Hello and a big thank you for everyone's Input from my previous questions, they have been very helpful. Now another conundrum, could anyone please help as I'm unsure whether to go dcc or stay traditional and go analogue?Once again thank you. 

David, that question is almost like asking - "how long is that piece of string?"

Some questions for you first so we can get an idea of how to answer you
1. One loco only at a time?
2. one operator only  ?
3. How much do you know about analogue or DCC ?
4. size of layout
5. do you want to have loco lights on all the time.
6. do you want loco sound?

there maybe more questions after you post some answers.

Well my answer to that would be probably contentious.

If your a person that prefers old technology like typewriters only landline phones and slide rules go DC analogue.

If your a person happily uses newer technology then go DCC.


Brian

They both are great. I think the key feature, is whether you want lights on the locos all the time, of just when they are moving. As well as sound etc as Sol said!

Hi BOx

As a dyed-in-the-wool analogue user you would expect me to champion that cause, but actually if I were starting again and did not have a huge loco fleet to convert, I would go DCC.

By careful tracklayling and ensuring that each track piece is fed from a power source, analogue for control is, in my opinion, just as good.  I use Gaugemaster Feedback controllers which are very good for a whole range of motors.  Some of the DCC controllers I have played with at club open days and the like are no better for running, starting and shunting.

That said, there are DCC controler and there are DCC controllers.  The guys on here will tell you which they think are superior and why.

The big advantage for me would be the lights, coach lighting, sound etc etc.  On your own layout, these can add real atmosphere (although I appreciate the issues of using it all in an exhibition hall).

With DCC you also get the option of computer control - check out Granby Junction - and that is whole new can of techno-worms!!  As a bit of a ludite, I give that one a wide berth but HEY!, its your train set as they say.

Whatever you choose, if you have tapped into all the opinions on here, it will be the right answer.

Barry

When I was using DC, like Barry, I had good controllers that worked just as well as DCC IMO.
Now to me, the big advantage I find with DCC, is the ability to have as I do in my layout, multiple operators working in my main station at the same time & not needing fancy connections between tracks & controllers to so under analogue. Loco lights & sounds - I am not that interested in.

Hi David,

DCC. I would not call it a new technoligy, it has been around since 1996; digital packet control on an AC carrier has been around a lot longer. DCC drives the motor using pulse width modulation DC, the track current is half phase AC. The decoder does the conversion.

A good pulse width modulator DC controller will do pretty much the same as a DCC  
controller when it comes to motor control. Good in this case = £££. Once you start having more than one locomotive on the same track is when the fun starts. And you will need to get into block control. Which is just like the real thing.

Sound, lights, bells ,whistles are possible with DC, but expensive. MRC and Kato have systems for this.

Big advantage of DCC is that it is a standard system. Decoders from one manufacturer will work with a controller from another.

Worthwhile doing some reading on this before investing in the system. I have both, but the DC one is for testing DC locomotives before conversion to DCC. Like all things, you get what you pay for. 

Nigel

As a newbie modeller - my last attempt was as a schoolboy with a Hornby trainset with a power controller that ran off a huge battery, until I saved up for a mains controller. (Does anyone else remember those things?  They had springs on the top for contacts as I remember…) - I did a couple of small planks to practise things and they were DC.  But for Faversham Creek I went DCC.  It has been a learning curve, but not as big as I expected.  I had (have) very little rolling stock so it has been easy to go DCC without adding huge cost or work to converting DC locos.

New things are coming out for DCC all the time and costs can certainly mount, so that might be a consideration. I'm not interested in sound, but lights are a requirement, although train-tech do an alternative coach lighting system for DC if you choose to go that way.

I read and read all I could before I made the decision - and most of it I didn't really need to know to get started - so you can run trains and slowly build up your knowledge and skills as you go along.

I must admit I am a real fan of DCC Concepts equipment.  Again, it all comes at a cost, but I have their digital points, controlled by levers and a mimic panel using their system and for both it is a genuine case of just two wires needed to get it all working perfectly.  I change the points with a lever, they change, the mimic panel reflects the change and the ground signals change too.  The wiring is as simple as can be and I can add more as the layout develops with no extra wiring.  For me, that has been a real game changer.

And finally, the actual system you choose will probably shape what you think of DCC more than anything else, so ask as many questions as you can think of to help you.  Most will say try to use some - that wasn't possible for me so I just researched as much as I could and took a bit of a leap In the dark with a system which I think I am unique in using at YMRC!

Good luck with your choice!

Michael

Hi,

My feeling with DCC after having had 2 DC layouts is, once bitten you'll never turn back. however the caveats expressed above about comfort level with technology are highly relevant.

With single loco operation it's probably a toss up, but even on my small layout the ease of wiring plus the ability for my grandchildren (6-9yrs) to operate two locomotives at the same time (safely) shows both the potential and ease of DCC use.

Sound, once you get into it adds a whole new dimension of reality that I've recently taken to. The future is DCC, much as music advanced from vinyl thru CDs and DVDs to today's device or Cloud storage. Some folk still love their 33s with good reason but modern music lovers these days would see them as museum pieces!

Colin

Hi David,

Michael's point in choosing a system is very important. Do your research here in depth. 

Same goes for decoders, whether sound or not. This is when you need to make some decisions regarding how many locomotives you will invest in. Two or three sound-equipped locomotives is not too bad, thirty is a different story. 

Plus you need to consider the number of locomotives the system will support. Running 2-3 locomotives at once will need significantly less power than running 5-10. Adding on DCC accessories will up the power you need.

My needs are simple, usually 2-3 locomotives. A 2-amp system is fine. Anything more and you need 5-10 amps.

