GWR OO Gauge - 1930's rural Somerset - Winter 1937

Westown-Heathfield - News from "The W-H Bunker"

 Week 3 - Update

It's been a busy week here at our place. On-line Club Bridge Duplicate sessions kept me occupied as did some super fine weather in mid Autumn for walks and many garden jobs. So, the end result has been very little time spent in the Railway room, and the little I did was mostly tidying up. There has been some planning and buying done on two fronts.

WC&P Railway - see previous post for initial comments

 I'm waiting on a management approval to post some background photos on this sub-project and meanwhile providing more info here is on hold. One lovely Birthday present last year from my 3 children and their families was a pre-ordered Rails / Dapol Stroudley A1X Terrier in WC&PR 1930s colours - "Portishead No. 4". For a photo etc. see

 https://railsofsheffield.com/products/39096/dapol-4s-010-008-oo-gauge-stroudley-terrier-a1x-class-wc-pr-lined-green-0-6-0-tank-locomotive-no-4-dcc-ready

Sadly this beautiful model was but one further victim of COVID, with delivery pushed back repeatedly and still uncertain 6 months on. Meanwhile…….

Westown Gas Works

Filling the WC&PR modelling gap, I was attracted to the popular Hornby Peckett 0-4-0 and figured something similar must have been shunting around the local gas works back in the day. W-s-M's gas works plant was located no more than 300m SE from the mainline station with a single spur line which crossed over the top of Drove Rd. I went on a school tour round the works once and still have vivid memories of a grime covered labourer by the glowing furnaces but don't recall details of rail traffic.

  The Peckett was my choice (Rule 1 applying) for my loco which I figure won't look out of place in the goods yard even if I can't squeeze in a suitable spur line:

 https://railsofsheffield.com/products/35927/hornby-r3679-oo-gauge-port-of-london-authority-peckett-w4-class-0-4-0st-no-74

now ordered and on its way.

Greetings Colin from a warm and sunny Loire Valley.

Good to hear you have had a busy week in these difficult times and also good to see another GWR modeller about to sport a W4 Peckett and what a jolly good price Rails are offering.

I don't think you'll be dissapointed. Mine is No 560 in Atlas Works factory leaf green livery and will be run on private industry sidings. I only ran it in on the rolling road yesterday and it is a tiny gem of a loco, packed with so much fine detail and beautifully finished.

I hope you receive positive news from the WC&PR governers soon and that the A1X finds its way safely onto your rails to cheer up your winter running.

Best,

Bill

Westown-Heathfield - Mid winter update

Today marks exactly one month of isolation for us here. We celebrated Easter remote from all the family but got in touch with them through the marvels of technology and a 2 metre separated rendezvous with the local "troupe" to drop off some garden produce, easter cake, bunnies and presents and pick up our groceries. The delight on my young assistants' faces (C&S) when they saw Grandma's cake defies words.

Meanwhile at Heathfield our winter setting has advanced in time to a bitterly cold frosty night with a full moon rising over the Quantocks, bathing the nearby slopes in an eerie light.




While over in Westown very little is happening at the deserted station.



These shots seem most fitting as an early wintry blast has arrived in Melbourne, limiting the comfortable time to work outside.

Stunning photos Colin - that first shot could almost be real.

Hope you have a good Easter - in spite of the lock-down.

Wonderful photos Colin.

Cheers
Evan

Hi Colin
Glad you are well and were able to spend time with some of the family over Easter.

The night time shots are spectacular. Peter is quite right…..they are totally realistic

Best wishes

John

Thank you gentlemen for your kind words, I was lucky to catch a perfect moment for the first photo.

LED lighting has been a great hit with the grandchildren who want a night running session whenever the timing is right. Having locos with firebox flicker adds to the effect with the footplate lighting up from the glow. I might even get to having the auto-coach fitted with internal lighting, the pickups are installed.

