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In a moment of madness, I have acquired a small part of an 'N Gauge' layout - no idea why because I don't model N Gauge …….  It did come with 3 controllers that I thought I could maybe sell on - 2 x H&M Duettes and an old Gaugemaster DS 4 track controller.

Having got it home, I was quite impressed with how much one could get into a given space without it looking crowded.

I thought I might just try it out rather than strip the electrics and bin the rest.  My question is - is E-Bay any good for used locomotives or am I better sticking with shop sales - either new or used ?  Obviously at this 'suck it and see'  stage, I'm not going to spend much money on stock but used prices from the likes of Rails seem very high …….

What are your thoughts chaps ?

'Petermac
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Hi Peter,
Did you see the PM's I sent?

Cheers Pete.
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Yes I did indeed Pete - about Swiss Mapping……    I thought I'd replied, in fact, I'm nearly sure I replied but maybe on the forum rather than by PM.  I'll check when I'm on the computer - this phone is not the handiest gadget to wander around - or maybe I don't know how to wander around on it !!!

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I've bought used N gauge US outline locos and freight cars from RoS ebay shop and they've all been pretty good Peter.

I've also bought GF coaches from other ebay sellers but I'm a bit wary of buying locos, same as I was with 00 gauge really.

That said, plenty of people buy and sell older N gauge stuff all the time as some of it is out of production, such as Union Mills locos.

You could always try out some continental N gauge stuff, probably a greater second hand selection available where you are.


Ed



 
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I would sooner use a dedicated model railway source. 

Recent buying and selling has been through the Facebook Model Railway Buy, Sell & Swap group. If you use Paypal you have their usual protections as standard. It’s a well-run group and there is implied trust among fellow modellers. 

Facebook Marketplace is a much wider and Facebook-run part of the Zuckerberg Empire which includes model items. You might need to use broad search terms and skip through a lot of irrelevant items to find anything of use. 

Some of the large retailers also have good reliable N-gauge pre-owned stock. 

Shipping outside the UK can be an issue. If you can’t get it shipped directly maybe a UK member here could act as intermediary receiving and forwarding a package 

Rick
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Thanks for your input Ed and Rick.   :thumbs3:

I have in the past bought stock on e-bay - both successfully and disastrously !  For that reason, and like you Ed, I've avoided that source of late.  Living here in France adds yet another difficulty to the quest - even if sellers will ship to France, I suspect I'll buy VAT included, then have to pay VAT again here because they'll assume I didn't pay in UK plus a "handling charge", maybe duty and high postal charges.

The main sellers like RoS etc. have got this sorted (in the main) but I do face "handling and duty" or arrival in France plus the expected unpaid VAT.  That adds quite a chunk to the purchase price and, from what I've seen, these "main sellers" appear very expensive (when one conpares their sales price with what they buy from the poor "pre-owner" ….

I used to have stuff sent to friends and family in UK Rick but neither we nor our friends go there as often as they used to so having stuff brought over could take several months.  Having a UK based "intermediary" wouldn't actually save anything although it would open up the auction market to include those who won't ship overseas.

I did indeed consider continental outline and just buy here but prices over here seem eye-watering.  I'm actually amazed anyone can afford to buy new stuff.  If you think prices are high in UK, try over here or in Germany !!!

Maybe I'll just strip any useful electrics and bin the rest before I end up in the debtors prison …………………  I knew at the time, I ought not to have been interested in it  !!  :hand:

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I went into N-scale (for some reason called N-gauge in the UK) full time just over a year ago. Some 90% of my stock is second-hand, either from eBay or a number of other online sources. I also focused on diesel traction, for the simple reason it's easy to get at the innards, and there is not a lot that can go wrong. Older locomotives can sometimes be a challenge to convert to DCC, that said most diesels made in the last 20 years can be DCC'd, often with sound. Steam engines are actually easier to convert to DCC if they have a tender. New stock is often just as or more expensive than corrsponding HO/OO models.

