..... and we're off!

Having drawn inspiration from David Townsend's McKinley Railway, I have recently invested in the Digitrax Super Chief system.
I was fortunate to by it on eBay and with it came two CML DAC10 units.

I wonder if anyone else uses these units.  I already own a couple of DCC Concepts AD-S8 units used to change my turnouts.  However the DAC10s have Loconet connectivity but don't have a capacitor for each turnout.

I will buy the RR Bronze in the new year along with a couple of Digitrax DBL168 and upgrade to the Silver once I understand how the Bronze works.

So, can anyone give me any advice regarding the usefulness of the CML DAC10 units?

Regards Charlie

I know nothing of Digitrax equipment Charlie - I'm a Lenz man myself - but I too am taking my first steps with RR & Co. :shock::shock::shock:

The strong advice I was given was NOT to jump in and buy it.  "Play" with it first with the free "Trial Edition" download.  Apparently, you only pay for it once you connect it to your layout.  Using the trial version, I've created a "sort of" track plan, although it does need some tweeking.  My next step will be to go through some of the setting up using their simulator.  Only when I'm happy that a) it's for me and b) I have the necessary skills to learn how to use it, will I buy.

I was also advised to look very carefully at what's on offer in the various levels - Bronze, it would appear, is quite limited in what it will do although, if you simply want to run your trains, that's fine.  I think I'll probably go for Gold straight away.  Many "Silver users" quickly upgraded to Gold……………:roll::roll::roll:

Whilst I've seen the McKinley Railway (I think on Trainmasters TV :roll:),  it was Hamburg's "Miniatur Wunderland" that pointed me in the direction of computer control.

Hi Charlie

I am a Lenz man, like Peter, so I am afraid I cant help you with Digitrax. However I have been running my layout with RR&Co for over 6 years…….so I am happy to try and give you any help you may need.

Learning RR&Co is a bit like learning to ski…… a steep learning curve or more accurately a series of steep steps.

If you havent already done so I would encourage you to download the manuals for both Bronze and Silver/Gold…..I think there is a PDF file explaining the differences.

You can also download the software for any or all of the variants……there is no charge. You can use the downloaded software in demo mode for an unlimited time ……you can hook it up to your layout but you can only operate for a very limited time until you purchase the licence and dongle.

I would echo Peter's advice to download and play around with different scenarios…..setting out the switch board for your layout….running simulated trains etc. I did this for 12 months before taking the plunge and in my case it was definitely the right way to go. I found Bronze to be very limited in scope. Silver did all the basics but the more you got to know the system the more you wanted to push the frontiers and to do that you needed Gold.

Good luck and do let us know how you get on

 

Thanks for your very useful advice guys.
Regarding turnouts, my Peco points have the accessory switch fitted for switching the frog current but how do get the feedback for Loconet?
I'm slowly replacing the motors with SEEPs but I don't believe they have a separate feedback circuit either.
What are you guys using?
Regards Charlie

I use Tortoise motors Charlie but I understand some SEEPs have a frog switch built in, those that don't, need an additional microswitch I think. :roll:

Hi Charlie

There is a turnout feedback facility with RR&Co. You connect the second switch output (the first switch being used for changing frog polarity) to an encoder like the Lenz LR101 that I use to connect to my occupancy detectors.  I decided the expense of all the additional encoders wasnt justified so I have no turnout feedback control. I get the occasional mechanical failure when RR&Co think the point has been thrown…..and it hasnt:shock:……..but it is very very rare……fortunately

You do need reliable point motors and equally reliable switches. I found the rat a tat tat of solenoid motors quite tiresome and the unreliability of Peco switches even more so. Halfway through the construction I standardised on Tortoises and for for me that was absolutely the right decision……quiet and totally reliable

For computor control all your points will need to be controlled through DCC turnout decoders. When I started there was a fairly limited selection so I opted for the Lenz LS150………again totally reliable.

However, and Peter may find this of interest, the market has changed somewhat. It may be worth researching the options. Lenz LS150s were designed for solenoid motors……..connecting stall motor turnouts (Tortoises, Cobalts) is a bit mickey mouse  and they throw the tortoi consecutively rather than together. I am used to it now and build in some safety delays but if I were starting again I might choose something else for the Tortoi.

Hope this helps……………have a Great Christmas!

Great info Guys, thanks very much.

I'll replace all future failures with tortoise for sure.
Of course we all end up with a box of serviceable bits that we have out-grown.  Many wasted pounds/dollars!

Have a great Christmas, regards Charlie

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

………………………….

However, and Peter may find this of interest, the market has changed somewhat. ……………………………………………………………………………….. but if I were starting again I might choose something else for the Tortoi.

……………………………………….

The odd clue would help John ………….:hmm

Are we speaking "German" here too but not Lenz ………..? :roll:  I'm sure Lenz stuff is ultra reliable but it is veeeeery expensive …………..:shock:

[user=1768]charliebishop[/user] wrote:

Great info Guys, thanks very much.

I'll replace all future failures with tortoise for sure.
Of course we all end up with a box of serviceable bits that we have out-grown.  Many wasted pounds/dollars!

Have a great Christmas, regards Charlie

Thanks Charlie

I think stall motors are undoubtedly the best. There is an Cobalts are an alternative to Tortoises…..they are made by DCC Concepts and if nothing else the site is worth a look

Cobalt Accessory Decoders - more...

They are not as deep as Tortoi and are easier to wire up (no soldering). When first released they had some quality issues but I believe that has now been sorted

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

………………………….