Colin

Westown-Heathfield - News from "The W-H Bunker"

  Week 5 - Update

There is light at the end of the tunnel down here in Oz.  Daily new COVID-19 case numbers have dropped well below 50, nationwide for our 25+million we "only" have 76 patients in ICU of which 40 are on ventilation. Any case of this severity is of course terrible for all those involved and related.
 The debate is shifting towards the gradual lifting of social distancing requirements. One step at a time, that's still at least 4 weeks away when we'll have a clearer understanding of community infection levels and transmissions.
 We have been greatly fortunate here thanks to a wide variety of factors; awareness, preparedness, acting promptly with common purpose and public support, each have played their part. It's not gone perfectly but given the circumstances it would be ungracious to complain. The economic aspects are nowhere near as optimistic and probably being underestimated.

Meanwhile in the Bunker I've turned my attention to matters WC&PR (for which see elsewhere) but am taking the first steps to experiment with adding custom wipers to my smaller 0-6-0 and 0-4-2 locos, hoping it will reduce my dependence on Stay Alives which have their limitations. Supplies of Phosphor Bronze wire, strip etc. have been secured so now I just need to get on with it!






 

Wow Colin, those Corona numbers are incredible.  I suppose, in addition to the rapid action by your government, being an island, albeit a big island, must have helped.

We all know that the only way anything can get to Australia (and New Zealand, for that matter) is if humans take it there.  Australia is a far more difficult place to get into than the UK so I'd guess your numbers are easier to control.

Europe is reeling almost everywhere except Germany where they seem to have been able to keep it under control.  The human cost of this virus have been, and are continuing to be, horrendous but, as you so rightly say, once it's all over, the economic cost to the world will make the 2008 crash seem like a minor hiccup.  We will however, have learnt what is important and what isn't …………….at least I hope we will have !  :hmm

 The silver lining is that we've all had more time to spend on our model railways.  :cheers

I'm interested in your comment about reliance on stay-alives.  I'm seriously considering going down that route to aboid having to change dead frog pooints for live frogs ………………… what problems have you experienced ?

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

Wow Colin, those Corona numbers are incredible.  I suppose, in addition to the rapid action by your government, being an island, albeit a big island, must have helped.

We all know that the only way anything can get to Australia (and New Zealand, for that matter) is if humans take it there.  Australia is a far more difficult place to get into than the UK so I'd guess your numbers are easier to control.

The factors are diverse but two things focused the minds of Govt at Federal and State Levels and the Health community:

1. SARS and other epidemics - being much nearer the source, the impact of those was significant and consequently many initiatives such as Pandemic Response Plans were already in place, then quickly activated in early 2020.
2. Education as an important part of the economy - the prospect of tens of thousands of returning O/S students, especially those from The Middle Kingdom rang early alarm bells and drove early action.
   

On the Debit side, somewhere > 10% of all cases here and ~33% of our Deaths came from one now infamous Cruise Liner "The Ruby Princess" which was permitted to disembark its passengers with many undisclosed infections on board. It is now a major police case but fortunately does not seem to have had led to widespread knock on effects beyond the unfortunate primary ones.



Peter: Regarding Stay Alives I'll get back later on this issue
 

Colin

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

The silver lining is that we've all had more time to spend on our model railways.  :cheers

I'm interested in your comment about reliance on stay-alives.  I'm seriously considering going down that route to avoid having to change dead frog points for live frogs ………………… what problems have you experienced ?

Peter,

With no prospect of changing my dead frogs we are in the same boat. Regarding issues faced they are twofold with RTR locos fitted with wheel wiper pickups,

1. some small wheelbase locos do not run well over dead frogs because of the point geometry or other loco specific issues
   
   
2. When using Sound Chips, momentary power interruptions can reset the sound program even if the loco's motion is only briefly affected and it continues moving. This is the reason why YouChoos (my DCC Sound supplier) highly recommends fitting a SA however good a runner is the loco.

This leaves just issue #1 to comment on and I've had my share of issues with both 0-6-0 and 0-4-2 locos on W-H and even a 2-6-2 small Prairie which is effectively an 0-6-0 for connectivity purposes.