My recent thread is detaining the conversion of what at first glace was a dead parrot that was never intended to have DCC or DCC sound. DCC is not complicated, DCC sound can be questionable. My investment so far in this is $20 for the locomotive, some TLC and wiring, and if I use a plain vanilla DCC decoder another $6. A sound decoder will be around $50-$110. A brand new BLI model is going to be around $250. Some 20 years ago I did the GWR in N-gauge, with some awful steam models from Dapol, GF, Union Mills and Ixion. Passenger carriages and freight trucks were fine, but even now I would hesitate converting a steam locomotve unless it had a tender.

Now I'm looking at those Gaugemaster LNER "Azuma" and GWR Hitachi Class 800 dual mode trains. Made by Kato and a real PITA to convert to DCC or DCC sound. Kato have their own ideas about DCC, and it doesn't follow what other manufacturers are doing. Dealer near where I live has a 9-car set with DCC sound going for $400. I can probably get him down to $350. Tempting. I use the LNER Azuma 3 times a year from London to Aberdeen, might as well have a model one I can run at club meets.

If you want to run with DC then personally I would go second-hand from DAPOL/GF and the like. DCC I would buy new locomotives decoder installed, second-hand passenger and freight stock. Beware of old AHM/Rivarossi locomotives. Those old controllers may look tempting, but you might want to check to see whether they have decent filtered PWM output. If they don't bin them. DCC stock will not like them.



 

©Nigel C. Phillips
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BCDR said

I went into N-scale (for some reason called N-gauge in the UK)



 

Wonder if it's something to do with British N gauge being 1:148 wheras most other parts of the world the scale is 1:160  :06confused_2:

Could even be because we were used to saying 00 gauge not 00 scale


 
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I think our use of scale/gauge is just another example of Brits insisting on being "different" ………………….:mutley

It's actually 2mm scale running on "N" Gauge track (in UK)  As has been stated at length, the difference between the UK "OO" gauge at 1/76 scale as opposed to the continental (and more correct) "HO" gauge at 1/87 was to do with the post war electric motor sizes when the scales became popular (mainly because post war houses were much smaller than their pre war counterpart.

If you assume each reduction is half it's bigger brother, then half of 1/76 is near enough 1/148 whilst half of 1/87 is not far off 1/160.  Again, one assumes motors had some bearing on what they could squeeze inside the body.

In UK it all went wrong with the introduction of 1/76 scale being "OO" Gauge, supposedly half as big as "O" Gauge - it should have been "Half O" or, as "foreigners" say "HO".

I'm amazed at the prices you pay in the States Nigel - a mere fraction of the prices over here.  A standard, non-sound decoder would be in the region of £20 (around $25) but I'm paying €125 ($130) for a blank sound decoder.  Admittedly, these are top of the range Zimo decoders but I don't think there's much to choose between any of the manufacturers.

"Ordinary" new "N" Gauge DC locos are in the order of £120 ($150) but continental outline from the likes of Fleischmann are costing around €230 ($240)  or more although they are exquisite models.  Naturally I couldn't mix Continental and UK outline because of the difference in scale.

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Sit down with a glass of something  and ask yourself some questions Peter

Why ? :- Is it to give yourself something to do in the warmth  of your abode in the winter months ? Rather than working out on the main layout ? Or just to try something  different.

Where ? :- Do you have a space for it Inside ? Or will it take up space out in the main layouts  home.

When :- Do you have the time to spend on a secondary layout project ? Or will it just be cutting into the already limited modelling time that you have for your main layout.

Cost :-   Can you justify the funds ( or put another  way) Are you happy diverting limited  funds from the main layout ?

Having said all that, there is one option I don't  think I saw mentioned. How about a bit  of OO9 ?  You could use the track and electrics you strip from the n guage boards and possibly create a small industrial or mining scene somewhere  on the main layout. You would only need 1 or 2 industrial locos and a few wagons, there are probably  donor n guage chassis that would give you a starting point and either scratch build the bodies using OO  wagons and loco bodies or look at what is available  in 3D print ?

I actually went the other way, O 16.5 as I wanted a bit of test track in the house to test, and run in any OO locos I acquired .3 points to trundle through,  giving 4 short spures to shunt, and some of the clip on rolling road thingies so I can test the running of a new or used engine. I then acquired some O 16.5 small engines and a few wagons dirt cheap so turned it into a rough diorama

Food for thought ?