You might want to consider whether you go with a hybrid system of DCC for the trains, and DC for points and accessories, or a 100% DCC system as Michael describes. Decoder costs and power requirements soon mount up.

DCC is no more (or no less) complicated than DC. Make a list of what you want in the layout, then you can check out what is available.

Nigel

Hello Ron, thanks for your response, unsure about loco numbers, there will be only one operator and layout size will probably be U shaped so 7' x 4' x11'x4' x6'x4' sound and lights that would be awesome. 

Thank you Brian, I'm a bit of a caveman when it comes to technology, however I think that it is always a good thing to try and keep up with new ideas.

Thanks Nigel, yes I think I need to do some research. 

Thank you Michael, indeed I think I better get on with some serious research. 

Hi Colin, many thanks for you're advice, I certainly need some more reading material before I decide. 

If you, decide to go down the DCC route, check out the Sign-Trak Ace controller.  It rarely gets a mention (although I have seen it in recent model magazines).  It's a small UK company, but NMRA compliant and a very simple and visual system.  It's the one I chose and I've been delighted with it.  Small companies present a problem, so  that is a concern.  

Others will have their favourites, so ask away

Michael

the website for the DCC system Michael mentioned
🏠 Home - Sig-naTrak® by GFB Designs

If it is going to be a one-engine-in-steam model, and lights and sound are not an issue, DC analogue will be easier.

There are many advantages to DCC, besides sound and lights remaining on all the time there is power. If there is an engine shed or siding where multiple locomotives or units are going to be parked/stored, with DC you will need isolating sections as long as the longest item, whereas with DCC, you can park locos and units buffer to buffer under full control. Thinks of say a BR 9F 2-10-0 with its tender, parking on the same line as a small 0-6-0T shunter (perhaps a Terrier or Hatton's P class), and the amount of lost space on DC with that combination.

Another consideration may be the types of trains to be run. American layouts tend to have diesels in multiple, but even in my own case, I run several Southern Railway/Region EMUs in multiple. DCC's consisting functions allow much better control, and, with a lot of fiddling, the ability to fine-tune and speed match items that will run together.

Personally, I went DCC a long time ago, adding it experimentally at first to one of the positions on my old layout on the branch line - the DC system used 'cab control', where each track section could be switched to any of the controllers, so slotting in a DCC system to one of those cab positions allowed every section to be switched to DCC at will. I had to be very careful not to let DC and DCC meet, of course.

Because the track voltage is nearly constant with DCC, slow running can be more reliable. I was asked the question at a recent meeting as to whether DC could provide just as fine control over a loco we were demonstrating creeping along: the answer was "Yes, with a good controller", but the proviso was that the track, wheels and pickups have to be even more scrupulously clean with DC to allow this because of the low voltages involved.

As to choosing systems, there are many good systems: for the starter systems that can be built on with no redundancy of components, Digitrax, NCE and Lenz come immediately to mind, there may be others as well. I went for NCE on the grounds of ease of use and the good ergonomics of the hand-held controllers, but if you prefer a console unit, Digitrax Zephyr versions may be better. Lenz and Gaugemaster (actually an MRC unit) also have their adherents. Ideally, you should try out a few different systems on other peoples' layouts, or at clubs or even in the shops if they have a test setup available.

Incidentally, I am keeping my point control analogue, using the probe and stud method in a track diagram.

As Ron (Sol) said: "How long is that piece of string?" With DC or DCC there will be some compromises. It is up to you what you will accept and what you won't tolerate, and how much you are prepared to spend.

As a couple of others have said, once you try DCC, though, it is very hard to go back to plain DC. I also agree that if starting out freshly, DCC is probably the way to go, building the layout accordingly.

Little more to be said after Jeff (SRMan's) excellent post and summary.


From my experience, choice of Controller was the big decision given the cost; after purchase support and personal preference for style and range of required features should be the drivers. IMO it'll be money well spent getting this one aspect of DCC right up front. The rest will follow.



Colin

Hi David,

Old analog vs new analog and DCC. I just realized some of the terms used may be new to you. Old DC uses a straight forward increase in voltage to control the motor. Electric motors will not turn unless there is enough voltage. Depending on the design and age the motors used for OO scale will range from 3-5 volts. Once going it tends to be at a relatively high speed. Think Scalectric cars. Voltage controllers are cheap to make.

Pulse width modulation (PWM) puts a constant voltage into the motor using a series of pulses of around 12 volts, the speed of the motor depends on the duration of the pulses. Fast speed, long duration, slow speed, short duration. This varies the average voltage the motor gets, but overcomes inertia at "low" voltages. Controller designers aim to make the pulse as sharp as possible. Unfortunately some inexpensive analog PWM controllers do not do this. Many analog designs also increase the base voltage as the speed is increased. There are online reviews on this. The design is not new, Roger Amos in "Model Railway Electronics" has one dating to 1990.

DCC does the same thing, the motor is still driven by 12 volt PWM. And cheap decoders can suffer from the same design issues. This is why a good PWM analog controller will be able to move a locomotive at prototypical slow speed. PWM does mitigate against poor motor design such as 3 pole straight cut armature ones, where low voltage control is poor. DCC even makes a ringfield motor look good as the start "voltage" can be adjusted so there is no lag..

A good analog PWM controller is expensive, around £100 with transformer. For comparison a NCE 2 amp Powercab system is around £150. Good for 2-3 engines running at the same time. I have used this system for the past 12 years. Gaugemaster's base Prodigy system is £200.(This is a rebranded MRC system from the US).

On a small layout with one or two operators a base system is usually fine. If the layout grows adding more power and controllers is all that is required. If you go DCC make sure that the system can be expanded and that can access as many decoder functions as possible (+20 is normal these days).

Nigel