Changes required

Hi there,

About a month ago I bought a couple foil a loco's, one Whitchurch came as part of a set which included a class 20 with 4 green carriages which are said to have been run in the north of Scotland. ( the main attraction for buying them ).I also bought a Lima class 37. They were quite cheap £ 100.00 and £ 49.00 respectively.

I saw them run in the shop and they were and still are fine. However I did not inspect them very thoroughly and when I got home realised on further inspection that the buffers were not sprung on either of the two loco's or the carriages.

Can these be easily changed …………if not, I fear they may be turned over to medical experiments as the over quality is not great. Lesson learned…..you only get what you pay for.

All advice great fully received as it would be a pity to see the loco's reduced to one of my potential. Scrapyard projects and the carriages turned into miscellaneous workmanship huts etc.

Cheers Toto.

Tell me, what's the big deal about sprung buffers?

When it comes to 4mm (I assume, as you said Lima)

they dont really do anything due to the couplers.

If you are converting to 3 link, then you should be

capable of doing the buffers as well.

If it was 7mm, then not only would it be easier, but

the locos were even better value, they aren't bad

in 4mm!

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

The buffers  are a bit unconvincing generally and compared with other manufacturers look a bit on the small side.

It may just be me as all my other models are from either Dapol, Heljan, Bachmann or one Hornby as I'm not as keen on some of the Hornby stuff either. No offence to anyone who uses Hornby or Lima. Just personal preference.

I thought sprung buffers were the norm these days.

I intend to have some pictures of my current loco's and rolling stock uploaded in the near future as I have not started my layout yet and wanted to let people see what I have been accumulating so far prior to the big day. Maybe you can keep an eye open for the Lima stuff and you could offer your opinion in comparison to my other stock.

I think that with a bit of alteration they could be improved ( again, just my opinion ). The body shells are not as convincingly finished either with the BR yellow being almost see through against a light source. This may also need a bit toning down to make a bit more convincing.

Thanks for your interest and keep your eye open for my loco piccies thread.

Cheers

Toto.

[user=1505]toto[/user] wrote:

Hi Jeff,

The buffers are a bit unconvincing generally and compared with other manufacturers look a bit on the small side.

I thought sprung buffers were the norm these days.

Cheers

Toto.

Toto,

Sprung buffers are quite common on the newer or

high end models, but most of the producers also

have many models without, (esp. cheaper, older

& low-end stuff).

There are a lot of after market producers that do

sprung buffers, and (on most models) are quite

easy to change.

Cheers, Jeff

Bachmann market packs of their sprung buffers, which are not that difficult to fit. Cut off the old buffer shanks (the heads should be separate anyway), drill suitable sized holes and glue the sprung replacements in.

Lima tended to use self-coloured plastic for the warning yellow on many of their diesel outline locos. I have found that painting the insides of the noses or cab fronts (depending on the type involved) with black or dark grey reduces the translucent effect considerably but to prevent light 'seeping' through the corners the yellow really needs to be painted properly. Again depending on the classes involved, shaving off moulded handrails and replacing them with wire before repainting can be a very effective improvement.



This is a Lima class 30/31 modified as noted. The 'folded' yellow headcode discs show the translucent edge effect that I was referring to, compared to the solid painted yellow of the cab front. Black edging to the cab windows aso improves the appearance. I have not fitted sprung buffers to this one.

Thanks for that Jeff,
I never thought of painting the inside of the plastic. I think that even I could have a go at that.

Likewise with the replacement buffers and potentially additional fittings etc. this could be my very first attempt at a rehash, and if I screw up, no big deal.

In fact it could end up as one of my favourites if the experiments work out as something with a bit of your own effort gives a feeling of accomplishment.

Thanks for the tips.

Cheers

Toto

That's exactly my feeling regarding modelling. I still like to make white metal buses, for example, even though the die cast manufacturers may have produced the same models with better finishes than I can achieve - there is something of ME in them, a sense of achievement.


With practice one gets better at these things too. I'll make no bones about it, if you try something you will almost certainly make mistakes along the way but that is also a part of the learning process. All those Pendon modelling experts didn't become experts overnight!

:cool:  :cheers


Another thought occurs to me too: many coaches with buckeye couplings and Pullman gangways, such as BR marks 1, 2 and 3, Pullmans,  Bulleid and Maunsell SR types and Gresley and Thompson LNER types would have run with their buffers compressed and non-operational most of the time, using the Pullman rubbing plates instead for the buffing loads. As such, you may simply wish to change the buffer heads to something more accurate and set them in the compressed positions anyway.

I'm with Jeff (jcm@gwr) here - why bother with sprung buffers ?  By all means, change them for more authentic looking brass ones but I just can't see the point of springing them (unless you use 3 link couplings or similar).  They serve no useful purpose, most of the time nobody knows they're sprung and they can be delicate.  In any case, in comparison to the buffer head, the shanks are always miles too thin.

I do wonder if, at times, manufacturers are going a bit too far for running stock.  It's OK for collectors who want a perfect copy sitting on a shelf, but some of the locos are nearly impossible to handle without breaking some fitting or other.

I wouldn't want to go back to the "lumps" we used to be offered, but I'm not sure they need to go any further with detailing because it must add considerably to the price.