Cheers

Matt


 

Wasnie me, a big boy did it and ran away

"Why did you volunteer ? I didn't Sir, the other three stepped backwards"
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All valid and useful points Matt - many thanks for your input.  :thumbs3:

It's the "why" that concerns me most - whilst I've always liked the ability to run scale length trains in an otherwise restricted space,  I've always considered "N" too small for me - eyes not good enough, hands and fingers way too big and, perhaps my biggest dislike, the fact that most "N" Gauge stock has ridiculously oversized flanges making the running gear look very toy-like in my eyes.  I think I saw the controllers as being a bargain and the layout bits thrown in for good luck.  The buildings on it do look excellent - a pity they're 2mm scale ………….

I think I'm trying to persuade myself that it's worth investing the time and money for the bits I like (mainly the buildings and scale space).  It's only a part of a larger layout, the rest of which is apparently still in UK but the guy is moving back  (another Brexit casualty) and wanted rid of the bits he had out here.

I'll investigate further in the cold light of day but am pretty sure that I'll simply sell on what I can and bin the remainder.  You're spot on in that doing anything with it would inevitably dilute effort on the main layout and that's moving way too slowly as it is ………………

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Petermac said

It's the "why" that concerns me most - whilst I've always liked the ability to run scale length trains in an otherwise restricted space,  I've always considered "N" too small for me - eyes not good enough, hands and fingers way too big and, perhaps my biggest dislike, the fact that most "N" Gauge stock has ridiculously oversized flanges making the running gear look very toy-like in my eyes.

After dabbling in Z gauge Peter, I found N positively large :rofl:

I've not found big hands and fingers too much of a problem and I'm sure Marty and Dorsetmike will agree that a head worn magnifier solves eye the problems where necessary.

The 'pizza cutter' oversize flanges on older stock used to put me off as well, but like 00 gauge, flanges are now much smaller and in general the models are far more detailed than they were.

The only way you will find out, is to purchase a few bits of rolling stock and if it's not what you want sell it all on along with the layout bits.


Ed

 
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If it's fairly complete and just needs something to run, then as Ed says get a few bits of rolling stock and give it a go. A quick fix so to speak, to give you something simple to ' run' while the main OO layout progresses. Treat it as a bit of a diorama with ' moving bits' rather than a fully stocked railroad.

Wasnie me, a big boy did it and ran away

"Why did you volunteer ? I didn't Sir, the other three stepped backwards"
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Get thee behind me Satan !!!!

I'm way too easily led up blind alleys.  Having looked at N gauge stuff, not only is it virtually the same price as OO stuff but there is also a choice of scales - go figure that one !!!  I can't mix UK and Continental outline.

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Petermac said

I can't mix UK and Continental outline.


Oh yes you can, rule 1 always applies :mutley


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HI Peter

I would agree with the idea that 009 is a nice diversion if the main layout gets all a bit too much.

L&BR laid out Dec 1 2023.jpg
This is the East Barset Light Railway - a Peco 009 starter set that grew like Topsy - me, a meglomaniac???  It is essentially, a loop around a 46in x 36in board with a siding for each train.  There are so many great manufacturers producing 3D printed and resin cast loco bodies for the bomb-proof Kato chassis (at about £50 per loco) that it's almost irresistable.  People like FourDees produce some exquisiste rolling stock too.  I am using this little layout for two purposes;
(a) because 009 has few rules, unlike Yarslow where I like things to be "proper", especially in the Operating Dept. and
(b) to practice and improve my skills at making buildings.  I have learned so much over the last few years but rely heavily on modified kits or unusual kits on my main layout.  It would be nice to be able to build nice cottages, a pub etc etc.  It will never be Pendon, but I will feel like I've achieved something.

Narrow gauge engine.JPG Narrow gauge train.JPG

Shed dweller, Softie Southerner and Meglomaniac
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Hi All,

Still alive and still kicking, layout still on hold while I finish the new house, sigh.

