What do you get for your dosh

I note that Bachmann are offering their class 37 Highland Region with DCC sound for £ 155.00. Also a class 25 with sound for £139.00.

What can you expect for your dosh at these prices considering you are usually paying in excess of £100.00 for sound alone. Are they any good ?


Toto

Are these part of their new "budget sound" range Tom ?

I heard a YouTube clip of a Class 20 from that range and wasn't impressed. …………………but others may have other ideas. :roll:

I'm not sure Peter. These are advertised on Hattons website. They don't say much about them except DCC sound fitted.

They just seem to good to be true at these prices unless its just some kind of stock clearance attempt, but even though , very cheap.

Don't know if Paul Chatters would be able to enlighten us on the subject as to the differences. They must be either a very crude attempt, or a very good bargain……….but which ?

Cheers

Toto

My apologies Paul Chetter not Chatter

:oops:

Toto

From what I've read guys, the sound decoders in these models will be Soundtraxx (Bachmann usually use ESU Loksound I think (at least the Cl 20 I bought was so fitted)).  The sound files in the decoder will be permanent, i.e.: the decoders cannot be "reblown".  I have no experience with Soundtraxx so don't know whether their performance is up to ESU standards.  I'm always a bit leery about bargains.

Waiting for the more knowledgeable to chime in here.
ESU sound fitted locos are generally less expensive than if you add the decoder later.  Don't use the RRP as a benchmark, retailers usually discount that by about 15%.
John

Hopefully, here's a clip of the Class 20.  It's a poor recording but maybe you can judge for yourself.  Remember Tom, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is ………….:roll::roll:

That's what  I was thinking………ask for cheap…….you get cheap.

I'll listen to the link anyway out of curiosity. I've also been looking at Olivia's trains as well but at the average of £300 a go, I fear they are not top of my wanted list. I am still gathering stuff for the big day and have all the track ( not quite fully worked out yet ) and an estimated 30 ish sets of turnouts etc to buy. So in reality, the sound can wait. ……….a step at a time .

Cheers

Toto

Hi Everyone,

Brossard has summed up most of what has been officially released.

If you recall, the Blue Pullman used Soundtraxx non-sound decoders rebadged Bachmann, so the tie-in has been started some time ago.

Soundtraxx supplied ZTC with re-badged sound decoders some time ago, with some British whistles etc. Not too bad for the time,but time has marched on…..

Bachmann have, apparently, been successful with this strategy in the USA, and with many (but by no means all) Brits complaining about the cost of sound locos, I suppose it was inevitable that a cheaper solution would be offered.

Given my background, it's hard for me to be, or appear to be, entirely impartial on this issue.

On the one hand, if it encourages new people to try sound which in turn broadens the consumer base, then there is always the chance that those people will wish to 'upgrade', provided that they are not put off by the experience.

The problem is that there is no inexpensive upgrade route, no re-blow possibilities if you dont like what you've bought, and no aftermarket to support you.

On the other, this might simply trigger a race to offer the cheapest solutions - I can't imagine Hornby will not respond in some way.

Fact is, the manufacturers have been too complacent, with many sound offerings at the 'full fat' price being relatively poor when compared to aftermarket offerings from Howes and others.

There will always be a proportion of buyers for whom price is the key factor. Others will judge 'value' rather diferently.

For it seems that the price to be paid for these budget solutions is a non-reprogrammable decoder, with a very limited set of ancillary sounds. It's too early to judge the quality of sound or motor control available.

Quality of the video sound aside, I struggled to identify the Class 20 in the clip Peter posted from the engine sounds. And the 'Chopper' exhaust has to be one of the most distinctly identifiable sounds on the railway.

Provided they are OK and the driving sounds opertate prototypically, then I'm sure there will be a market for them. I read somewhere recently that a sizable proportion of sound locos were bought by/for youngsters, perhaps this is the target audience?

I've stated many times that in my view, 'some sound is better than non' so it would be churlish of me not to welcome this development, provided purchasers are made aware of the features and limitations of the product.

They are unlikely to have any draw for me, though.

Hope that has not come out too biased, it was not intended as a polemic. LOL

Kind regards

Paul

 

I suspect it's not a question of your being biased Paul, it's stating the obvious that, within reason, you get what you pay for, although I note you have qualified that by saying there are/were "less than ideal" chips on the market at top end prices.

My worry - although I'm a user and not a "marketer", is that people will buy these attractively priced locos and decide "sound" isn't all it's trumped up to be and discard it.

The few locos I've got sound in are superb.  They were not cheap but I'd rather save up and have "my sound" than spend 75% of the cash and get poor sound.

In answer to Brossard's comment that "factory fitted sound" is usually cheaper than retro fit, you're probably right John but is it as good ?  I have a Bachmann Class 25 factory fitted sound loco that I thought was not expensive.  The problem is, it needs re-blowing.  It moves off before the brakes are released and the horn is absolutely dreadful !!!  The rest, I have to say, is excellent - start up, shut down, notching up etc. - really good.  I understand there was a batch with badly synchronised chips fitted and I assume I bought one of them.  Probably why it wasn't particularly expensive ……………:roll::roll::roll:

Looking at Hattons site  the sound locos that are on special have the normal code for Bachmann sound locos. So I would say that is very likely that they are the ESU Loksound decoders.
Why not give them a call to be sure.

