Need to use two Nigel Lawton micro motors together to avoid burning out.

Hi Guys,
I am building a KW trams Glasgow standard kit but want to keep the lower saloon clear so that I can put passengers in.
This involves putting the motor below floor level or as low as possible or children and persons of vertically challenged stature only downstairs.
(See Billy Connolly's Hilarious Bit - You Tube. Yes it is totally non-PC but there is no malice intended on my part)

I have a couple of Nigel Lawton's little 6Volt motors which he supplies with a dropper resistor so they can be used on a 12Volt layout. Because of the weight of the kit I want to use two of them (on per axle) to avoid burning them out.
So – how do I wire them? Series parallel and where do the resisters go in the circuit?

Thanks in anticipation

Jim

If you can wire them in series, you won't need resistors as long as your main voltage doesn't go over 13v but in series, they will need to run at the same speed, even parallel, they may not run perfectly together.

Hi Sol
That's what I originally thought, but, when I bought them and asked the question about wiring them in on two bogies (I have recently unearthed my two 1970 BEC bogies  and so freed up these two motors) Nigel said that for various unspecified technical reasons this was not a good idea. I have since emptied my inbox so no longer have his reply and he has not replied to my email yet so I asked you guys on the board.
My vintage Coronation tram runs fine on two other BEC power bogies but as I intend to use only one per card model this will not be a problem.

Thanks for the prompt reply

Regards
Jim

Hi Jim,

There is a link on the site to axle mounted drives. It shows 2 motors wired in series in one bogie with not a resistor in sight. I cannot see any reason why you can't separate them into 2 bogies with appropriate wiring or just run them independently with resistors. For the latter it would be the same as running 2 trams at the same time. This assumes that both motors have similar characteristics.

If I was running a 6v motor I think I would tackle this from the controller end, and limit the output to 6 volts. My DC controller is calibrated in volts. Not sure how this would work with a PWM  unit though. Or with a 12v tram running at the same time as a 6v one.

Are you sure you need 2 motors. Nigel Lawton says he has run them at 130gm load. Good ventilation to get rid of heat would help.

Nigel

Hi Nigel
The snag here is that the basic kit before assembly is 370 grams, not too bad but I still need to add wheels, passengers, a truck. detailing, overhead pickup and the motor. I think I am looking at 380 to 400 grams.
The plan is to use two motors to provide the power as in full size practice with one motor on each axle without overloading a single motor. Originally these were to power two of my card trams as the weight is well within the capability of the motor so only one power axle as these are standard 4 wheel trucks.
The idea of running a 6 volt system is attractive and by using a variable voltage adaptor I can tell you that standard 12 volt motor will work down to 4.5 volts in OO and 3 volts in N. Scale speed is better too.

So back to you and I look forwards to being educated.
Regards
Jim

Hi Jim,

I leave the electrical stuff to the experts. Those 6v coreless motors are fine for low weights, they do not like being stressed. The design is such that there is almost zero ventilation. Even 2 motors might be stretching it a bit for the weight you have.

The weight you want to move around is considerable and not something I would attempt with a high revving low torque motor.. Hollywood Foundry when active had a neat design for a centrally mounted motor driving both axles through cardan shafts. If I was into this I would have a go at replicating it with an oblong 12v motor driving worms on the axles of the bogies. I would also have a look at some of the High Level gearbox/motor combinations. NWSL over here still appear to have Stanton Drives, powered bogies with decent 12v motors. HO Stanton Drives - NorthWest Short Line Smallest is a 6'6" wheel base in HO, so around 5.5 feet in OO. I've used these in the past, along with Black Beetles.

Nigel

Hi Nigel
What you say is totally valid however I am attempting to keep the lower saloon clear and fit seats and passengers as well as a driver and clippie. The micro motors will actually fit under the floor and leave sufficient clearance above the road surface. Height above the track bed is not normally a consideration for rail modellers. I need to put passengers in as a tram without them is not a normal scenario and they are more visible than in a railway carriage.
At 400 grams this is a shared load of 200 grams apiece which is 55% of max (360 grams) load and should be OK., besides which I doubt if I will ever run them on max power as controllers mainly function on voltage reduction to produce lower speed.
Just weighed my BEC Coronation and it's 335 grams. A lot heavier than I expected. Also, I weighed the new kit still boxed up so there may be room for error.

Regards
Jim

Hi  Jim,

Understood. Quart needed in a pint pot situation. I know nowt about trams, trolleys or street cars, except they come in 4 or 8 wheel varieties. Any chance you can put a vertical motor under the stairs? I was thinking of a Tomix or Kato n-scale 12v motor.

Nigel

Not an uncommon problem. I can just about cope with steam loco types/classification but after Bo-Bo diesel I'm lost  Co-Co is just a bedtime drink to me. :???: :???:
I wish I could use some of the solutions you offer but underfloor is about the only place I can get the motor in without intrusion. Think N scale DMU but with clear windows and you get the idea.

Info slot:
The motor chassis unit is a truck on four wheeled trams and two four wheeled bogies attached to a chassis are the eight wheelers. You can get any even number of motors from two to eight with the occasional single motor driving two axles.

Regards
Jim