I've had a yearning to have a bash at some signal construction for some time.

Reading about the subject, this book by Mick Nicholson comes highly recommended :





It's currently out of print but I bought this, like new, copy from Norman Wisenden Books.

Geoff R, still a member of this parish although no longer posting, has an extensive, detailed thread on another, very well known, forum where he builds and motorises a MSE kit and I intend to learn from him ………….

All I need to do now is buy my kit and get on with it although, until late autumn, I won't have much spare time.

I've had a MSE kit on a shelf for ages Peter.  Got the books too.  There seems to be a fair bit of info on the signal itself, but the actuation side seems murky.  I don't fancy wire in tube.

A friend of mine has a couple of Dapol signals.  They look reasonable and work but make a heck of a noise and don't behave prototypically.

I don't think Ratio signals with plastic posts are man enough to withstand actuation.

Having working signals is a requirement for my new layout.

John

I don't have the book but do have some idea, approaching a working knowledge, of signal construction and operation.

I also have experience of Ratio and Dapol signals.

Ratio kits are fussy to built in my opinion and the "give" in the rather average quality plastic does not support actuation by the included levers even if one could get the assembly together as suggested.  I suspect that much alone would defeat better modellers than I am.

They can be made to look acceptable in posed positions however and those with arms on metal spigots can be assembled such that the arms can be posed and the pose changed by hand.  Some of their kits have arms which can only be stuck on - these kits also do not offer the control lever assembly and thread for operation.

My experience with Dapol signals has been recorded elsewhere.  These come ready to plant on your layout and require four wires to be connected.  Two are the power supply (16Vac) and two are the actuation wires which ideally need to be run back to a push-to-make switch although I use Peco PL26 levers successfully.

Of six signals purchased only four actually work though a fifth did so when tested out of the pack and before fitting.  Other modellers have reported similar success rates.  They make a loud and extended buzzing sound when in operation which is handy in that the operator knows power is being fed to the motor but annoying because it is unprototypical and intrusive.  

The arms move slowly but not as freely as I would like.  They appear to be geared in the motor unit with the gear notches visible as slight jerks when the arm changes position.  The green lens is too green; BR ones were almost blue.  The red is a brighter and paler red than it should be.

These are not kits.  They are ready-built working semaphore signals.  You can probably get better ones at a price but I'm a little annoyed that for £22 apiece I only have two-thirds of them doing what they say on the pack.

Rick, your experience sounds much like mine - relieved to hear that.

I would agree that a Ratio signal might best be used for something like a fixed distant.

John

Thanks for the input chaps. :thumbs

I quite like the appearance of the Ratio signals but, as you say, operating them is maybe a step too far - they're just too flimsy for that.

My plan is to operate the MSE signals via the Megapoints system:  http://megapointscontrollers.com/megapoints/

If you watch the video showing signal operation, the "bounce" is wonderful.  It was watching the operation of signals at a show that made me open my wallet.  It's not a particularly cheap system at initial outlay time (I bought the £198 "Starter" kit), but is very versatile and can be constantly added to.

Thanks for the link Peter, bookmarked.  What will you use to drive the signal?

John

I'm going to use mini servos John.

Like the two white chappies shown here with the Mega Points starter kit.  Bought from the States for around £1.30 each.  The duty almost doubled the price !!!

OK, I'm not quite ready to do signals yet so I'll let you blaze the trail. :pedal

John

Looking forward to this Peter. :thumbs

Terry

Don't hold your breath Terry ………….it will probably take me 6 months to find my soldering iron ………..:cheers

I plan to start it next month or it might even be October - too busy until then plus, I still have to gather up some more bits………..;-)

Having found my soldering iron, I'm now listing materials I'll need - apart from, of course, the kit itself.

I've never worked in brass but have a few different solders, the necessary fibre glass pencil to clean the brass and now I've got to the "paints" list …………

With plastics, one washes them in "wet" water before painting.  What do you do with brass and, having prepped it for painting, which primer should I use ?  Bear in mind, I live in France so many of the US products are not available this side of the pond.  I think I'll use acrylics for the top coats - unless someone says enamels are better on brass ……………….:roll::roll::roll:

Peter, for a signal, given the parts are small, you shouldn't need a lot of power in your iron.  The tip should be clean though.

