Blood and Custard?

Hi All.  I keep asking about Hornby, that is asking not complaining. And I have read a lot about Modellers concerns on Diagrams not matching the Hornby models but that does not worry me too much. I do have a livery question though “ “ Blood and Custard “ or Crimson Lake and Cream which ever you prefer. Did Hornby ever do a mk1 stock with this livery and how near was it to the Prototype. I have just read about Crimson and Lake being used on corridor coaches and plain Crimson on suburban coaches, did Hornby build them to scale or diagrams?  Best wishes Kevin 

Hornby have done Mk 1's in CL&C ever since Hornby Duplo days. As well as the all-maroon suburban versions. Bachmann also do these. Have a peruse of Hattons. Anybody on a budget goes for the old Mainline versions. Replica Railways do some nice versions as well.

Close to the prototype diagrams and to scale? In both cases yes. Bachmann seems to lead in detailing, the latest Hornby ones seem to be in the railroad range with molded details. Gangways need improving on both due to the "toy-train" distances between the coaches. One interesting feature of the early Mk 1 coaches were the buckeye couplers at either end, in addition to the regular chain link. Good argument for using close-coupled Kadee coupers and some gangways that actually touch and compress/expand.

Some research on the web will get plenty of commentary on the positives and negatives of the many Mk 1 models.

Nigel

Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply. I was looking for, I don’t know why? either two or three coaches to form a train. At least a brake 2nd and a Composite or WHY. to run with my M7 or my Terrier, blood and Custard being preferred.
Best wishes Kevin 

Hi Nigel.  I stand corrected, as you pointed out, “ All maroon suburban “ if that is what BR ( S ) or Southern or whatever the correct livery is?   Best wishes Kevin 

I have the Bachmann version. They come with a close link which is disguised as cabling which bring the carriages together nicely. The quality of them is brilliant, a lot better than I was use to with my old 90s stock!

I agree with Chris the Bachmann Mk 1 coaches are very good i have a lot of them in different livery's.
You need to decide exactly what you want and see if the particular ones you want are available at the moment.

Brian

Hi Chris. Thank you for your reply. You got me there, “ old 90’s stock “ ? I am unfamiliar with the term, are they Loco hauled stock? or what.  Best wishes Kevin 

He means model coaches that were produced back in the ninety`s and before Kevin

Brian

Hi Brian. Thank you for your reply. “ As it says on the tin “, two or three suburban coaches including a 2 nd  brake and a composite that will run with either a M 7 or a Terrier somewhere on the Southern or BR ( S ) South Eastern Division.Best wishes Kevin 

I would do some research here Kevin. The GWR suburban services in the 1950's and 1960's got relivered 1930's and 1940's stock. I have a picture somewhere of a 57 class pannier  tank engine hauling a Collett 1930's coach in cream and maroon, along with a Hawsworth post-1947 brake composite also in cream and maroon, followed by a two coach compartment B set in maroon. That was around 1960. It wasn't all suburban maroon.

I believe this was common in other BR regions. Those Mark 1's were for mainline services.


Nigel

Hi Nigel.  Thank you. I have just remembered the at a club meeting, former club, and well into BR days there were Carriages running around with pre nationalisation livery. Especially on Branch lines. Best wishes Kevin 

Hi Nigel. Yet another reply. At that time when many carriages were being rebuilt, rebranded, and running in formation Did it matter if they were Maunsells, Colletts or any other design ? Best wishes Kevin 

Bachmann Mk1 coaches have more detail, look better and run better - the latter because of their pin-point bearing metal wheels compared with Hornby's plastic ones.  Hornby coaches are cheaper however.

There was quite a mix of liveries between Nationalisation and the corporate maroon era (green on Southern).  "Blood and Custard" is the same as "Crimson Lake and Cream" the former being a mildly disrespectful term applied to the latter as the official description.  

Southern Region stock was mostly green though where suburban steam-hauled coaches were in use they might be crimson or green but never with cream; suburban coaches were one colour.  There were differing shades of green and crimson and even some brighter red coaches.  The Western Region continued with its own version of GWR chocolate and cream of course though also used blood and custard stock.

I recall there being a very colourful period in the late 60s / early 70s when maroon coaching stock was still quite common, blue-grey was the new thing and suburban units or DMUs were plain green or plain blue.  But green coaches occasionally turned up as, for example, in the Brighton - Plymouth train which for at least one year was formed with a mix of green, maroon and blue/grey coaches behind either a green or blue diesel or, in winter until 1966, steam.  

The same would have occurred not many years earlier when blood & custard, chocolate & cream and BR maroon were all about together along with crimson suburbans.  BR Mk.1-derived short-frame suburban stock ran in lined maroon then plain blue just to fudge the issue a bit more!

The motto being - run what you want, there was probably a prototype for it. I know on the GWR/WR coaches with GWR livery from pregrouping days (pre-1922) could be found in backwater branchlines as late as the 1950's.

I have the impression that these old coaches didn't wander from their original regions. Mainline stock did, SR would find themselves in the northwest after being run into Oxford for an engine change. WR coaches would of course be found on the southeast coast. Those wonderful summer specials have great modeling potential.


Nigel

Hi Rick. Thank you for your reply. It must have been a post war panic getting the neglected Railway back on track and businesses back to work. In my reply to Nigel I mentioned that club meeting where there was a “ Slide Show “ of.the Rolling Stock of the day being in various liveries. I also prefer Bachmann Stock for the same reasons as you do, but I do have a lot of carriages and a couple of EMU’s 2 BIL & HAL and still looking out for news of more Southern Stock, I also have a Push Pull Set, very good for small Layouts.  Best wishes Kevin 

Hi Nigel . A good excuse for building an “ Heritage Railway “ just like the one that Ron ( g0ibi. ) of this Parish built.And then one can run anything that comes to the market.   Best wishes Kevin 

Kevin i think the rule of thumb is it is your railway you run what you want.

As Nigel said there is probably a prototype for everything.

If you want your layout to be an exact time period and have totally the correct actual stock that would have run you would have to do a lot of research.

In the later BR years a lot of stuff did get mixed up it was not uncommon to see multiple livery trains.

Brian

Hi Brian. Thank you for your reply.  It was only an idea , a fad one may say. Until one day when and if I fit a third â€œ plank/ module “ I will leave it as it is. It is not as though I am able bodied at the time of writing. Best wishes Kevin