Does anyone have a copy of George Iliffe Stokes booklet "Buildings in miniature", published by Peco in the mid 1950s, that they are prepared to loan out for a short time (long enough for me to get it copied). Many thanks for your assistance. 

Hi Ian,

You might want to have a look at this link:

P-01: UK Copyright Law fact sheet :: The UK Copyright Service

Nigel

[user=1849]albert weatherspoon[/user] wrote:

Does anyone have a copy of George Iliffe Stokes booklet "Buildings in miniature", published by Peco in the mid 1950s, that they are prepared to loan out for a short time (long enough for me to get it copied). Many thanks for your assistance.

I haven't seen a copy for sale anywhere but you might find some information in the links below. I understand Malcolm Mitchell was bringing out an up to date version of the book.

http://www.swindonworks.co.uk/george-iliffe-stokes---scenic-artist.html

http://radnorailways.blogspot.ie/2014/05/yet-more-modelling-inspiration-george.html

[user=1632]BCDR[/user] wrote:

Hi Ian,

You might want to have a look at this link:

https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law

Nigel

That's true, but I only want it for the plans for personal use. No thoughts of letting it go public. A handy reminder though.

Hi Ian,

Bit more complicated than copying for "personal use". It comes under "Fair Use", which is OK if you are using the material for research and private study, which normally involves parts of a work, not the complete work. In this case copying the whole book is probably a no-no and would require permission from the copyright owner (as would a part of it if you want a specific plan).

Nigel

Doug/Chubber has had plenty of experience re getting permission to copy some parts of books even for personal use.

I see a copy sold for £2.99 on ebay last month and another for Â£29 the month before that! Hopefully one might come up on the net soon at reasonable cost.

Bill 

Hi Ron,

I've done this (getting permission to reproduce) from copyright holders for the past 30 years. Most are quite happy to give permission, even when it's for profit (there is usually a licensing fee to negotiate, quite normal). When it's for personal use and there is no commercial gain nearly every holder I've contacted has given permission. Reproducing in a not-for-profit forum (such as this one) normally results in limitations on how much can be reproduced. 10% is normally acceptable, but this is arbitrary. Not all will give permission though.

The major difficulty can be finding the copyright holder, especially for older hobby magazines when the publisher (the copyright holder) has changed several times or gone out of business. This doesn't mean the copyright has expired. I've had a few where the holder has self published, dies, and letters get returned. Doesn't mean that the copyright has died though. "Best effort" is called for here, and if copied and reproduced publicly,  a statement to that effect. I'm dealing with one at the moment where I want to copy a photograph for an article I'm writing. The owner has died, I cannot find a living relative, and the custodian of the photographic collection is not replying to my letters (and has probably died as well). Dead end.

The aim of copyright is to ensure that the holder has a monopoly on the work, and makes money from sales of said. UK law makes no mention of "personal use", instead it refers to "fair use", a concept which has been upheld in many legal cases since the act came into being in 1988. Photocopying one or two pages to assist in building a model is probably fair use (and would fall under research for a project), photocopying a book because you don't have it is probably not. Stating publicly that you want to borrow a magazine or book with the express intent of photocopying it is definitely not. And just because you bought the book or were given it doesn't give you the right to loan it with the express intent of it being copied and then returned. Copyright doesn't dies with the death of the copyright owner, it's 70 years from the death of the last author or 70 years from the date of publication if the author is unknown.

Although there are general principles of copyright, every country has it's own implementation. Due diligence and letters, not emails, to the copyright owner is advisable. Sounds draconian? So are the legal penalties.

Nigel

Nigel, there was a member on here who believed he could post any photo, etc  he liked on here without getting permission. We had to take them down and in another forum, he also boasted about making moulds of model objects to create copies for  possible sale. He didn't last long on that forum either!

Yes, I've had difficulties tracking down copyright holders myself. Sometimes it's impossible, as you say, and I have to either give up the use of text or image, or put an explanatory note explaining the situation. I would never republish anothers work off the cuff as it were.
 
In the case of book or magazine diagrams, theoretically we should ask before making use of them? Hobbyists share their knowledge with the expectation that it will be used, otherwise why show it.

Just proves that I should consider my wording before I start.

If it was published by Peco in the 1950's, that's your starting point.

Peco may be the copyright holder, particularly if they commissioned it,  or, if not, they should know who does hold it.

Unless it's urgent, and you can get a used copy online for £2.99, that's less than the cost of the ink it would use in a reprint ………….

Can't see Mr Stokes buying his Ferrari out of royalties on that.  :shock: :shock: :shock:

[user=1849]albert weatherspoon[/user] wrote:

Yes, I've had difficulties tracking down copyright holders myself. Sometimes it's impossible, as you say, and I have to either give up the use of text or image, or put an explanatory note explaining the situation. I would never republish anothers work off the cuff as it were.

In the case of book or magazine diagrams, theoretically we should ask before making use of them? Hobbyists share their knowledge with the expectation that it will be used, otherwise why show it.

Just proves that I should consider my wording before I start.

Hi Ian,

Reproducing an image or text that is going to be used publicly, yes. Using it for research purposes no, or as a template for your own use, no. You bought the magazine. Railway Modeller in the 1970's and 1980's always had a modeling template for wagons, trucks, etc.in every issue.How about a GER 10T low drop side wagon? (August 1976). The expectation was that the buyer of the magazine would set to and build one.

Selling what you made, even one, yes, you need a license and will pay royalties to the owner (not necessarily the author). Getting somebody to make a photocopy of their copy of the magazine, yes. You're depriving the copyright holder of income. Buy the magazine or book. Describing that image or quoting that text in another publication, no (as long as it's referenced).

Or just get a copy (there are several editions of this book). Most publishers are not that worried about books or magazines that are no longer in print, except when it will be used for commercial purposes. Then it becomes serious (that's what copyright is all about, the monopoly to make money). It's nice to have that letter saying "go ahead, not an issue".

Peco Publications contact is john.king@pecopublications.co.uk

Nigel

For those interested, while trying to source a copy of the booklet I have discovered that there is an enlarged reprint, to include a biography and many photographs, being considered under the Wild Swan list, by Malcolm Mitchell - www.swindonworks.co.uk - though the last mention was Nov 2015, though I assume pre-publication work will take some time. I look forward to it's eventual arrival.