In theory, IF all wipers are working well there should always be connectivity over even the longest dead section of a dead frog (~30mm for a double curved point). In practice an 0-6-0 with the front two axles 29mm apart (e.g. Class 57xx) can find 2 wheels on the same side over dead spots, leaving all the pickup work to be done by the trailing wheel on that side. Several factors can influence how well this one wheel performs, track levelness, loco COG, rigid or floating chassis, side-wards motion in a curve etc can all impact on that one critical wheel's ability to maintain contact.

I've looked at this in detail (the scientist in me!) because I had one lovely Bachmann small Prairie that whatever I did re cleanliness had ongoing problems in my curved points that all other Bachmann 0-6-0s sailed thru no probs. With 4 double curved points comprising the inner to outer loop crossovers I have a fertile field for problems and 4575's was a doozy. In the end I concluded that at some specific spots the front of the chassis dipped slightly into the frog, just enough to lift the crucial rear back wheel up by no more than 0.12mm, the thickness of a sheet of 100gsm paper. Nothing I could do would fix this issue. (a SA would have done but didn't know about them at the time).

Other locos which have shown the same issue for me were a few simple Hornby rigid chassis 0-6-0s but my Class 2721 (#2779) does run very well.

Finally there's the Class 48xx 0-4-2 where Hornby had the "brilliant" idea of adding traction tyres to the middle axle wheels when the rear small axle is already far from ideal as a source of track contact. Needless to say this is the worst of all but even then, adding a 4400uF SA gives acceptable running.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that "back of wheel" wipers are far from ideal on some chassis designs and am moving to add the sorts of wipers kit builders use. This will be covered here shortly so watch this space!

Regards,

Colin

Thanks for this Colin - exactly the sort of problems I have experienced in the past and, like you, the option of changing the dead frog points for live, whilst there, is not something I'd relish doing - to say nothing of the cost.

When I bought this unit, it had a working layout installed.  Half of that has now been replaced with a section that will ultimately, be hidden from view.  The remaing half has so many points that replacing them would make me question why I bought the unti in the first place !!

"The scientist in you" suggests you're used to working with micrometers and milligram weights - I wonder how my skills with big strides and Kango hammers might be useful in fitting SA to the few recalcitrant locomotives I posess ……………………… :hmm.

I'll follow with interest …………….

Hi Colin,

If you are contemplating plungers they have their own set of problems. Especially with models which do not have a frame chassis. You can always go old school and have the wiper on the tread. 

Your comment on the frog is interesting. DIY turnout builders routinely put a slight slope on the nose of the frog to compensate for the wheels dipping in the gap between the closure rails and the frog. Old well used RTR points will have wear of the plastic between the closure rails and frog that will also cause a dip. I have noticed that recent Peco points have a very sharp nose to the frog. Judiciously round that off by around a mm gives better running.

Many Bachmann X-6-X chassis are compensated with springs inset in the block bearing on one of the axles.

The cure for the Hornby is a set of wheels from Ultrascale. No rubber bands. Adding some weight to the rear bogie helps. 

Modern diesel designs and some Bachmann steam designs use split axles. There the wheel can be live. Connectivity is much more assured. Another set of problems though. 

The gauge on many RTR models can be way off. Always a good idea to check.

Nigel

[user=1632]BCDR[/user] wrote:

Hi Colin,

If you are contemplating plungers they have their own set of problems. Especially with models which do not have a frame chassis. You can always go old school and have the wiper on the tread…..

Nigel

Thanks Nigel,

Plungers? Totally agree, they're right out!


Old school, That's my plan to give it a try on a test loco, my class 2721 as I've had some very helpful guidance about how to go about it, I'll be reporting shortly.


Colin

Hi Colin,

It works well, but you really need P/B rod or strip, not brass.Given that most treads are beveled not flat, rod is probably a better choice than strip. If you get it right, you can elongate the axle hole vertically, and use the pickup as a spring to give a bit of compensation. Big if though. I did try doing them vertically and adding a dummy brake shoe. It will wear a grove in the tread after a lot of use.
 .


