi Ron,

I'll have a look. I had looked at train tronics which also look good. I'll check your site out though. I won't be buying them for a while yet. No where near ready for them.

Cheers for now

Toto

Look here Tom;
DS Digital DCC Fitted Colour Light Signals

Cheers
Ron

Hi Ron,

These look good and easy installation. I think I would either sink them into the baseboard if possible or model a concrete plinth that they could go into. Possibly secured by magnets for easy removal. I have a great link somewhere on different magnets as supplied a while back by Gormo.

Ideal for this I think. Anyway ……… The signals look good. I also thought about some ground signals for where trains emerge from sidings / local industry area's onto the main line. Again ……way ahead of myself but worth looking at. It's amazing the options that are available.

Thanks for the link.

Cheers toto

Hi Ron,

Rick has set out the general idea. I got my ground signals (colour lights) from CR signals. It is worth looking at their site for running signals too, they have a good range.

I'm not sure how you would deal with the practical problem of mounting a shunt position light signal on the starting signal's post - the wires would be a problem. I would be tempted to put it at ground level at the base of the post, but that is probably incorrect for a general prototype setup.

The other practical problem is of working the signal with DCC. As well as traintronics, LDT have custom signal decoders or you could use a spare address on any accessory decoder if you can set it to give a continuous output. With that the easiest way to connect it to the signal would be through a relay. It all sounds complicated, but taken one step at a time it is not difficult.

Hi Brian, the signals at Weybourne are semiphore so lights are a Rule 1 change! I used the Train Tech's as you just solder 2 wires to the DCC bus and set the Function on the controller, very easy to do. i think I'll leave it as it is, add a R/G starter on the siding for D and also add a Y/R signal on the approach to the station (far left on the plan!) and that's a rule 1 signal as well!

Cheers Ron#]

Right, signalling sorted but I have a big question??I have linked all the signals (2xsemiphore and 4 coloured lights) to there relative points, OK so far but if I run a train or loco in the opposite direction the signals are wrong!Should I leave it this way (the signals also tell me which route is set!) or give the signals separate address's and operate them independantly from the points??
Comments and suggestions please?
CheersRon

If the track is single then you need a signal for each direction, otherwise if its a shunting move then that should have ground (disc) signals. Whichever you use your signal controller needs to know direction of the movement. If the loco is moving when the signal is operated then the direction data should be available, if the loco is not moving then I suspect you need a manual input.

Hi Ron,

As usual, it all depends on how complicated you want to be.

If your Digitrax/Loconet setup can set routes then you could set up a route for each direction you want to use, and make the route set the point, clear the signal and set all the other signals to Danger. That means each signal needs its own address. From there it would be easy to set up a dummy "route" to put the point to Normal and all signals to Danger.

For example, route 12 could set three signals to Danger, point Normal and Left hand signal to Proceed. Route 21: three to Danger, point Normal, RH signal Proceed. Route 102: point Normal, all signals to Danger.

If it cannot set routes then the simplest way is to set signals and points independently. Separate addresses again.

You can probably buy extra hardware for Loconet to give route setting if Digitrax doesn't have it. I don't know how that would compare in cost/complexity with changing to, say, PowerCab which I believe does have route setting as standard.

Thanks Brian, I'll look into it..:)

Cheers
Ron

Well spent some time looking at the subject and decided to upgrade my DCC controller to one with route setting capabilities, so ordered a DCC02 Prodigy Advance 2 starter package!!

Cheers
Ron

I take it that your new system has the same or greater capability with regards to the number of loco addresses and things like that. maybe more I would think. It will probably have a number of two number accessory addresses as well. All controlled from the one handset:thumbs Is there any difference to the current it kicks out?

 

Similar to the NCE power Cab I think. Let us know how you get on with it.

 

cheers

 

toto

(Replied on the Weybourne thread Tom!) Yes similar but many extra functions and hand held so I can remove the box around the Digitrax controller for more scenery!!

Cheers
Ron