Hi its Budslots here -  having an intermittent problem with my Hornby Select DCC controller.  Since adding some " dead sections" controlled by Hornby on/off switches in my fiddle yard to restore power, the contoller is is going into a mode of continuing rolling numbers 1 to 12 flashing on the screen at a very fast rate and totally losing control of the previously selected loco. There seems to be no way of stopping the flashing numbers unless you turn off all power and leave it for a couple of hours. Reconnecting the power after 10 minutes for instance does not fix the problem. It appears to fix itself after a long period. The problem appears to commence after a loco is driven onto the "dead section " and then you try to hook up another loco and off she malfunctions again. On a smaller circuit with one dead section I did not have any problems but now since adding a fiddle yard and a couple more dead sections its gone haywire. Has anyone else had this problem occur with the Hornby Select DCC controllers ?  Pressing the cancel and stop buttons does nothing.  Look forward to hearing from anyone that knows how I can fix it .    Regards Neil

Neil, the Select I think was the first "DCC" system that Hornby released a few years ago & at the time of release, did not meet NMRA standards & has caused a lot of problems with other good decoders.
 Have you contacted Hornby Support
http://www.hornby.com/support/ ? - it may even pay to join the Hornby Forum.

Hi Ron - thanks for your reply.  The Select & Elite Controllers are  to my knowledge  both still current units as of the latest catologue and all my loco's contain Hornby DCC chips so there should not be any incompatible  problems. Its got me baffled why its doing this now as before more track and "dead sections" were added it was operating faultlessly.  The clue has got to be in the strength maybe of the DCC signal. Its the only thing I can think of but its not a huge layout by  some standards.  Regards Neil

Hi Neil

It sounds very odd.  I could come over on the weekend and have a peek if you like.

Cheers

Hi Max  - thanks for the offer mate - much appreciated.  Let me do some more testing tomorrow night (Friday ) and confirm the sequence of events when it starts to go off the rails ( pun intended ). I will be in touch.  Regards Neil.  ( MOB:  0417845975  )

 Neil have you tried a factory reset? it can help,I really can`t see how dead  sections would affect it
:thumbs;-):cool:

OK   I'm on 0409 692 003

Hi - thanks for the response.  Have not tried that yet only cause I have to reprogramme all the locos but if this problem persists I will definitely give that a go mate.    Regards Neil

Neil, a factory reset of the system normally does not affect decoder programming especially if you take all locos off the tracks. It is decoder that holds its own details - not the Command Station.

I have only just caught up with this thread.

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but I am a little puzzled. Why do you use switched 'dead sections'? I have always believed that the whole idea of DCC was that all the track was live all the time. You should be able to drive as many locos as you want onto one piece of track without needing to use any switched sections.

Is it possible that the switching of these sections is somehow causing an intermittent short somewhere? This could be enough to send the controller's processor into a bit of a flap. Is it even possible that the switches themselves are sending an electronic 'spike' that is confusing the controller?

Perry

I suspect you may have a point there Perry about the "spikes" when the switches are thrown ……………:roll::roll:  It could also be a bad connection somewhere on a rail joint or switch creating a surge - or just slight arcing at the switch………….

It might be worth trying each section separately Neil to see if it's one particular switch/sequence/section causing the problem.

I have heard of people using dead sections with DCC to be able to "turn off" a loco (or a train).  For example, if you have coach lighting - I have a rake of lit Pullmans - and you want to park it up - you can't turn the lights off unless you can kill the section. :roll:  It looks odd sitting in a siding with all the lights on.  You can't kill the lights on the Bachmann Derby Lightweight - at least I can't on mine ……… Also, I wonder if stationary locos draw any current ?  Maybe you could get to the overload point with lots of locos just sitting there - I don't know - maybe they only draw current when on the move …………:roll:

I think there is a 'stand-by' current drawn by locos not being used, as I believe I read somewhere that the Hornby Select can (according to the amperage of the power supply) run up to three locos and have (I think) up to ten on stand-by. I think this was for the 1 amp PSU. Don't quote me on the numbers though; I'm only going on memory (and that's not as good as it was!)

Perry

Hi,

I think you are right with regards to the number of loco's that are actually running. I'm sure I read to allow up to an amp per loco and if you had lights and other functions, this may be more. You also have our old friend volts drop to contend with on top of that.

As far as stationery loco's go, I'm not sure but I thought they were ok as long as lights, sound, carriage lighting etc was switched off.

I hear what you are saying with regards to lighting Petermac. The carriage lighting I was reading about was retrofit which was wired to a decoder function which was controllable.