Nigel

[user=1632]BCDR[/user] wrote:

Hi Colin,

It works well, but you really need P/B rod or strip, not brass.Given that most treads are beveled not flat, rod is probably a better choice than strip. If you get it right, you can elongate the axle hole vertically, and use the pickup as a spring to give a bit of compensation. Big if though. I did try doing them vertically and adding a dummy brake shoe. It will wear a grove in the tread after a lot of use.

Nigel

Hi Nigel,


The Brass rod I might have mentioned is for detailing coaches and the loco. PB wire for wipers already in stock!

Have you a photo of what you mean about the installation you refer to?


 The approach I've been told about is that favoured by an expert kit builder, Tony Wright. Can't post a photo because it's not mine to put up but it involves coming up to the wheel edges rather than along the tread.

Colin

Hi Colin

Sorry no photo - pre YMRC days when I was new to the hobby and still experimenting (haven't stopped actually). It was when I was comparing horizontal on the top versus vertical on the side. I used a bit of brass filed to shape for the shoe with the P/B soldered inside. Bit too fiddly in the end for me, I ended up using plungers.

Watch the diameter of the P/B - I use 20 thou (of an inch). I did find with an 0-4-0 it was best to have one wire for both wheels and pivot in the middle. It of course needs a spacer of some sort as the wires need to be facing inwards slightly so they bear on the flange and the tread.

Nigel

Project - "New Wipers"

(1) Trials with Hornby 2779

The plan is to fit new wheel wipers to all my small wheelbase locos with known issues at slow running speed. This is even if the fitting of a Stay Alive (SA) has mostly overcome issues of traversing my long insulfrog points as discussed earlier. The reasons are:

Even with a SA fitted, basic limitations of behind the wheel wipers remain.

1. Hard to clean, often needing body shell removal.
2. Fluff gathers easily between the spot contact and wheel.
   
3. Easily damaged in some loco chassis designs if you need to remove the sole plate.
4. Any limited tension in the wiper can cause loss of contact in curves when the axle moves fully to the side away from the wiper.
   
5. If the loco stalls at slow speed due to point #4, the SA reserve has been used up and the Maradonna HOG solution is needed

Loco 2779 is my test bed. Out of the box it was a respectable runner except at slow speed over those long frogs. Fitting a SA mostly fixed this except that the loco would still stall in point curves at very slow speed as per #4,5 above.

My base starting position shows that 2779 with 2200uF SA fitted is a good runner at very low speed:

  [yt]DTvQABnsCh8[/yt]

except when I confess that in one other run it stalled when the back two axles were both in the dead zone and contact between front right wheel and its wiper was lost. This confirmed when a HOG sideways push to the inside of the curve got it moving. 

If I could get that kind of running over points Colin, I wouldn't bother with extra wipers !!  Fantastic.  :thumbs

And I see it's a dead frog point too - wow !!!

Project - "New Wipers"

(2) Plans and early efforts

My first step was to plan where these pickups and the connections to the loco's other +/- inputs should be located. That proved to be a wise move as it immediately identified a few obstacles to a straightforward "just bash the wipers in" approach. Most notably the faux leaf springs fixed to the sole plate behind each wheel. They can't be seen, why bother in the first place? My first reaction was to cut them off but after taking a photo and creating a schematic I could see the wiper wire should sit between the spring and the wheel easily. This composite photo shows the plan and below the first wiper pair installed along with the power lead off-takes. The crucial design factor is a double bend in the wires between the pickup plate and wheel edge. The first should be between axle and the plate, the second about half way between axle and wheel edge. (In the diagram I drew the first bends too far from the plate)



Also my diagram had the (+) wiring on the wrong side but otherwise the general plan is now off and running.

With one wiper pair in place but not powered I did a quick run and all went well. It's easy to test and also to see the edge wipers stay in firm contact over the full lateral travel of the axles. There is hope this will all work out!

As suggested by my friendly source and advisor Al, the best way to fit the small brass mounting plates is to gently heat melt them into the keeper plate. Oh! There goes my "warranty"  :???:

PS: This was changed later to screwing down brass strips and if possible into the connecting strips on the other side of the keeper plate
 

Colin