Chip recommendations for my 'fleet'?
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#178565
(In Topic #10100)
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Hornby Q1 class C21 (Super detail)
Hornby "Schools" class, "Dover" R257.
Hornby "Battle of Britain" "41 Squadron" R074.
Hornby "Merchant Navy" "Bibby Line" R2204 (Super detail).
Wrenn 0-6-0 tank, Southern 1127. W2207.
Hornby 'Collectors club' Southern 0-4-0 tank. R3213.
Hornby Industrial 0-4-0 (Trewavas Aggregates) R2940. (I'm planning a Quarry!).
Hornby M7 tank 0-4-4. R103.
Lima "Battle of Britain" "Winston Churchill" (5106W)
Triang 2 car EMU S1057S/S1052S.
Bachmann class 411 4 car EMU set 31-426A (21 pin DCC ready).
Most of my 'fleet' have been what I'd call "low mileage, one owner" loco's, with a couple bought new. I'm quite prepared to use the Lima and Triang stuff as scenery if the general opinion is not to bother with DCC conversion for such old stuff, and I'd like to use Lenz chips as I see the general opinion seems to be that the extra price is worth it, and I have Lenz DCC control anyway. With the exception of the 4 car EMU, I can't see a need to control more operations than forward/reverse, as I'm not planning loco sound or lighting, so wondered if an 8 pin wired in chip (maybe the 'Standard' Lenz chip) would fit my needs, and is the 21 pin chip for the 4 car EMU necessary, or is it best to strip out the unnecessary board and just wire in a more basic chip? All advice and opinions are most welcome to a "DCC Virgin"!
Cheers,
Keith.
Posted
Inactive Member
I'm probably the worst one to ask, as I use exclusively Loksound decoders.
If I were to fit non-sound, I would only use Lenz. They cost a bit more, but it will save you grief in the long run.
Hornby and Bachmann are cheap, but they don't support all of the Functions.
TCS and DCC Concepts (which are the same decoder), have holes in their speed tables, which require clever mods.
Once again, I'm probably your worst option, but I never plug decoders in.
I always REMOVE THE CAPACITORS and then strip all of the wiring out and rewire the loco to the NMRA colour specs.
But that's just me.
This is one of those places in the Hobby where it's important to do it right the first time.
There are plenty of guys here who will help you.
Cheers
Max
Port Elderley
Port Elderley
Posted
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The 4CEP takes the 21-pin easily and runs very well with it. I certainly wouldn't bother doing anything else. The Q1 has an 8-pin socket and the decoder fits easily. I suspect your MN R2204 is not DCC-ready but hard wiring is not a problem as there's plenty of space.
I can't speak for your earlier locos, but the Lenz Standard+ decoder has 1-amp output, compared to 500ma for the Hornby R8249 and I suspect these earlier mechanisms have more power hungry motors. However, you may have a problem with space inside the smaller locos.
One other benefit of Lenz decoders is that they have short-circuit and overload protection, so you can't fry a decoder by wiring it wrongly or overloading it!
Last edit: by RFS
Robert
Posted
Full Member
I would go along with most of what has been said here.
I also like ESU LokPilots, which (along with Lenz) seem to work particularly well with Heljan diesels. Both types have overload protection.
I do like TCS decoders generally and don't have too many problems with them - I reckon they are one of the best compromises between cost and features (i.e. value for money). They are not as good as the Lenz and ESU brands but sre usually cheaper, and have their goof-proof warranty, which means they will replace any decoder that blows up, regardless of whether it was your fault or theirs. The TCS DP2X-UK is a particularly useful decoder as it will plug straight into the likes of the current Hornby M7 without the need to remove any of the precious weights from the side tanks. Otherwise, the M1 in its various forms is a good high capacity (1 amp plus) but very small decoder for tight spaces, and the Z2 is a tiny decoder ideal for hard-wiring jobs like Dapol and Hornby Terriers.
I would avoid the Hornby decoders, not only because of their low (0.5 amp) capacity but also because they are delicate and fry easily. If you have any of these, save them to use as function only decoders for jobs like controlling directional and interior lighting in trailers (like DMU driving/unpowered trailers).
Older Triang/Hornby types do use more power than later mechanisms, so the SR EMU, R103 M7 and R074 Battle of Britain would be best with the likes of a Lenz Silver, ESU LokPilot 4 or the somewhat cheaper TCS T1.
The Merchant Navy and Q1 would benefit from a Lenz mini or TCS M1P or DP2X-UK.
All of my non-sound Bachmann EMUs (4 CEP, 2 EPB, MLV) have Lenz Silver 21-pin decoders which work very, very well in those (the sound-fitted ones have ESU LokSound decoders). I would be inclined to leave well enough alone and use the 21-pin decoders on the existing circuit boards and wiring.
I have done one of the Wrenn/Hornby Dublo R1 0-6-0 tanks, but also included a new 'neo-magnet' for the motor to reduce power consumption. I used a TCS M1 decoder for this one - I couldn't quite fit a slightly higher powered T1 in the space.