Interestingly, I have just bought a Bachmann class 25 with ESU LokSound v4 from Hattons for Â£139.00 (less VAT plus p & p). However, the new 'budget' versions will probably sell for less than the quoted retail price, making them reasonably good value.

As Paul has sort of indicated, if the sound is not up to scratch (in the purchaser's opinion) nothing can be done about it as the new SoundTraxx decoders won't be able to be 'reblown', whereas the class 25 I bought has a couple of known issues that can be entirely overcome by sending the decoder to one of the major sound players for a reblow. Likewise for the Hornby 08 I bought for half retail price (at Â£114.00) - this has been roundly criticised by many for the sounds but I bought it with a reblow in mind, where it will still represent good value for money.

Incidentally, from only the short clip Bachmann posted of the 'budget' class 20, I thought the sound at full revs was actually better than their existing full-priced versions. I would like to hear the throttle up and spool down sounds before I committed to buying one, though.

What issues do you have with that Class 25 Jeff ?  I suspect it's from the same batch I bought ………………:roll:

Hi Peter. One of the worst was the brake release coming after it has started moving - a result of the conversion from LokSound 3.5 to 4. Another which I have now encountered on my friend's son's model, and now my own, is the stuttering when blowing the horns (I documented this and the solution elsewhere).

For the time being, after running in, I have set the master volume (CV63) to 90 which cures the stuttering and removed the body and surrounded the speaker with Blu-Tack to box it in and form a sound chamber, which also restores the volume a bit. I set CV2 (starting voltage) to 0 and CV3 (acceleration) to a very high value of 150 which means I can set it on speed step one, where it doesn't move, listen for the brake release then accelerate it to higher speed steps.

At some point I'll send it for that reblow I mentioned before.

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

 I have a Bachmann Class 25 factory fitted sound loco that I thought was not expensive.  The problem is, it needs re-blowing.  It moves off before the brakes are released and the horn is absolutely dreadful !!!  The rest, I have to say, is excellent - start up, shut down, notching up etc. - really good.  I understand there was a batch with badly synchronised chips fitted and I assume I bought one of them.  Probably why it wasn't particularly expensive ……………:roll::roll::roll:

Peter,

That's exactly the complacency I was refering to, plus the hopeless steam sound files which jump to obviously different sound samples at higher speeds. There should a smooth transition. Locos travelling at fixed speeds in videos can 'mask' such shortcomings and I agree that it would be wise to hear prospctive purchases in all operating conditions. That's the basis of my live sound demos……

I think the worst I've heard is the Bachmann Jubilee. Frankly, I don't know how anyone selling these could sleep at night! But there are others almost as bad.

The 25 was one of many where they simply 'converted' the existing Lok 3.5 files to run on the totally different Lok V4.0 without proper testing (ie investment) before release. Incidentally to be fair to SWD who produced the original for Bachmann, they have offered purchasers free re-blows to cure these issues, so an email to them will probably get you the same sounds but working properly for just the postage.

Paul

[user=321]SRman[/user] wrote:

Likewise for the Hornby 08 I bought for half retail price (at Â£114.00) - this has been roundly criticised by many for the sounds but I bought it with a reblow in mind, where it will still represent good value for money.

Incidentally, from only the short clip Bachmann posted of the 'budget' class 20, I thought the sound at full revs was actually better than their existing full-priced versions. I would like to hear the throttle up and spool down sounds before I committed to buying one, though.

These bargains come up from time to time even with top notch gear.

I also bought some £114 Hornby 08s. I whipped out the ESU chips, flogged them on ebay for very good money, and replaced them with Zimo decoders with my own sound project which has none of the issues you allude to. With ZIMO being cheaper than ESU and not having to pay anyone for a re-blow, the net cost per loco, sound fitted, worked out at well below £100. Happy days.

I assume you must be comparing the budget to the existing Bachmann Class 20 sound, not to a real Class 20. LOL (Tongue in cheek?)

Kind regards,

Paul

[user=6]Petermac[/user] wrote:

Hopefully, here's a clip of the Class 20.  It's a poor recording but maybe you can judge for yourself.  Remember Tom, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is ………….:roll::roll:


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201711438967688

I'm not into sound yet but this clip is awful,it sounds more like a steam train to me.I'm sure there are better examples out there.

I have the Bachmann Class 25 with the synchronization problem. The Class 37 though is very good. If you decide to take the plnge - go for the Class 37.

Petermac


Your link required me to download flash player which unfortunately my I Pad does not support, or at least that is what it tells me.

I'll need to take your word for the sounds for the moment until I work out a fix.

Thanks anyway.

Toto

Toto: on your iPad, navigate on the Internet to Adobe's pages (www.adobe.com) and try loading the flash player from there. There's no guarantee it will work but, assuming you haven't tried it already, it may be worth a go.

[user=1505]toto[/user] wrote:

Petermac


Your link required me to download flash player which unfortunately my I Pad does not support, or at least that is what it tells me.

I'll need to take your word for the sounds for the moment until I work out a fix.

Thanks anyway.

Toto

Sorry Tom, I'd assumed this clip was available to all - it just came off the net ……………..:???::???::???:

If an I Pad doesn't support "Flashplayer", what does it use for playing clips ?  Is it somewhere else where a Mac isn't compatible with a PC ?

Don't break you neck to find a way round it Tom - the clip isn't worth too much effort ………………;-)