I'd rather they concentrated their efforts on the running capabilities - all wheel pickup and perfectly smooth, multi-core motors etc. :roll::roll:

Oh - nearly forgot - I too have had my fair share of "auction" disasters and, whilst I know some people have great success, I now tend to avoid them ………particularly as I recently saw a rake of 3 Bachmann 16T steel mineral wagons go for nearly £30 !!!!

Same here I don't touch auctions…

I picked up a Lima class 37 from a car boot sale earlier this year for the grand amount of £5, I carry a 9 volt battery when I go car booting just to do a quick test.

The class 37 wouldn't run with power from the wheels, so I unclipped the body and applied power straight to the motor with the battery and away it went.

Just needed one wire soldering back on when I got home.

Bargain!

 

Hi Toto,I have uploaded a couple of pictures showing what can be done with loco's bought at a reasonable price. This Lima class 47 I picked up for £18. I added bufferbeam detailing and etched roof fans. I have now converted it to DCC.

A good job, Andy.  :thumbs

It looks like a customer is about to be struck by a billboard.

Great camera work, catching it before the impact. 

Hi Max , its all that bad weather we have been having here in Somerset. Repairs have been completed, without any injury's!!!

Regards

Andy

Hi Andy,

You have done a good job on these 47's. I like seeing these roof fans in place, it makes a nice bit of detail and brings so much more realism to the loco's.

Of course, you have to be confident enough to try and tackle these mods in the first place. Once I get my build up and running a bit, I may take a breather and try some of these techniques myself. I will start with a cheap runner first rather than running the risk of destroying a new one.

keep them coming though as they are very interesting to see.

cheers

Toto

Great job there Andy. thumbs

I think there's not too much wrong with some of the older models if the price is right, they just take a bit of effort and skill to get them looking right but getting them to perform to today's standards is, I think, a different matter.  Whilst there have been huge strides in model appearance and accuracy, it's really in the mechanics (or electrics, if you prefer) that the modern offerings outshine most of the "models of yore" by such a distance.

I thought the billboard was like that so kids could read it ………………:roll::roll::roll::roll:  

[user=522]Lydford Road[/user] wrote:

 

Hi Toto,I have uploaded a couple of pictures showing what can be done with loco's bought at a reasonable price. This Lima class 47 I picked up for £18. I added bufferbeam detailing and etched roof fans. I have now converted it to DCC.

Hi Andy

The upgrade looks superb and is excellent value given the starting price, but do these old Lima locos run OK?  I assume they have the old pancake type motors and from my experience they are a bit rough compared to current Bachmann and Heljan offerings. I would be interested in hearing your experience of these veterans.

Bob

Personally I prefer the older stuff for running. The more modern stuff does look and run well, of that there is no doubt, but will they still be running as sweetly 40 years from now, like some of the old Triang etc. still do. And of course there is the other problem, the detailing these days is so fine will that in itself stand the test of time on a working layout. I think not, especially amongst some of the younger pursuants of the hobby.

I like the old rolling stock as well. More robust, and often the detail is there (handrails, etc.). I can live with the odd mm deviation from the prototype here and there.

I'm partial to Lima GWR/WR diesel railcars, 25-35% of the cost of the same Hornby model. At that price I don't mind modifying them a bit (or a lot). Those old ringfield motors packed a punch for their size, and with a bit of TLC and a clean they will run smoothly (with a whirr) and go forever (and spare parts are available). They also, like a lot of old motors, run extremely well under DCC. I would like a twinset, given the price of a kit (if and when it comes up, we're talking hen's teeth here) it's cheaper to do a cut and shut at the back. Same with the old Hornby Saint. I had no issues about chopping old Cleveland Court about to get a straight-framed Lady of the Lake version (running on a modified Hornby Castle railroad chassis). And I really do wish I'd never sold my old Hornby 28xx tender drive when the new version was released. Temperamental, fragile (one look and something falls off) and a turnout-shy front pony that needed an awful lot of modification.

Nigel

Novice wrote:

Lydford Road wrote:

 

Hi Toto,I have uploaded a couple of pictures showing what can be done with loco's bought at a reasonable price. This Lima class 47 I picked up for £18. I added bufferbeam detailing and etched roof fans. I have now converted it to DCC.

Hi Andy

The upgrade looks superb and is excellent value given the starting price, but do these old Lima locos run OK?  I assume they have the old pancake type motors and from my experience they are a bit rough compared to current Bachmann and Heljan offerings. I would be interested in hearing your experience of these veterans.

Bob

Hi Bob these loco's do have the old pancake type motor as you suggest. When I changed to DCC I could of discarded all of my old loco's and buy the newer Bachmann & Heljan offerings. But having spent so much time and effort on the loco's I decided to convert them to DCC. Whilst converting them to DCC I also added LED's to the high intensity head lights. I was quite surprised how well they actually ran after converted to DCC, they have good slow speed control. All the locos I have worked on have the extra pick ups in the non motor bogie which helps when going over points. Pancake motors can be a bit hit and miss, but these loco's run well. Maybe the back EMF in the decoder helps with the smooth running. I do  have Heljan class 47's as well in my fleet.
Anyone got any thoughts on the back EMF and running quality of pancake motors??

I have added a couple more photo's below. A light coat of weathering will help to bring out the detail.


Regards
Andy