Wire in the Tube Point Control

Hi All                     I am building a Second Puzzle Layout, why? I don't know really, but that's it. A bit more to it than the first one.I had asked Ron (g0ibi) if I could use his idea? and he was okay with it. Ron didn't use WIT point control, but, to an ordinary blokelike me it seemed a good idea. The first WIT points worked without problems,  and I am using the same method this time, a DPDTslide switch set at a distance, with a large radius bend in the wire(no sharp corners). When the point is set normal or reverse,dependent on being a R/H or L/H point, the switch pulls the blades towards, but it dose not push the blades away, but,here's the thing, once the blades have been set, ""Towards" unless the switch is pushed, the blades are under tension and cannotbe pushed by "by the finger from the sky technique", so that means that it should work, but, why? does it not work??Please any sensible easy to follow solutions would be appreciated.        all the best  Kevin

A couple of photos would help to give an answer Kevin but I do know that any WIT using slide switches for turnouts do require that the switch is the only method then to change the turnout - one cannot use  the finger on the turnout.
I have used WIT and still do.
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=1733&forum_id=6
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=14259&forum_id=6

As Ron says, without a picture it's very difficult to visualise the problem Kevin.

I can only guess that the wire is flexing and not held rigid enough when you push the switch back.

Can you move the switch so that there is less of a bend in the WIT.

Straighter the better, is the way I always approach these.


Ed

Hi Ron.  Thank you.  The mention of the finger was only to demonstrate the fact, that there was tension on the points, meaning that the switch should(as in my experience ) be capable of operating the points in both directions. I must say at this moment I have not glued the tube permanently in place, it is just secured with wire to the baseboard, and my or not work once it is glued in place. As it is necessary for the wire to be springy, otherwise it would fold up, as you tried to push, the wire needs holding in position whilst the glue is setting . all the best. Kevin

Hi Ed.  I prefer to have the slide switches at the end of the layout, away from the points, then if (and when) Itake it anywhere with me? it would be clear that I wasn't cheating. As far as photos are concerned, my computer skills? are not up to that level. Although it would be possible, once I buy a bracket? For my iPad to fit onto a tripod, once I have the "Know How" and then I will be "Cooking with Gas?". After all it worked at a greater distance on my other puzzle, it is just that I fancied a puzzle with more moves.
all the best. Kevin

The thing to bear in mind Kevin, is that the DPDT slide switches do not have a great deal of travel.

If you measure (as far as is possible) the distance the slide on the switch moves and the distance the switch blades on the points move, you'll probably find they're almost the same.

So where as you might get away with some flexing in the WIT with a lever, you may not with a DPDT slide switch.


Ed

Hi Ed.  thank you, I'm hoping that once the tube is glued in positIon any "Flexing of the Tube" will be eliminated . DPDT Slide Switches.work okay on the first board, and both boards are four ft long, but the first board@ 14 inches wide, which is 5inches wider, as I decided to go for a slimline board.  all the best. Kevin

Hi Ed.    Another reply? It seems that I have cracked it, the dodgy point control, that is. Now I have been thinking about the spare three connections on the DPDT slide switches? and how I can utilise them to good effect, wiring them to another circuit? a lamp maybe, to indicate which way the points are set? Not proof positive, but something on the way to being useful.  all the best. Kevin

I believe some people do Kevin, but I'm happy looking at the switch to know which way the point is set.

I have on a couple used the other side of the switch to power the appropriate deliberately isolated rail, on each of the approach roads to the heel of the point.

This stops me running a train into the point when it's set against it, preventing derailments and short circuits.

Only works where you have reasonable lengths of track running into the heel of the point though, not much use in yard areas where there may be a number of  points close together.


Ed

HI Kevin,

Did you put omega loops in?

Nigel

Hi Nigel.  Forty odd years ago I did, at that time I used point motors. And the Omega loops were the medium between the motor and point
But, this time around "No", maybe I should have, my original wire for the
WIT and the brass tube were heavy duty, and it would have been necessary to use Omega Loops or Hoops? to connect to the tiny hole in the throw bar. As it is the wire that I am using is both fine and springy,(the packet comes with a health warning, to wear Eye Protection), if it was soft it couldn't cope with pushing the throw bar.
If you think that would solve the issues I have had. Incidentally. at various times I have had all four points working, and then I noticed that one of the points towards the centre of the group was "Severely" out of line. After lifting most of the track, I had to start again, good fun this.
Please advise, all the best. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Is the DPDT switch throw (distance) the same as the switch blade throw (one side to the other)? If the DPDT movement is greater than the switch blade movement you could be binding the wire in the tube. Which is where an Omega loop would help by acting as a spring. You use Peco turnouts, so as soon as they cross the middle they will snap in place. If the switch rail blade is not touching the running rail the cable is too short and under tension. Which could also lead to poor running through the points.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.   Somewhere there was a mention of removing the spring from Peco points, I have tried this, okay, on a spare point. But I don't know how useful it is to do it?    Kevin

Kevin, one of my methods


The brass bar changes direction and the two screw block ( removed from plastic terminal strips) allows adjustment - the slide switches are just perfect for Peco Code 75 turnouts.

Hi Ron.   Thank you, I did buy and demolish some terminal blocks, purchased the brass tube and a springy wire.But the problem was that the wire was too big for the hole, without an omega loop/ hoop as a medium.
Then when I purchased the thinner wire, mostly it worked, I realised it's potential, Now I have two shunting puzzles, the first with two sets of points working as they should, but the the second puzzle, I (sought permission ) copied from another Ron, and that has four sets of points, all these points had been working well, until that is, I drilled the holes too close to one particular point, and shifted it( now it is proving a bit of a devil) causing a failure, but I have to be careful so I don't disturb the other points, it might have been better if I had ballasted the track first then that way the track would have been stable. If I ever figure it out ( taking photos or video for adding to my thread ) I will be able to show you how I got the points to work. I chose to use similar slide switches for my points for convenience as both of my puzzle layouts are made to fit into a "toolbox" to make them portable, and the lid/s would not close with the taller levers(designed especially for mode railways) as recommended to me on YMRC.   all the best. Kevin