Last edit: by SRman
Jeff Lynn,
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Keith.
Posted
Inactive Member
It sounds like you are making progress.
I have two programming tracks on my main layout. One is the Lenz PT and one is for my second Lokprogrammer.
They are switched in and out by means of double pole double throw (DPDT) switches.
The reason I've done that is so that once the loco is put on to the layout, I don't have to handle it again.
That's important with steam locos with all their crank rods, etc.
Once they are programmed the sections of track revert to normal running.
The two programming sections are in the main line, which also has an in track speedometer for speed matching.
Having them on the main line means that they are close to the operator (me). I've found that helpful if I'm trying to count the number of chuffs per revolution, for example.
Just a thought. :cool:
Max
Port Elderley
Port Elderley
Posted
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Firstly that Lord Nelson. It's one of Bachmann's wonderful "split chassis" types and one of the most difficult to convert to DCC, as it basically has to be dismantled and re-assembled. Probably needs to be one of your later conversions!
A programming track is basically just for setting up the decoder's CVs. It just has a very low voltage, so if you've made a mistake and got the wiring wrong it won't do any damage to the loco or decoder. When the DCC command station sets a CV it does "pulse" the loco so it may jerk slightly forward, so for this reason the track should at least a couple of feet long.
I have my programming track doubling as a siding, and like Max I have a DPDT switch that switches it from track power to programming track power. I've made it long enough so I can drive the whole of a 4CEP onto it without having to split off just the powered coach. I also acquired a Lenz decoder programmer off Ebay recently (for less than £30 when the RRP is £145). This allows me to have the programming track independent of the main layout (ie I can use it without having the rest of the layout powered down). I use Lenz's CV Editor to manage the CVs, and this program also allows me the flash the firmware of my Lenz decoders to current levels as required.
I'm running DCC automation with RR&Co TrainController and for speed profiling I have three consecutive blocks in my storage yard for doing this. TC will measure the maximum speed of the loco over the centre block and I then adjust CV5 until I get a reasonable value (no more than 70mph).
Robert
Posted
Full Member
I have 6 pole rotary switch set up to the programming track, with connections to:
1. LokProgrammer
2. Off/isolated
3. NCE Power Cab (with possible USB connection to computer and JRMI Decoder Pro)
4. Off/isolated
5. NCE Power Pro with connection to computer and JRMI Decoder Pro
6. 12 volt analogue DC controller (added afterwards - shows as 'Off' in the photo).
Certain types of decoder, especially Hornby ones, will leap forwards when you program them, so a little bit of provision for overrun is desirable. Alternatively, use a rolling road setup on the track.
The reason for using the Power Cab is that it has a little more power on the programming track, suitable for recalcitrant sound decoders. Otherwise the Power Pro is fine for most such jobs.
Last edit: by SRman
Jeff Lynn,
Amateur layabout, Professional Lurker, Thread hijacker extraordinaire
Amateur layabout, Professional Lurker, Thread hijacker extraordinaire
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Talking of Ebay, just this afternoon, I picked up a new Lenz USB L1 computer Ethernet link control unit for just under half retail price to go with my Lenz 'Set 100'. Just got to find time to strip and check the rest of my loco's now, so I can make a list of my decoder needs before I go shopping with that German box shifter!
Keith.
Posted
Inactive Member
Regards,
Brian
ECoS, Laptop, TrainController Gold v8
Brian
ECoS, Laptop, TrainController Gold v8
Posted
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Talking of Ebay, just this afternoon, I picked up a new Lenz USB L1 computer Ethernet link control unit for just under half retail price to go with my Lenz 'Set 100'. Just got to find time to strip and check the rest of my loco's now, so I can make a list of my decoder needs before I go shopping with that German box shifter!
The LI-USB has been around for a long while and has been superseded by the 23151 USB/Ethernet. However it works fine provided you have the up-to-date drivers. The driver disk is way down-level and only usable as a coaster! The unit uses the common FTDI chip and latest drivers are easily installable. I would suggest following these instructions here, which I've just done to update mine to current FTDI level (2.10.00)
http://mike.itsfido.com/2013/10/lenz-li-usb-on-windows-8-1-x64-with-jmri/
Likewise the CV Editor on the disk has been replaced with the one on the Lenz web-site whose current version is 1.1.7.
Edit: another tip - make sure that the LI-USB firmware is flashed at the same level as your LZV100. Should both be at 3.6.
Last edit: by RFS
Robert
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Keith.
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Most model rail stuff is Windows based, so Macs need a bit more skill.
Despite that, the people I know who have Macs, love them. Go figure.
Post your question here Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos
You will find plenty of help.
Cheers
Max
Port Elderley
Port Elderley
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Good to see that you are progressing your decoders without too much grief. Some pictures of your layout progress ( with these demon droppers ) would be interesting.
Cheers
Toto
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Keith.
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