Yes, Optivisors or stand mounted magnifying glass/light combinations make working on N scale items easier. Unfortunately, despite paying good money for what looked like good quality items, both sets of head mounted magnifying glasses and lights I have purchased have fallen to bits with disappointing speed.
I am yet to research for a very high quality set. I am willing to spend a significant amount for something that I will not need to replace again in my lifetime because of their usefulness to the hobby (and other things, like returning the fiddly screw that holds the arm onto the frame of the wife's glasses!)

Peter,

I think that Barchester's Why, Where, When and cost comments are valid and probably the main practical drivers for your decision making purposes. Include How…. how well can you work in the scale without throwing things against the wall. Remember the 3 foot rule…. if you can't see the pizza cutter rims from 3 feet away then they don't exist.  If on the other hand you are going to expose your work via zoomed in digital camera to the rest of us on the internet (please) then you have another task to add to your to do list, replacing rolling stock wheel sets. Easy enough on wagon and coaching stock, something that I have respectfully declined to do on locomotives.

Which all need to be balanced against why you made the purchase in the first place. Is the dream in your minds eye so strong as to overide Barchester's practicalities?

I love the scale for the "railway in a landscape" in an area one quarter that of the OO/HO scales. I put up with the difficult handling because of it.

Good luck with your choice.

All the best to you all.

Marty
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Good to hear from you Marty, best of luck finishing the new house.



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You're all making vary valid points - similar to the deliberations I've been through endlessly over the last few days.

If I had unlimited time and funds to match, then I'd have a plethora of layouts in several scales, each for a different reason.

Alas, I'm no spring chicken and whilst I thought I'd amassed sufficient funds to see me through in luxury, inflation and an annoyingly bad investment have taken their toll…………..

Why did I buy the "section" of an N Gauge layout and a few controllers ?  I really don't have a sensible answer to that question - it just looked nice ……………….

If I do decide to do something in "N", it will definitely be DC rather than DCC so there won't be much micro-surgery involved so, with the help of a convex bit of plastic, I think I can manage whatever is necessary.

I'm happy continuing with my "OO Gauge" layout but yearn for longer length main line trains.  Those who have followed my efforts from the start will recall that, before we moved house, I had a large attic based layout on which I ran 6 or 7 coach trains with room to spare.  My train room is now a 20ft portakabin type office unit so long trains are out.

I hover between keep and sell - I've always been a bit of a "hoverer" - as I said earlier, each scale has its advantages but I'm not altogether sure my bank manager is as understanding as I'd like …………………………

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Still alive and still kicking, layout still on hold while I finish the new house, sigh.

As Peter says it's good to hear from you Marty.  Long time no see indeed!

I once swore I would never go smaller than OO.  That was when I had a vast layout with space and funds to support it.  Marty was among the privileged hundred or so visitors who saw that in person.  Tens of thousands have seen it online.

And then I took up a challenge from Tim Maddocks a/k/a Captain Kernow to build a lyout in Australia for a show in the UK.  That had to be in a smaller scale.  It became Boghouses which was built on N-gauge on two cork notice boards.  Those were placed end to end for operation but travelled in my airline bag folded in on top of each other.  The size - which was the largest I could get into the bag - meant I was pushing the limits of what N-gauge could do.  The curvature was extreme and the trains would only just cope.

A friend at that time ran a model railway shop in the Gippsland town of Stratford and was a Z-gauge modeller himself.  I visited a few times and was surprised at how effective such a tiny scale could be.  That, however, is not for me.  My fingers are large and struggle with small parts.  My eyesight remains sharp and the use of a magnifying angle-poise lamp (akin to the Optivisor Marty is fond of but floor-standing, not head-mounted) is very helpful.  Sharon has an Optivisor which I bought her when she started building small paper and card kits.  She got so far and hasn't gone back to the projects yet but maybe one day …..  In short an Optivisor is available if I want one.

So now instead of swearing I would never "go smaller" I instead swear at going smaller.   Especially when I drop a tiny piece of kit somewhere never to be seen again.  Or have difficulty persuading N-gauge joiners onto rails.  At least the fundamental electrics are "one sie fits all" meaning the controller and switches are not reduced to 1:148!!!

The cottage isn't big enough for anything in OO.  The current layout is follwed by some members here and uses N-scale track for both N-gauge and 00-9 gauge trains on two quite different themes.  Two layouts in one.

 

Rick
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