However, and Peter may find this of interest, the market has changed somewhat. ……………………………………………………………………………….. but if I were starting again I might choose something else for the Tortoi.

……………………………………….

The odd clue would help John ………….:hmm

Are we speaking "German" here too but not Lenz ………..? :roll:  I'm sure Lenz stuff is ultra reliable but it is veeeeery expensive …………..:shock:

Hi Peter

I was actually thinking DCC Concepts but there are other alternatives that Pete could help you with.

I hadnt appreciated until I read Richard Johnson's excellent article on the DCC site  Cobalt Accessory Decoders - more...  that it is better to have Turnout decoders that are designed specifically for the turnout motor they will support.

It does make sense when you think about it…….and it does explain the problem I sometimes have with  RR&Co……when you run a schedule the points are automatically set forward (you predetermine how forward)…….RR&Co assumes that all turnouts on the route are thrown the moment the command is issued.

In fact if the turnouts on the route are operated bythe same Lenz decoder they are not thrown simultaneously nor are they thrown in route order:roll: ……they are thrown in numeric order:shock:

Its not a major issue I have long since established work arounds (selective delays would you believe.)….just an irritant…….so knowing what I know now I would be looking at alternatives including the DCC Concepts stall motor option. My layout is virtually finished so unless I exchange a LS150 theres is nothing I can do but I thought it might be useful for you.

One caveat about DCC Concepts…….you may recall this extract from Granby

However for this exercise I discovered this little gizmo

Its a twin output DCC Concepts solenoid decoder. It throws the point motor, switches the frog polarity and has connections for push buttons and LEDS on a switchboard (albeit redundant in my case as I use RR&Co).    Its very easy to connect up (no soldering) and very simple to programme. I have not been a great fan of DCC Concepts in the past but this is a well priced useful piece of equipment .        

It does what it says on the box and overall I am reasonably satisfied with it…… however there is a major design flaw which it doesnt warn you about…..when you have a power interruption ( short or merely turning off power :roll:) the polarity switch reverts to the off position regardless of the blade position.

So when you start a new session you have a 50% chance of the polarity being incorrect:twisted:  As usual with RR&Co there is a workaround……..I just have those particular points thrown automatically at the start of every session but it would be a right pain operating manually

Hopefully it will be corrected with future releases and I dont know whether this applies to the 8 unit solenoid decoders. I dont believe it applies to stall decoders. It is an example, like the one I referred to above with the cobalts, of products perhaps being rushed to market before all the bugs being sorted……….so caveat emptor……great range of innovative products but be sure to carry out due diligence


Why can I never write about RR&Co in less than 6 paragraphs?:oops:

Cheers 

[user=434]John Dew[/user] wrote:

One caveat about DCC Concepts…….you may recall this extract from Granby

However for this exercise I discovered this little gizmo

Its a twin output DCC Concepts solenoid decoder. It throws the point motor, switches the frog polarity and has connections for push buttons and LEDS on a switchboard (albeit redundant in my case as I use RR&Co).    Its very easy to connect up (no soldering) and very simple to programme. I have not been a great fan of DCC Concepts in the past but this is a well priced useful piece of equipment .        

It does what it says on the box and overall I am reasonably satisfied with it…… however there is a major design flaw which it doesnt warn you about…..when you have a power interruption ( short or merely turning off power :roll:) the polarity switch reverts to the off position regardless of the blade position.

So when you start a new session you have a 50% chance of the polarity being incorrect:twisted:  As usual with RR&Co there is a workaround……..I just have those particular points thrown automatically at the start of every session but it would be a right pain operating manually

Hopefully it will be corrected with future releases and I dont know whether this applies to the 8 unit solenoid decoders. I dont believe it applies to stall decoders. It is an example, like the one I referred to above with the cobalts, of products perhaps being rushed to market before all the bugs being sorted……….so caveat emptor……great range of innovative products but be sure to carry out due diligence




Cheers 

That problem of power failure & thus possible incorrect frog switching is being discussed on MRF currently - Richard Johnson is hoping to update the accessory decoder
DCC Concepts ADS-8fx | Model Railway Forum

I hope this info finds you in timeI am running the Digitrax system and was going to go JMRI but am getting a bit annoyed with it. If I do decide to invest in RR&Co (which I am testing the demo mode) I will go straight for silver as everyone I have spoken to has said that the bronze is good to start with but you soon outgrow it when getting into automation and this would save the upgrade fees in the future.You may want to consider PM42's when you buy BDL168's as they help manage you power in short circuits etc.I have gone for cobalt ip motors as they dont need separate power supply taking their feed from the accessory bus I have run, they don't need accessory decoders so one less thing to wire and also save money over time.I hope this has helped you out.

I am the lone voice on here plugging servos. I use ESU switch pilot servo decoders and standard radio control servos plug straight in. For polarity switching I use cheap microswitches making physical contact with some convenient place in the linkage between servo and tie bar.

I'm plugging servos as well, Brian.  - and the Switch Pilot.

Eventually everyone will get aboard.

[user=1325]Brian R[/user] wrote:

I am the lone voice on here plugging servos. I use ESU switch pilot servo decoders and standard radio control servos plug straight in. For polarity switching I use cheap microswitches making physical contact with some convenient place in the linkage between servo and tie bar.

I have seen megapoints at a few exhibitions and these look like good systems unfortunately I had already started working towards cobalt installation but I am thinking of using this technology for some working level crossing gates, doors and similar. I had a really good chat with the inventor and he has some brilliant technology in the making which will come out later in the year so keep a look out at this.
http://loolee.org/megapoints/