My understanding of stationery loco's sitting on the track is that a negligible amount of power has to be drawn as the decoder needs to be able to recognise the signal when called upon. This should be a tiny power draw I would think.

What are the dimensions of the layout. Mines is 10 feet by 12 and when buying the NCE system I opted for the 5 amp power supply as the standard 2 amp version would have been cutting it fine. I'm talking volts drop and deterioration of the signal over distance.

Cheers

Toto

[user=1505]toto[/user] wrote:

Hi,

I think you are right with regards to the number of loco's that are actually running. I'm sure I read to allow up to an amp per loco and if you had lights and other functions, this may be more. You also have our old friend volts drop to contend with on top of that.


Cheers

Toto

Toto, at one amp per loco. it would have to be a very old loco as modern motors draw under 200 milliamps ( with lights & sounds - it may stretch to 400 milliamps ) and voltage drop would only occur if the power bus cables are very light gauge .

The exception is Heljan locos which can draw over 500 Milliamps so that is why the early decoders were burning out.

Hopefully Neil will call me tomorrow and I can pop over with some diagnostics and identify the gremlin.

Hi Max and everyone else that has tried to offer help to fix this problem - I have found out whats causing it and purely by accident. Turns out that one of the recently installed hornby curved points is not liking the fitment of the DCC Electro Power clips to it.  With the points angled to allow the inner track  to access the main line it  was causing a short with the dcc clip installed. In the main straight ahead position there was no problem so I have removed both electro dcc clips from the curved point and "hey presto " everything works fine without the clips. I am still baffled as to why that point does not like the dcc clips installed as I have 3 other curved points and a heap of straight points all with clips installed and none have caused this malfunction to the Select Controller.  Anyhow its fixed and when I get time I will disconnect the "rogue point" and check underneath to see if theres a fault in manufacture that could cause it to short when dcc electro clips are installed.   Regards Neil

Hi Perry -  yes you are entirely right with the way dcc operates.  My idea to introduce some dead sections was that when a loco was travelling around the mainline I could redirect it into a hidden fiddle yard and when it hits the dead section it would stop before popping out of the tunnel. I can leave it there for any amount of time and reconnect the power when I want it to reappear. Same with a dead section at the end of a station - the train will pull up in the right position and then when I want it to pull out of the station I throw the switch and off it goes.  Dont know if this system makes sense or goes against the grain of Railway operation but to me it gives a"breather" to go an operate another loco whilst you have others stopped in various locations. Let me know your thoughts mate.  Regards Neil

[user=1653]Budslots[/user] wrote:

Hi Max and everyone else that has tried to offer help to fix this problem - I have found out whats causing it and purely by accident. Turns out that one of the recently installed hornby curved points is not liking the fitment of the DCC Electro Power clips to it.  With the points angled to allow the inner track  to access the main line it  was causing a short with the dcc clip installed. In the main straight ahead position there was no problem so I have removed both electro dcc clips from the curved point and "hey presto " everything works fine without the clips. I am still baffled as to why that point does not like the dcc clips installed as I have 3 other curved points and a heap of straight points all with clips installed and none have caused this malfunction to the Select Controller.  Anyhow its fixed and when I get time I will disconnect the "rogue point" and check underneath to see if theres a fault in manufacture that could cause it to short when dcc electro clips are installed.   Regards Neil

Neil, actually a track plan and which point is giving you grief would help clear this up.
The clips are designed for DCC as they bond stock rail to blade so that blade contact is not a problem.
The clips then feed power to both rails of the V all the time & dependant on what is on the other end of the V - both the main & branch lines may create a short circuit.

[user=1653]Budslots[/user] wrote:

Hi Perry -  yes you are entirely right with the way dcc operates.  My idea to introduce some dead sections was that when a loco was travelling around the mainline I could redirect it into a hidden fiddle yard and when it hits the dead section it would stop before popping out of the tunnel. I can leave it there for any amount of time and reconnect the power when I want it to reappear. Same with a dead section at the end of a station - the train will pull up in the right position and then when I want it to pull out of the station I throw the switch and off it goes.  Dont know if this system makes sense or goes against the grain of Railway operation but to me it gives a"breather" to go an operate another loco whilst you have others stopped in various locations. Let me know your thoughts mate.  Regards Neil

Ah, now I geddit!!! :thumbs

That's a very cunning plan.

The sudden stop in the hidden fiddle yard is fine, but I guess you approach the station stop fairly slowly - otherwise it will look like a full-on emergency stop!

As for "going against the grain of Railway operation", it's your railway, and you run it exactly how you want.  I don't think anyone here would say otherwise.

:cheers

Perry