I've gone off acid flux and now prefer the more benign stuff.  Acid flux (like Carrs Green from C&L) will eat up your bit over time, plus the fumes get up your nose.  I believe DCC Concepts do a range of soldering supplies.  Gaugemaster carries them last time I looked.  I'm currently using some bought locally called "Tix".  I have found that, whatever flux you use, it works well on all solder including low melt (70C), which you should not need for this job.

You should have 145C and 188C solders in your arsenal.  If you have to solder on to something that you've soldered already start with 188 and then 145 - this way there's less chance of the whole thing floating away on molten solder.

I can't abide lead free solder.  I recently bought some proper stuff from C&L which works very well.

I've got into the habit of cutting off very small bits of solder and picking it up with my iron to apply to the work. (If your iron won't pick it up, the bit is either dirty or hopelessly oxidized). This permits good control of quantity.  It's very easy to get an enormous blob of solder on the work.

I find fiber pens very useful for cleanup.  I've got a fine and broad one.  The fibers tend to go all over the place and can lodge in your skin - irritating.  I got mine and refills from Eileens Emporium.

Kits can be challenging to fit small parts.  Leave parts on the fret until you need them.  Sometimes it requires you to grit your teeth while you hold the part.  A fingernail is not as sensitive as skin.

Clean any tarnish off the brass, apply flux and pick up your solder.  The joint should make in a trice.

For fixing some details, I use CA.  A good idea to do all the soldering first before the glue.  High heat will fume the CA - not pleasant.

The work should be cleaned periodically - I use window cleaner.  An old toothbrush can be useful for scrubbing - just be careful not to knock any parts off.  Just before painting it can be beneficial to give the piece a bath in weak acetic acid (white vinegar) to clean any crud from the crevices.  Probably best to keep the stuff you use for the model separate from that used for your chips.

For painting, I use hardware store primer.  I have some grey primer that is formulated for metal, so you should be able to find that - even the French have to paint metal.  Leave the primer to cure overnight and then paint on whatever you like.  I tend to favour acrylic too.

If I forgot anything, let me know.

John

Halford's Grey Primer is what I use on metal kits, and they do a plastic primer for plastic kits but it works just as well on metal ones to, although they recommend acrylic paints for that. The ordinary one will do any paints.

Thanks guys - particularly  John for a very comprehensive answer. :thumbs

Halfords primer, or at least their French version, I can get Mick so will give that a try.  I haven't got the signal kit yet but can guess some of the parts will be very small.  A soak in vinegar is a good point - I had visions of my scrubbing all my badly soldered bits off under a running tap and watching them disappear down the plug !!!!

This is going to be a ride and a half for me …………………………..hmm:hmm

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote: 

I had visions of my scrubbing all my badly soldered bits off under a running tap and watching them disappear down the plug !!!!

I've done that - a bit disheartening, get a strainer.

John

It's on my list ………………..;-)

Hi Petermac           I am with you there?? but it did seem like a good idea, when I purchased my "Etched Brass Semaphore Signal",and that was 18 months ago and it is still in the envelope that it came in. It is the "Bending Bars" or lack of that is holding up progress??I hope that you have better luck with your signal.            all the best  Kevin

Bending bars??- I've never found the need for such things.  I've used clamps and a big ol' file to bend coach sides.  A set of pliers will do most bending.

John

[user=1235]60019Bittern[/user] wrote:

Halford's Grey Primer is what I use on metal kits, and they do a plastic primer for plastic kits but it works just as well on metal ones to, although they recommend acrylic paints for that. The ordinary one will do any paints.

Hullo Peter,

I have found that the 'Dupli-colour' grey primer aerosol [appret anti-rouille] that I an buy locally in the large supermarkets with a car accessory section is a perfect alternative to Halford's paint, and can be misted on very finely from a distance so as to dry almost on contact. It has worked for me on card, plastic, aluminium and brass.

As an airbrush owner you may consider Vallejo Surface Primer, an acrylic polyurethane paint whiuch states it is suitable for all the above plus resin. I ordered mine fom Amazon UK as it was cheaper to order a 200ml bottle from UK than it was to order a 100ml from Amazon Fr.

Doug


PS I am almost at the 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours…' stage [air brushed thing…]

D

Hi John.  Thank you, I was looking at a "Site" on Etched Brass Kits, and Bending Bars were mentioned. Being a newbie, this time around, it seemed like a good idea and would give nice straight lines and crisp clean edges.     all the best. Kevin